MOT advisory... offside steering boot damp but not leaking..!

[frank shepherd]

We are about to collect 2006 flash Chausson from a reputable dealer... on line we have seen the result of the MOT.. above was noted, all other aspects seem okay ,fiat ducato 22kmiles genuine, I will ask the dealer about this but how concerned do I need to be...

[Robbo]

I suppose there are 2 scenarios:

 

1) It's not actually leaking but the internal grease is migrating through the old and possibly perished rubber gaiter.

 

2). There is something leaking onto the rubber gaiter from above, possibly oil from the top of the engine, such as the camshaft cover.

 

I assume when they say "steering boot" they mean the flexible rubber gaiter either end of the steering rack.

 

Normally, it's the CV rubber gaiter on the driveshaft that is more prone to wear and tear and potential leaking of the lubricant.

 

I always treat a notification as something that needs to be attended to but is not currently a safety issue.

 

I therefore suggest you get the dealer to remedy the situation or negotiate a reduction in price so you can get it fixed at a later date. Suggest you get a quote for the work before visiting the dealer. I wouldn't think it's a very expensive job.

[frank shepherd]

thanks for input so far. I have mentioned my concern to the dealer and he wants to assure me that it is quite a common item...Okay I can accept that if it so, but I will monitor it and within the warranty time, should I have further concerns I'm confident it would be sorted...I have to mainly look at it as a safety issue first, and a cost issue secondary....not to myself but to them...may have more replies by the end of the day eh? *-)

[Keithl]

Frank,

 

A word of warning - do not presume that an oil leak will be fixed under warranty!

 

The 'Free' warranty given when we bought our MH had a clause that 'Leaks' where only covered when accompanied by a mechanical failure!

 

We had a leaking steering rack and the dealer said fix under warranty, the warranty said 'No' and pointed us to the clause so it was back to the dealer and threats of Trading Standards to get it fixed.

 

My suggestion, insist the dealer replaces the boot before you take delivery as you may find it very hard to get them to pay up later.

 

Keith.

[Mike88]

If the dealer is quibbling over a known fault what will happen when/if something more serious is found such as expensive water ingress issues?

[frank shepherd]

The warranty is with the actual dealer & not an insurance based policy. We have spoken to previous customers and they have said that their experience with them has been nothing but very positive..whatever the issue they've encountered! ...sounds very much far fetched right? We will be going to dealer early next week to view over the MH before we actually settle the balance. I know it's lots of money and there is always a risk with any vehicle and of course any dealer however I am reasonably 'savvy' with my rights and will not be afraid to use them, hopefully, won't come to it!

 

[Robbo]

The OP's future van is what could be classified as low mileage, about 2000 miles per year.

 

In such situations it is quite common for the original tyres to have not been replaced.

 

Suggest the OP checks the date of manufacture of the tyres. This is a 4 digit code on the sidewall ie. 4905 would mean 49th week of 2005.

 

I replace my tyres between 5 and 7 years as recommended, irrespective of the tread depth. The last thing I want is a sidewall blowout because of cracks in the sidewall due to ageing of the rubber compound.

 

I suspect that vehicles left unused for long periods might be more susceptible to ageing of the tyres, especially if one side is exposed to the sun more than the other.

 

A new set of rubber will be around £500, so something to check.

[aandncaravan]

We agree with Keith about getting the Steering Boot replaced before collection, regardless of the type of warranty.

Once Rubber starts, it goes very quickly. Last thing you want is dirt/grit in a Steering Rack.

Waiting may mean it 'fails' during Winter time when you also risk Salt ingress. Possibly resulting in Rack Wear/failure further down the line out of warranty?

 

Robbo also gives good advice on the tyres, 22k is very low miles for a 2006?

That might also mean the Cam Belt has not been attended to, if the servicing has been by mileage, not elapsed time?

 

Would strongly advise you get the Brakes stripped down, and rebuilt with new pads (at least at the front) as the pads tend to seize in the Caliper. Rare for the Pistons in the Calipers to seize, but common in low mileage vehicles for the Pads to rust into their sliders leading to overheating of the pad material and degraded brakes.

Brambles has a great post somewhere showing crumbling Brake Pads he removed that look close to complete Brake failure?

 

One 52 plate, 17,000 mile Transit we did the Brakes on resulted in the owner returning a month later to remark on how much better the Brakes were, how much better the vehicle drove and the reduction in fuel consumed. That vehicle came to us only a week after it passed an MOT, yet they had not noted anything amiss with the Brakes.

 

If the Dealer is doing the Steering Boots (suggest you examine the other carefully?) replacing the front pads would not cost them much extra, so cost effective for the dealer to both bits of work now?

