Dave3 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Hello guys, Thank you for your responses, Been doing some research today and like the u-shaped living area layout. We've decided that we need at least a 4/5 birth with at least 4 belts. one of the models that fit this criterea is the Fiat Ducato Lunar Roadstar 620, which seems very reasonably prices compared to others and possibly a good starter-home. I wondered if there was a reason for this? Again all feedback most welcome - your help so far has been invaluable Best wishes Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Are you sure it has 4 seatbelts? The 620s I've seen are 4 berth but only had two seatbelts as the layout was a u-shaped. It isn't uncommon to find motorhomes that have more berths than seat belts. Lunar ceased making motorhomes about the time the recession hit and started importing ones from Belgium, badged as Lunar. The motorhomes Lunar built had a good reputation, the ones imported form Belgium were of a lower quality and price. I think their current motorhomes are still built abroad with Lunar remaining a caravan builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Dave, also be aware that some Motorhomes (particularly with rear lounges) may have been retrofitted with lap seat belts but these are not at all safe. In fact, they can cause much more serious injury in the event of an accident. Usually they are fitted by simply being attached to the seat base rather than to a separate steel frame and again offer little or no protection in the event of an accident. Unfortunately, it wasn't uncommon for older Motorhomes to have unbelted seats although there were some models that offered this facility on family vans - so hope ou can find one that meets your needs. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave3 Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Many thanks John R - very helpful - we were not sure about the seatbelts to be honest and think you are right. The search continues - thanks for your time Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave3 Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Thanks David llloyd - didn't realise the retofiting was an issue - very good to learn this - will add this to our questions when buying. I really love the feedback you are all providing - very, very helpful to us newbies Best wishes Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Glossop caravans have a van which has 6 belted seats. Can't remember the make but saw it yesterday. Didn't have a U shaped lounge though, don't think you will get that layout with 6 belted seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Randonneur - 2016-09-11 12:26 PM Glossop caravans have a van which has 6 belted seats. Can't remember the make but saw it yesterday. Didn't have a U shaped lounge though, don't think you will get that layout with 6 belted seats. Most likely to get 4 belts with a dinette layout . Would need to be big van to have 6 seat belts, which may include lap ones. (not ideal) Also the weight can be an issue with 6 passengers luggage! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 2 adults plus two children will add up to a fairly high payload requirement. I assume the children are school age or below, so the van will mostly be used in school holidays and at weekends? But, where might you go, and for how long? I also assume you are working, so, unless you are a teacher/lecturer, I guess about 3 weeks will be top whack? My point is that children grow, and also “need” tons of stuff just to survive. All this, plus the irrelevancies (until they get cold or hungry!) of food and clothing, will add up to quite a payload, which I suspect will push your van toward its maximum permitted weight if you are limited to driving 3.5 tonne vehicles. So, as advised by Keith above, first check what your driving licence permits you to drive. I would advise against getting too sold on layouts until you know what payload you will need for the longest trips you envisage doing. As you have no previous experience of this kind of thing this will not be easy, and I would suggest you “Google” Vicarious Books and then find a book called Go Motorhoming Europe, and buy a copy. I think you will find it a great help. It will answer many of your immediate questions, and a good few more that you haven’t yet thought of. Once you have the necessary payload issue reasonably sorted, you should be able shortlist the vans that are technically feasible, and from those you should be able to find a layout that you find agreeable. My only further caveat on this is to check very carefully how the payload allowances have been calculated, as not all manufacturers calculate on the same basis, and vary few dealers seem to fully understand this issue. That book will also give you good advice on this topic, but do pay attention to the amount of fresh water included in the calculation. It used to be 90% of the tank capacity, but over the past few years some manufactures have taken to declaring payload with only about 12 litres of water on board. So, fill that 100 litre tank before you set off, and you get instant overload! Very misleading, IMO - especially as the fresh water allowance used in payload calculations is seldom prominently displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Now that Dave3 has started looking at motorhomes, it is important for him to reconcile his driving licence entitlement and the likely weight of a motorhome for 2 adults, 2 children and 2 dogs. Keithl mentioned weights in response to Dave3's first post. Whilst in the 90s I could motorhome with my wife, 2 children and a dog in a motorhome tipping the scale at 3300kg, motorhome weights have got heavier as vehicle safety has improved. I'm not convinced Dave3 will be able to motorhome with his family under 3500kg without significant compromises. In the past we have provided guidance for families seeking to motorhome and stay within the 3500kg licence entitlement so they know the compromises. It would be