david lloyd Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Our 2015 Chausson Welcome 717GA is fitted with a CBE PC180-TR control panel that has a flashing indicator when the waste water tank is full. This week it came on for the first time as we often empty the waste tank or use a waste receptacle (see other thread) instead of the fixed tank. I have looked through the CBE manual and the Chausson handbook but can find no mention of when the warning is activated other than when the waste water tank is 'full'. However, I recently discovered that when our cassette toilet indicates it is 'full' it actually has about 7litres of the 17 litre capacity left so I was wondering if the waste water tank would be similar. Does anyone know if the waste water tank full indicator comes on when the tank is actually full or when a certain level has been reached and there is some room left in the tank. It would be useful just to know what, if any, spare capacity there is in case the tank cannot be emptied immediately. The tank is 100 litre capacity. Other than someone knowing this I could do what I did with the cassette toilet and simply fill it with measured amounts of water until the warning light come on but it seems a shame to waste such a large amount of water when someone may know the answer. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Hello........ Any comments, thoughts, observations, advice...abuse? Anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I applaud your green credentials re wasting water. If you lived in the south you could reuse the water (after the water test) to water the garden - it's so hot here that even the grass is starting to turn brown !!! Alternatively, put the used water in a water butt for future use :-D PS. I've got a CBE system (2009 era) but it only shows me how much I have in my waste tank in % terms - I've never seen any flashing red lights, so far. Perhaps I've never let it get into the danger zone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spireite Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 If it indicates the tank is 'full' by flashing then why not just empty it as soon as possible? When it does get to, or close, to the maximum of 100 litres the water will slop around when you are driving and go down the overflow pipe. You may have seen Motorhomes leaving a trail of water behind them and most of the times it's due to an overloaded waste water tank. And carrying around 70,80, 90 or 100 litres of water that isn't required is like having another passenger, in weight, on board. My control panel, different to yours, flashes when the waste water tank is close to maximum and I just go and empty it – when we've washed pots and pans, had showers and general washing the best place for the grey water, sometimes very grey, is down a waste water drain. When my cassette flashes a red light it means it's full – full to the brim – and needs emptying asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Spireite - 2016-09-14 4:34 PM If it indicates the tank is 'full' by flashing then why not just empty it as soon as possible? When it does get to, or close, to the maximum of 100 litres the water will slop around when you are driving and go down the overflow pipe. You may have seen Motorhomes leaving a trail of water behind them and most of the times it's due to an overloaded waste water tank. And carrying around 70,80, 90 or 100 litres of water that isn't required is like having another passenger, in weight, on board. My control panel, different to yours, flashes when the waste water tank is close to maximum and I just go and empty it – when we've washed pots and pans, had showers and general washing the best place for the grey water, sometimes very grey, is down a waste water drain. When my cassette flashes a red light it means it's full – full to the brim – and needs emptying asap. Yes, well, I did ask for responses so thank you Spireite for your observations. And yes, when it is full I would want to empty it but the point I make is that, unlike yours, my toilet cassette light shows full when it is less than 75% full and, as you probably know, the redlight nearly always comes on in the dead of night when it is raining. So, by knowing I have another 25% capacity I need not worry until morning to go and empty it. The same logic applied to the waste tank would mean that I may only have a 75% full tank when panel starts flashing so there is no need to up sticks and go to the Motorhome point just yet - as a matter of course when we are touring I empty the tank at every opportunity - as you say, as soon as possible even before it shows full. So it may be the difference (and in fact was this last trip) between emptying it now or being able to leave it for the next morning when we are due to leave. This is not a case of laziness - after all the tank still needs emptying at some point - but I am a firm believer in the view that if you have a waste tank, of a given capacity, then use it. Most waste tanks have sensors at certain points in the tank which trigger the warning or level lights as the water level reaches it. In the case of my (and most others) fresh water tank, for example, it will show 'full' on the same panel but yet I can put quite a bit more into the tank before it is actually full. This is because the last sensor is not at the top of the tank but some way down. As I said, I would empty the waste tank when full or when leaving the site so I would not be lugging around 70, 80, 90 or 100 litres of waste water. Just as an aside, there is an alternative view about why you so often see a trail of grey water left behind by Motorhomes - it has been known for some people to simply crack open the outlet of their waste tank and let it empty all the way to their next stop instead of using a waste water dump. So thank you for the comments, I do appreciate the feedback but I would still like to know exactly how much waste water is in the tank when the warning light comes on. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Robbo - 2016-09-14 2:48 PM I applaud your green credentials re wasting water. If you lived in the south you could reuse the water (after the water test) to water the garden - it's so hot here that even the grass is starting to turn brown !!! Alternatively, put the used water in a water butt for future use :-D PS. I've got a CBE system (2009 era) but it only shows me how much I have in my waste tank in % terms - I've never seen any flashing red lights, so far. Perhaps I've never let it get into the danger zone ? Thanks Robbo, My CBE panel is a 2015 model so they may have dispensed with the % full facility you have which is why it is a little misleading, I may have to do the fill test but although it was 30 degrees here yesterday, it has been raining all day so the garden doesn't need the water and the water butt is full! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 david lloyd - 2016-09-14 5:56 PM Just as an aside, there is an alternative view about why you so often see a trail of grey water left behind by Motorhomes - it has been known for some people to simply crack open the outlet of their waste tank and let it empty all the way to their next stop instead of using a waste water dump David You are absolutelty right David - I too have seen mamy a van trailing grey water from the TAP, not from an overflow, and funnily enough the wet patches on roads always seem worse near club sites on a busy day! I don't see any other way of testing your tank capacity theory than by filling it and chucking the water away - it's only a one orf afer all!. At least you will not only have a better idea of the actual capacity you will also know that any overflow and pipework works OK! Unless you are very lucky I suspect that with your experience you may already know that warning lights, tank guages etc can at best be misleading and at worst be very misleading!! I do so agree that knowing you have 'spare' capacity in the loo is very comforting - especially when miles from a site in the dead of a wet and windy night - or after a heavy evening meal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Hi David Have pondered this issue also in the past. Having had the same system on a couple of PVC's I found the reported "capacity" of the waste tank via the waste water indicator a very approximate system at best. When you consider that the same waste water indicator can be fitted to a whole range of different shaped tanks and not just purely rectangular you begin to realise that any report is a very vague indicator. What I have done is to allow the tank to fill with waste until the waste water indicator signals tank full and then measure the contents as you empty it. Knowing the design capacity of the tank you then have a good idea of what the tank full indicator is telling you. Parking the vehicle on slightly sloping ground will further defeat you in knowing what capacity is left once the waste water indicator has activated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 15, 2016 Author Share Posted September 15, 2016 Thanks Grahamw - sensibly that's the reverse of filling the tank with clean water so may be a better way of calculating the indicated 'full' level. I have a 20 litre waste receptacle so may do that next time we are away long enough to fill the tank. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 David My 2015 Rapido 640F also has a CBE-made electrical system using the PC180 control-panel and Rapido’s User Manual describes the panel’s waste-water tank warning light as follows: “Waste water level alarm When the symbol flashes, this indicates that the waste water tank is almost full and approximately 80% of its volume has been filled." CBE’s description of the PC180 system can be found here http://www.cbe.it/en/pc180/ and it will be noted that it includes “Screw probes for waste water tank”. Essentially, a couple of screws are inserted (one above the other) through the waste-water tank’s side and when the liquid within the tank rises so that both screws are covered, this triggers the warning light. As Graham has rightly pointed out, the shape/capacity of a motorhome’s waste-water tank will vary (often dramatically) from make to make and model to model, and it’s up to the motorhome manufacturer to decide where on the tank to fit the screw-probes. Consequently, there’s no guarantee that the '80%-full' warning advised for my Rapido will exactly apply to your Chausson. I haven’t experimented to prove that the warning light on my Rapido’s PC180 panel actually does begin flashing when the motorhome’s 90-litre waste-water tank is 80%-full, though I do know that the light will flash when the tank has a good deal of water in it as it happened once when I had delayed emptying the tank. It should be simple for you to check the accuracy of your Chausson’s warning light by emptying the waste-water tank completely then pouring measured quantities of water down the kitchen sink until the light-symbol flashes. Once you’ve established at that point how much water you’ve put in, you could then continue to add water until the tank overflows. That way you’d know how many litres of water will go into the tank before the light flashes and how many more litres will subsequently go in before the tank overflows. This should provide a greater degree of accuracy than, say, finding that 70 litres of water causes the light to flash and assuming (in your case) that another 30 litres will go in before overflowing occurs. As Graham also highlights, if the motorhome is not level, this will very likely cause the warning light to flash ‘early’ or ‘late’, but logically a motorhome manufacturer (even Chausson!) should be expected to have the warning light trigger (on a largish-capacity tank) at around 70%-80% of maximum tank-volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I sometimes think that we over complicate our lives and, being a simple guy, I like to make things easier for myself not more complex. We just empty the tank whenever we get fresh water as the empty point is often close enough to the fresh water tap to do both simultaneously so in effect it takes no time at all. In all my many years in motorhomes I doubt I have looked at the waste tank indicator more than a couple of times. It does however pay to know how long both tanks last in normal use so that you can estimate when to empty/fill and when you can last another day but this has more to do with how you use the van than it does with the dubious electronics and can quickly be learnt by trial and error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 Thank you Derek for the informed reply. I will do the exercise in topping up to see when the light comes on and how much more I can get in. As Tracker also says, it's usually the case that I empty it either when filling with fresh water, as we are leaving a place or just as we come across a suitable emptying point on an aire for instance. But, as happened a couple of weeks ago, I can foresee a situation when that doesn't happen and the light will start flashing (it was after doing the evening washing up) which means going off to the emptying point there and then unless you are sure there is room for the morning ablutions. As it turns out we were leaving next morning so would have emptied it then but just didn't want to take the risk so did it straight away. I'm fairly sure there will be some spare capacity once the light comes on but it is just knowing exactly what that is to be in the safe side. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Well, an interesting result. The indicator light comes on with just 70 litres of liquid in the tank which then took another 30 before it overflowed. The drive does have a slight fall but this is toward the side where the overflow is located so the figures won't be far out. I now know that should events conspire to bring the warning light on after supper I don't have to rush to empty the tank and have some (plenty) spare capacity. Thank you to everyone who contributed. I hope the thread will of been of interest to others too. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 As far as I understand, the CBE PC 180 system is described in some quarters as "entry-level". I really don't understand why MH manufacturers fit this product when for only a little more they could install a much more informative panel. My CBE PC 200 panel gives the percentage amount left in the tank for both fresh and grey water. So far, this has been very accurate - I'm able to dip both tanks to confirm the readout on the control panel. As we all know, the available payload on some vans is less than desirable. It then becomes even more important to be able to accurately monitor the amount of water left in the tanks. Perhaps the CBE PC 180 is more sophisticated than I first thought, but the presence of flashing lights doesn't fill me with much confidence. Give me dials and meaningful gauges any day. I rest my case :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Hi Robbo, mine is a 2015 model and does have some more detailed information on fresh water level and both engine and leisure battery state - all three have an eight bar led readout that goes from red to green - still not absolutely ideal but I have got used to them but also don't understand why the waste tank didn't have at least the same facility. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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