 

 

It is possible, although less likely, that the Steering Boot may be leaking power steering fluid rather than grease as a result of internal seal failure, dependent on the base vehicle?

Because resolving this type of issue might be a bit expensive, better to get it done now rather than later?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisD]

Hi Guys

I have a 2007 compass avant-garde on a Peugeot 2.2.

At the last MOT I had the same advisory. The garage who do the work for me are exemplary.

They are honest and very professional and deserved to be named. Swift Motors Worthing.

They have suggested that in the future this could require a new steering rack.

 

I have no reason to disbelieve them as in the past I had a fuel gauge failure and after taking our camper to several dealers and being told that the entire instrument cluster would require replacement costing circa £750/£800 this firm said wait........ we will give it another try.

 

I have to say that on reflection I have been staggered by the sheer lack of honesty of the number of dealers that we asked for advice from and quotes for the work.

 

The MOT was due so I instructed Swift Motors to proceed no matter what and on collecting the Vehicle and expecting a bill for around £800 I was presented with a bill of ..........wait for it ........ £50 including mot.

 

So if the steering boot is damp and may lead to a new steering rack don't be surprised.

 

Chris

[frank shepherd]

Robbo - 2016-09-16 10:12 PM

Thanks for the knowledge , however whilst I am aware that the term "boot" can refer to "tyre" , in this instance it's not that component. I know and understand where you are coming from and actually in this case I have been not only the newish tyres fitted all round but a very well documented service history / schedule for the vehicle and so far all stacks up ! Regards and happy motoring...Frank

 

The OP's future van is what could be classified as low mileage, about 2000 miles per year.

 

In such situations it is quite common for the original tyres to have not been replaced.

 

Suggest the OP checks the date of manufacture of the tyres. This is a 4 digit code on the sidewall ie. 4905 would mean 49th week of 2005.

 

I replace my tyres between 5 and 7 years as recommended, irrespective of the tread depth. The last thing I want is a sidewall blowout because of cracks in the sidewall due to ageing of the rubber compound.

 

I suspect that vehicles left unused for long periods might be more susceptible to ageing of the tyres, especially if one side is exposed to the sun more than the other.

 

A new set of rubber will be around £500, so something to check.

[frank shepherd]

Pleased for all the advice and I believe I have the matter in hand with my supplying dealer. Re brakes, steering rack and of course tyres, all appears to be satisfactory..

I will let forum know early happenings as we soon collect and will have opportunity to take up any issues with the vehicle and the dealer should any occur...many thanks

 

[John52]

Robbo - 2016-09-16 10:12 PM

 

The OP's future van is what could be classified as low mileage, about 2000 miles per year.

 

In such situations it is quite common for the original tyres to have not been replaced.

 

Suggest the OP checks the date of manufacture of the tyres. This is a 4 digit code on the sidewall ie. 4905 would mean 49th week of 2005.

 

I replace my tyres between 5 and 7 years as recommended, irrespective of the tread depth. The last thing I want is a sidewall blowout because of cracks in the sidewall due to ageing of the rubber compound.

 

I suspect that vehicles left unused for long periods might be more susceptible to ageing of the tyres, especially if one side is exposed to the sun more than the other.

 

A new set of rubber will be around £500, so something to check.

 

Sidewall blowouts occur due to failure of the supporting cords, they don't depend on the rubber compound for their strength!

Tyre dealers may advise you to replace your tyres every 5-7 years, but then they are in business to sell tyres.*-)

It is totally unrealistic to expect a second hand van dealer to replace tyres just because they are 5-7 years old.

[John52]

aandncaravan - 2016-09-16 11:25 PM

 

 

 

Would strongly advise you get the Brakes stripped down,

 

It is possible, although less likely, that the Steering Boot may be leaking power steering fluid rather than grease

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you posting on the right thread?

The OP says the van has passed its MOT with no suggestion of anything wrong with the brakes, and the tester says the steering boot is NOT leaking

 

[Keithl]

John52 - 2016-09-17 10:52 AM

 

Tyre dealers may advise you to replace your tyres every 5-7 years, but then they are in business to sell tyres.*-)

It is totally unrealistic to expect a second hand van dealer to replace tyres just because they are 5-7 years old.

 

Continental recommend replacing tyres at a maximum age of 10 years...

 

"Tyre service life recommendation

Continental is unaware of any technical data that

supports a specific tyre age for removal from

service. However, as with other members of the

tyre and automotive industries, Continental

recommends that all tyres (including spare

tyres) that were manufactured more than ten

(10) years previous be replaced with new tyres,

even when tyres appear to be usable from their

external appearance and if the tread depth may

have not reached the minimum wear out depth. "

 

Quoted from page 117 of Conti Technical data brochure here...