useful to know Dave3's licence entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 PJay - 2016-09-11 3:56 PM Randonneur - 2016-09-11 12:26 PM Glossop caravans have a van which has 6 belted seats. Can't remember the make but saw it yesterday. Didn't have a U shaped lounge though, don't think you will get that layout with 6 belted seats. Most likely to get 4 belts with a dinette layout . Would need to be big van to have 6 seat belts, which may include lap ones. (not ideal) Also the weight can be an issue with 6 passengers luggage! PJay The one we saw yesterday had 6 - 3 point seat belts, 2 in cab and 4 in dinette area, as I said I don't think they will get a U shaped lounge with 6 belted seats. A Friend of ours has a Romahome R40 which has 6 3 point seat belts but this has side settees that turn into 2 dinettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allen Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 We have a 2015 Autotrail Apache 700 with rear U shaped Lounge, Dinette mid van with 4 full seat belts, factory fitted making 6 in all. Van is advertised as 6 berth with 2 at the back in the U shaped lounge, 2 over the cab and 2 in the dinette although I think personally the dinette is a 1.5 berth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 John Allen - 2016-09-11 10:03 PM We have a 2015 Autotrail Apache 700 with rear U shaped Lounge, Dinette mid van with 4 full seat belts, factory fitted making 6 in all. Van is advertised as 6 berth with 2 at the back in the U shaped lounge, 2 over the cab and 2 in the dinette although I think personally the dinette is a 1.5 berth. Which somewhat makes the point about driving licence entitlements. The 2016 Apache 700 has an MAM of 4,250kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Brian Kirby - 2016-09-11 10:20 PM John Allen - 2016-09-11 10:03 PM We have a 2015 Autotrail Apache 700 with rear U shaped Lounge, Dinette mid van with 4 full seat belts, factory fitted making 6 in all. Van is advertised as 6 berth with 2 at the back in the U shaped lounge, 2 over the cab and 2 in the dinette although I think personally the dinette is a 1.5 berth. Which somewhat makes the point about driving licence entitlements. The 2016 Apache 700 has an MAM of 4,250kg. Exactly what I discovered, most of the vehicles with 6 berth, 6 seat belts and rear U lounge are 4000kg. As with our Swift Sundance 630L. This layout is also found in the other variants of Bessacar, Ace etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewad Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Dave3 - 2016-09-11 12:18 AM Hello guys, Thank you for your responses, Been doing some research today and like the u-shaped living area layout. We've decided that we need at least a 4/5 birth with at least 4 belts. one of the models that fit this criterea is the Fiat Ducato Lunar Roadstar 620, which seems very reasonably prices compared to others and possibly a good starter-home. I wondered if there was a reason for this? Again all feedback most welcome - your help so far has been invaluable Best wishes Dave My swift kontiki 645 has 4 seat belts and is labelled as 5 berth with U shaped lounge weight 4250 (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave3 Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Many thanks Brian - will explore payload issue - think we are moving to a smaller layout already to ensure weight issues are not insurmountable. Seen 100s this weekend which has refocused our search around 4-belts and four berth. Not so fussed on u-shape layout now - like bunks but hard to find. Really like the Hymers but mostly LHD. How did you know I was a teacher (LOL). Intention is to explore UK first 2017 and move to Europe in 2018. Less likely that the children will come around UK but may fancy a bit of mediteranean sun. I have a license pre 1997 so think I can drive up to 3.5t. Cleartly something we will need to investigate pay load further - on the case for the book. Thanks Will update further as we advance our escape project Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewad Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Pre 97 I believe you can drive up to 7.5 tons ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Thewad - 2016-09-12 9:26 PM Pre 97 I believe you can drive up to 7.5 tons ? In the majority of cases yes, but certain medical conditions restrict to 3.5 tonnes. Check licence to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildi Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 AliB - 2016-09-12 10:05 AM Brian Kirby - 2016-09-11 10:20 PM John Allen - 2016-09-11 10:03 PM We have a 2015 Autotrail Apache 700 with rear U shaped Lounge, Dinette mid van with 4 full seat belts, factory fitted making 6 in all. Van is advertised as 6 berth with 2 at the back in the U shaped lounge, 2 over the cab and 2 in the dinette although I think personally the dinette is a 1.5 berth. Which somewhat makes the point about driving licence entitlements. The 2016 Apache 700 has an MAM of 4,250kg. Exactly what I discovered, most of the vehicles with 6 berth, 6 seat belts and rear U lounge are 4000kg. As with our Swift Sundance 630L. This layout is also found in the other variants of Bessacar, Ace etc. We have a six berth for just to two plus the dog but we wanted the space, regarding the weight, ours is a 3850kg but the extra 350kg is on the front axle so you have to be very careful on how you load it bearing in mind we have a large garage. So easy to think you can just fill it up but you can't. As for the beds, we have the large double on the overcab but if some one was sleeping in the dinette double, the ones in the overcab can't put the ladder in place to get down for a call of nature. It's good to say it can sleep 6 but the practicality it's better for 4 as it only has four belted seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave3 Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Hi Brian and others - thanks for this discussion about pay load - I have a license that permits C1, C1E, D1, and D1E what's my limit? Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 It's so easy to buy what you think is the right van and then discover that it does not quite do what you want it to do, then changing vans can get very expensive, so it really pays to know what sort of camping floats your boat before buying. I would be inclined to suggest hiring a van for a weekend before buying just to see how it works out in the real world? Some users enjoy nothing more than site sitting and facility use and a big van is ideal for this, often replacing a car and caravan, whereas others prefer to tour and explore and a compact van does this much better and makes it easier to get out of most of the tight spots that one finds when exploring. The compromise is always space, but get the right layout for your kind of use and space is not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 mildi - 2016-09-13 2:03 PM AliB - 2016-09-12 10:05 AM Brian Kirby - 2016-09-11 10:20 PM John Allen - 2016-09-11 10:03 PM We have a 2015 Autotrail Apache 700 with rear U shaped Lounge, Dinette mid van with 4 full seat belts, factory fitted making 6 in all. Van is advertised as 6 berth with 2 at the back in the U shaped lounge, 2 over the cab and 2 in the dinette although I think personally the dinette is a 1.5 berth. Which somewhat makes the point about driving licence entitlements. The 2016 Apache 700 has an MAM of 4,250kg. Exactly what I discovered, most of the vehicles with 6 berth, 6 seat belts and rear U lounge are 4000kg. As with our Swift Sundance 630L. This layout is also found in the other variants of Bessacar, Ace etc. We have a six berth for just to two plus the dog but we wanted the space, regarding the weight, ours is a 3850kg but the extra 350kg is on the front axle so you have to be very careful on how you load it bearing in mind we have a large garage. So easy to think you can just fill it up but you can't. As for the beds, we have the large double on the overcab but if some one was sleeping in the dinette double, the ones in the overcab can't put the ladder in place to get down for a call of nature. It's good to say it can sleep 6 but the practicality it's better for 4 as it only has four belted seats Tracker is absolutely right about thinking you have the right van all figured out but then finding out later it is just not right for some reason - we do have prior history in that regard! And, as mildi points out, just having a higher MTPLM does not necessarily mean you will have a good user payload to cope with your needs. As an example, we changed last year from a panel van conversion which gave us all the payload we needed on a 3500kg chassis to the current van - a Chasson coachbuilt which has all the right specification including a large rear garage, but again on the 3500kg 'light' chassis. This is a point to remember in your quest for payload as it is possible to upgrade a Motorhome chassis from the usual 3500 kg to a higher level, often just as a paper exercise. Shortly after getting our van, and weighing it with us and all our travelling necessities on board, we found that the Motorhome was overweight by 350 kg. as it is a 'light' chassis the paper exercise to upgrade would only take us to an overall weight of 3650 kg - still short of the required 3850. Worse, the extra 150kgs did not go on the rear axle which was 240kgs overweight and would still have been overweight (it's important to weigh the whole Motorhome and both axles separately) so would have been of no benefit. So we approached SVTech who specialise in uprating chassis weights and had to fit air suspension to the rear axle plus two higher load rated tyres. This was done and the necessary paperwork submitted to DVLA to register the Motorhome with the higher revenue weight of 3850kgs but, importantly, a rear axle limit increased to 2240kgs. Not exactly a cheap way if going about things at about £1200 all in but well worth it as we had bought the van, it had everything we wanted in terms of spec and layout but was useless without the higher overall and rear axle weights. The only alternative would have been to sell and change again. Take note though that if you find a Motorhome that is suitable In all other respects but you do need to increase the weight limits (as you do have the licence to drive up to 7500kg) then check it is on the 'heavy' or 'maxi' chassis. This chassis can normally be upgraded to 3850 as a paper exercise (unlike my 'light' chassis which could only be taken to 3650 without the modifications) and sometimes to 4250kg dependent on make/model. I know it all sounds a bit daunting at the outset but, once you have got your head around Motorhome weight limits and what would be sufficient to meet your needs, you will be well on the way to making the right (less expensive) decision. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave3 Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Thanks everyone - there is a lot here to digest - the books Brian recommended are coming this week and I will explore paylaod in some depth when I have this information and your ideas in one place. Sure seems a lot harder than I first imagined - I thought it woulkd be just like buying a car LOL Thanks again PS Looking at at a Rimor Katamorano and a Adria Coral 670SK this weekend - any issus from your experience nothing on the reviews on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 In general terms things to look out for are - continental style half dinettes that are OK to travel in but not very comfortable for sitting and relaxing, fixed beds that are very narrow and have cut away ends, washrooms that look OK but when you get inside with the door shut there is not enough space to do what needs to be done, kitchens without proper cooking or washing up facilities and a lack of work surface, steps in the middle of the van. Some or all of these may not matter to you but remember that, with a few exceptions, someone disliked the van enough to part company with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.