 

http://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/681286/30cec2cae7fa004e1eae3b0f560e449f/download-technical-databook-data.pdf

 

Keith.

[John52]

Keithl - 2016-09-17 11:00 AM

 

Continental recommend replacing tyres at a maximum age of 10 years...

 

Keith.

 

and what are Continental in business to sell ;-)

VOSA are not in business to sell anything and they don't put any age limit on tyres, just a visual inspection, which these tyres have passed. So I really don't think we can demand a second hand van dealer replaces them.

[Keithl]

John52 - 2016-09-17 11:09 AM

 

Keithl - 2016-09-17 11:00 AM

 

Continental recommend replacing tyres at a maximum age of 10 years...

 

Keith.

 

and what are Continental in business to sell ;-)

VOSA are not in business to sell anything and they don't put any age limit on tyres, just a visual inspection, which these tyres have passed. So I really don't think we can demand a second hand van dealer replaces them.

 

John,

 

I was not saying that Frank had to demand new tyres on his recently purchased MH, I was countering your often quoted statement that "Tyre dealers may advise you to replace your tyres every 5-7 years" with true evidence from a tyre manufacturer on what they recommend.

Whether you follow their recommendation or not is up to you.

 

Keith.

[John52]

Keithl - 2016-09-17 12:39 PM

 

John,

 

I was not saying that Frank had to demand new tyres on his recently purchased MH, I was countering your often quoted statement that "Tyre dealers may advise you to replace your tyres every 5-7 years" with true evidence from a tyre manufacturer on what they recommend.

Whether you follow their recommendation or not is up to you.

 

Keith.

 

Keith.

Sorry if it looked like I was having a go at you, that certainly was not my intention. I should have put the bit about replaciing tyres in another post to make that clear

[John52]

frank shepherd - 2016-09-16 7:53 AM

MOT advisory... offside steering boot damp but not leaking..!

We are about to collect 2006 flash Chausson from a reputable dealer... on line we have seen the result of the MOT.. above was noted, all other aspects seem okay ,fiat ducato 22kmiles genuine, I will ask the dealer about this but how concerned do I need to be...

Perhaps we could get the thread back on track by going to the OP original post. Nothing to do with tyres or brakes which all seem to be OK.

[aandncaravan]

John52 - 2016-09-17 10:59 AM

 

aandncaravan - 2016-09-16 11:25 PM

 

 

 

Would strongly advise you get the Brakes stripped down,

 

It is possible, although less likely, that the Steering Boot may be leaking power steering fluid rather than grease

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you posting on the right thread?

The OP says the van has passed its MOT with no suggestion of anything wrong with the brakes, and the tester says the steering boot is NOT leaking

 

 

John52, If you read the thread it says that when vehicles do very little mileage over a long period of time the Brake Pads often seize in the sliders.

We also stated that one vehicle came to us AFTER an MOT had declared them perfect, yet the brakes were binding badly. On stripping them down the front pads were breaking up.

Clearly poor, yet the vehicle drove ok apart from being sluggish.

 

When we reported our findings to the owner, he didn't believe us and came in to inspect the work. We showed him the pads we had removed from one side and asked him to rotate the Road wheel on the other side as the vehicle was still up in the air.

When he was unable to rotate the wheel, he accepted our diagnosis.

 

We think his visit a few weeks later to say how much more sprightly the van was and the brakes so much better, was his way of apologising.

 

Probably half the low mileage Motorhomes in for a Engine/Chassis service had binding brakes, yet the owners thought they drove fine.

 

After the brakes were stripped and reassembled, they all reported a big improvement.

 

About half the vehicles we 'brake stripped' had badly degraded Pads with signs of overheating, crazing, crumbling, etc. Just like those in the photos in Brambles post we referred to.

 

Strangely enough, only this afternoon someone has updated a post about disintegrated Brake pads on a MH that has only done 320 miles since the MOT!!

See :

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Brake-Pad-Failure/41088/

Brambles post on his disintegrating Pads is only viewable from that same post.

 

Just because the MOT says they are ok, most definitely does not mean they are.

 

 

While the Steering Boot may not have excess signs of lost fluid, but if the outside is 'Damp' it has most likely leaked from inside the Rack, dependent on the base vehicle chassis. Think about it, if the Boot is Damp, unless we have a magic fluid involved, it HAS leaked from somewhere, irrespective of the MOT testers terminology.

Such a diagnosis might be made if the dealers technicians cleaned off any excess prior to MOT, for example?

 

If the Dealer is MOT testing 'their own sales', where is the incentive to be really strict with that MOT?

If they take their vehicles elsewhere for the MOT, presumably putting a lot of business that Garages way, then again, might that Garage then be tempted to 'turn failures to advisories'?

 

 

[John52]

aandncaravan - 2016-09-17 8:48 PM

John52, If you read the thread it says that when vehicles do very little mileage over a long period of time the Brake Pads often seize in the sliders.

Which thread?

This thread is about a damp steering boot

The only person who has mentioned Brakes is you.

[John52]

frank shepherd - 2016-09-16 7:53 AM

MOT advisory... offside steering boot damp but not leaking.

....all other aspects seem okay ....

I don't think anyone can say where the fluid is coming from without seeing it.

I could talk about tyres, brakes, fuel gauges or whatever, but since they all seem to be ok I don't think it would help.

[aandncaravan]

Yes in this thread above we wrote,

"common in low mileage vehicles for the Pads to rust into their sliders leading to overheating of the pad material and degraded brakes".

 

As the vehicle in question was low mileage, just 22k in 10 years, we tried to advise that the leaking boot, sorry Damp Boot, might not be the only issue.

 

And that is my point, what you might think "seems" ok and what can lead to a big bill later are often very different.

My interpretation of the original Post, was not just about a Steering Boot, but is the OP likely to get bigger bills down the line?

Several people responded, with very helpful advice on things they suggested he might consider.

 

I think you should read the above again as we DON'T say where the fluid came from, we use words, like MAYBE, MIGHT, etc.

 

For example "LIKELY leaked from inside".

 

 

 

 

[John52]

aandncaravan - 2016-09-17 9:29 PM

 

Yes in this thread above we wrote,

"common in low mileage vehicles for the Pads to rust into their sliders leading to overheating of the pad material and degraded brakes".

 

As the vehicle in question was low mileage, just 22k in 10 years, we tried to advise that the leaking boot, sorry Damp Boot, might not be the only issue.

 

And that is my point, what might "seem" ok and what can lead to a big bill later are often very different.

My interpretation of the original Post, was not just about a Boot, but is he likely to get bigger bills down the line?

 

Good advice I am sure.

I merely suggest your good advice about brakes would be better in the thread about brakes. :-D

[aandncaravan]

John52, I have just found Brambles post of some while ago. He starts off saying his local garage checked his front brakes. Few weeks later had it MOT'ed and made a point of asking for the Brakes to be specifically targeted DURING the MOT. The reports came back as good in both cases.

He then had the brakes stripped to find they were not far off complete failure.

 

Brambles writes,

"My Motorhome was reshod couple of weeks ago and I specifically asked the centre to check my front brakes while the wheels were off. They reported the brakes where fine. Good! I thought. Spent enough on my 11 year old Motorhome this year doing repairs.

Took it in for MOT last Monday and again asked MOT chap if he could specifically inspect my front brake pads. Why you might ask when I have been told already they are fine. Well My reason is my brakes failed 5 years ago when 6 years old from pads breaking up. So I really wanted to know the 5 year old pads were OK even though having only done 22K miles. " Brakes are fine."

I had a gut feeling about these pads and decided I would check myself. I think the picture attached says it all. 5 years old 22K miles".

 

 

Full text and photos here :

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Brake-pads-and-MOT-Ducato/35154/

 

 

I think that re-inforces the point that just because something goes through an MOT, doesn't mean it is either sound or safe. You would have to be exceptionally naïve to think it might?

 

Sorry you don't think it is relevant to this thread, but we think the potential bills can be very big on low mileage older vehicles. Especially if the brakes fail totally as reported above.

Low mileage on an older vehicle sometimes lures the buyer into thinking he is buying a 'no trouble' vehicle. That often isn't the case, seen it again and again. In some cases certain aspects can generate higher bills than a normal mileage vehicle.

Hence going to significant trouble to advise the OP.

 

The OP clearly was concerned about costs, both long and short term, with this vehicle. Ourselves and the other responders above were trying to advise on how to reduce/avoid them.

 

 

Sorry Sir, but not sure it is your place to say where anyone should post? >:-)

 

[John52]

aandncaravan - 2016-09-17 10:31 PM

 

Sorry Sir, but not sure it is your place to say where anyone should post? >:-)

Don't get your dander up :D

You offer good advice on brakes, but its probably wasted when you post it on a thread about steering boots, because someone looking for advice on brakes might not look there.

So I merely suggest you post your good advice on brakes in the thread about brakes, where somebody looking for advice about brakes is more likely to find it . :D