Violet1956 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I’ve tried to read as much as I can from existing threads so as not to bore anyone with the same old query. As there are so many threads and I haven’t found the exact answer I am looking for I wonder whether anyone could advise. Apologies in advance if there is already an answer deep in the vaults to the following- We are intending to travel through Germany next March. Our van (Early 2006 pre- x250 Ducato) is fitted with standard Michelin 215/75R/16C tyres. I was wondering whether we should buy a set of winter tyres of the 3 mountain peaks variety as opposed to the simple M+S and pay for them to be fitted. Do we keep them on all year or do we have to swap them back over according to the season? If we have to swap them over according to the season then that seems a bit of a faff. One option is to buy a set of wheels and tyres then it would be a simple matter of changing the wheels over. However from my research an extra set of wheels and winter tyres including a spare would cost around a grand, possibly more-ouch! My preference would be to fit winter tyres to all wheels including the spare and keep them on all year if there was no significant downside to doing that? Has anyone on here got winter tyres that they leave on all year? Thanks Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I have Michelin Agilis Camping tyres on all year, they are m&s rated, and seem to satisfy German regulations. http://www.german-way.com/travel-and-tourism/driving-in-europe/driving/snow-tires-winter-driving/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Thanks for that Billggski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Veronica It really depends on what your objective is tyre-wise. If you just wanted to comply with Germany’s ‘cold weather’ regulations in 2017 any motorhome-suitable 215/75 R16C tyre that is M+S-marked would do. If you wanted realistically good grip in cold weather and on snowy/icy roads, you’d need to opt for a tyre that is 3PMSF-marked (3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake). Such tyres have a radically different tread pattern to common-or-garden ‘summer’ tyres and a softer ‘rubber’ compound that works well in cold conditions (though less well in hot conditions!) This recent discussion may be of interest http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Winter-Tyre-Requirements-changing-Europe-/43346/ It’s generally advised that specialised winter tyres not be used all-year-round, so if you were planning to replace your motorhome’s present tyres it might be a good idea to choose the Maxxis or Vredestein 3PMSF-marked ‘all season’ tyres that should be a good all-year-round compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Derek has already researched very fully in an earlier thread about COMPLIANCE as opposed to practical matters. I think definitive legislation in Germany may not yet have been enacted but it seems likely that to meet "winter requirements" from 1st January 2018 3MP tyres are needed HOWEVERthis may not apply to vehicles having already fitted M&S tyres pre 1/1/2018. so you need to look at Dereks advice and consider your priorities. Also keep evidence of fitting date of M&S if that is how you decide to go. Interestingly I have been speaking to my local Costco about buying Michelin Agilis M&S Camping tyres. I don't need them just yet but the price quoted by Costco was way lower than any other outlet including online. Michelin have very recently launched a new tyre which claims to be truly all the year round and is 3MP compliant. I don't know anything more about it and at present there is only a car variant however my Costco man says that Michelin may bring out a van variant next year. If they do I will be looking at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 A very big thank you to Derek and HymerVan. As it would be good to get the maximum number of years' worth out of new tyres I will wait until the New Year and see if Costco come up with the new tyres they have mentioned. Ours are the old XC version and whilst they have good depth in the tread I'm not sure of their age because we only bought the van last January. I wouldn't mind getting some new ones for all year round use and winter use if that becomes practical. Great advice as usual don't know what I would do without it. Hate to admit it but we winged it with only snow chains in Germany last March (not my decision!) :-) Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Sorry but I'm not good on theory, practicalty being more my forte, but if your van is pre x250 it would probably have been made pre 2007 which makes the tyres 9 years old or so and possibly due for replacement on age basis alone? We crossed the Pyrenees in a blizzard two years on the trot and the first time we were caught out on 'ordinary' camping car tyres - sorry can't recall which make - but on the second time we were on Michelin Agilis M+S rated tyres and the van was a lot more stable and predictable and, driven with due care, was perfectly acceptable for that short duration of atrocious conditions. The tyres also felt grippier on wet grass although that is inconclusive as we tended to avoid wet grass where possible! In your place I would first check the manufacture date on my existing tyres to see if I needed new tyres anyway and assuming I did I would replace them with an all year M+S rated tyre and fit and forget. My perception is that new rubber grips better than old rubber whatever the conditions, although that too is more of a perception and feel than scientifically proven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 I've looked all around the tyre Rich and I can't see a date where will I find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-09-19 7:05 PM I've looked all around the tyre Rich and I can't see a date where will I find it? Probably on the inside wall - that's how Sodde's Law works! https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 HymerVan - 2016-09-19 5:40 PM Michelin have very recently launched a new tyre which claims to be truly all the year round and is 3MP compliant. I don't know anything more about it and at present there is only a car variant however my Costco man says that Michelin may bring out a van variant next year. If they do I will be looking at it For the past few months I have had a pair of Michelin Cross Climate on the rear of one of my Suzi's, seem ok, in a month or so time will be fitting new ones to the front. They are heavier duty than the standard tyres but not up to van use, if they bring out a full range to suit vans such as mine i'd be very interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Germany is a big country, I suppose it depends where and how high you are going. I have winter tyres on my car for February to March in the Alps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Billggski - 2016-09-19 8:02 PM Germany is a big country, I suppose it depends where and how high you are going. I have winter tyres on my car for February to March in the Alps. Over into Austria and then the Dolomites again probably so pretty high. We nearly got stuck on a campsite near Ulm on the outward journey this year which rattled the OH a bit. I resisted the "I told you so" look with all the patience I could muster. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Tracker - 2016-09-19 7:32 PM Violet1956 - 2016-09-19 7:05 PM I've looked all around the tyre Rich and I can't see a date where will I find it? Probably on the inside wall - that's how Sodde's Law works! https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-age Yep not on the outside and we have a gravel drive doh! However on another forum I read something which said that if they were Michelin Camping XC they will definitely be more than 5 years old which was strange since it was a post in 2010. Could it really be that the tyres have never been replaced on a 10 year old van with 29K on the clock that passed its MOT in January 2016? I notice some crazing on the outside walls but it doesn't look that bad*-) Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 I've looked through the bills and MOTs. Someone who serviced it in 2014 commented "tyre walls in poor condition". Glad I started this investigation I think they have got to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I‘m pretty sure that Michelin stopped producing the “XC CAMPING” pattern in the early/mid 2000s, replacing it with “Agilis Camping”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 An update... Looking back through forum tyre-related discussions it seems that Michelin’s “Agilis Camping” pattern was introduced in early 2008, at which point production of “XC Camping” presumably ceased. So any XC Camping tyre should be at least 8 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-09-20 2:29 PM An update... Looking back through forum tyre-related discussions it seems that Michelin’s “Agilis Camping” pattern was introduced in early 2008, at which point production of “XC Camping” presumably ceased. So any XC Camping tyre should be at least 8 years old. Thanks Derek. You have confirmed my belief that they have got to go. Struggling to find 215/75/16s on't t'internet that are "all season" mind,which would be my preference. :-) Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 http://www.camskill.co.uk/m153b1893s8086p111321/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Van_Vredestein_Comtrac_All_Season_-_215_75_R16_C_113R_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_E_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_71dB These have the 3 peaks mountain snowflake symbol so will still be legal in Germany after 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Do look out for manufactured dates of winter tyres, I queried a pair of well priced new Agilis Alpin on ebay and they turned out to be 2010! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 kevina - 2016-09-20 4:55 PM http://www.camskill.co.uk/m153b1893s8086p111321/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Van_Vredestein_Comtrac_All_Season_-_215_75_R16_C_113R_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_E_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_71dB These have the 3 peaks mountain snowflake symbol so will still be legal in Germany after 2018. Brilliant thanks just under £500 delivered for 5 (I am assuming that to be fully street legal in Germany I will need to fit the spare as well). I was getting confused on other websites with the load business. :-) Cheers Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-09-20 5:26 PM kevina - 2016-09-20 4:55 PM http://www.camskill.co.uk/m153b1893s8086p111321/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Van_Vredestein_Comtrac_All_Season_-_215_75_R16_C_113R_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_E_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_71dB These have the 3 peaks mountain snowflake symbol so will still be legal in Germany after 2018. Brilliant thanks just under £500 delivered for 5 (I am assuming that to be fully street legal in Germany I will need to fit the spare as well). I was getting confused on other websites with the load business. :-) Cheers Veronica Veronica It’s worth highighting (again) that Vredestein’s “Comtrac All Season” tyre has a ‘directional’ tread-pattern. If you look at the picture on kevina’s link you’ll see that the tread-pattern is essentially 'V-shaped’ with the point of the V pointing downwards. Wheels carrying tyres with a V-shaped directional tread-pattern always need to be mounted on the vehicle so that the point of the V points downwards, which means that (for a vehicle with 4 wheels) there will be two ‘left-hand-side’ wheels and two 'right-hand-side’ wheels. Directional tread-pattern tyres complicate tyre ‘movement', as although it’s practicable to immediately interchange left-hand-side wheels OR interchange right-hand-side wheels, it’s not practicable to interchange left-hand-side wheels WITH right-hand-side wheels (or vice versa). Having a directional tread-pattern tyre on the spare wheel means that, if the spare wheel needs to be fitted in an emergency, there’s a 50/50 chance that its tyre’s tread-pattern direction will be incorrect. For example, if you suffered a right-front-wheel (or right-rear-wheel) puncture and the spare wheel has had its tyre mounted in the left-hand-side configuration, fitting the spare wheel on the vehicle’s right-hand side would mean that the spare wheel’s tread-pattern would be ‘upside-down’. I notice that the Maxxis MA-LAS tyre is available in 215/75 R16C size and with a 116 Load Index. http://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/Maxxis/MA-LAS/215-75-R16C-116-114R/R-241133 I don’t know how the Maxxis tyre compares performance/longevity-wise with the Vredestein product, but it does have the M+S and snowfalke markings and, as its tread-pattern is unidirectional, avoids the potential fitting/usage issues of the Vredestein tyre. It’s perhaps also worth mentioning that the recommended inflation pressures for 215/75 R16 Michelin “XC Camping” tyres were usually 80pi for front and rear axles. If you are using those pressures and opt for ‘white van’ tyres (rather than ‘camping-car’ tyres) you’ll need to lower the pressures appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Thanks Derek. There's so much to think about. I suppose we could dump the spare with Comtracs. I wonder why anyone would use this tread pattern if it compromises use of a spare. Do people carry tyre repair kits instead? How feasible would it be to carry one instead of a spare? Forgive my ignorance this may be one of the daftest questions I've asked but consider my moniker - greener than the brightest green you've ever seen when it comes to all thing MH. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Found a post of yours from 2014 on repair kits for MHs so don't trouble yourself with a reply to my last post. Looked at the Maxxis seem like a very good option. Don't care about how long they last as this is a first van and we may change it after 3 years when we have a bit more dosh. Thanks again. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyExsis Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I've been reading tyre threads with interest as I am changing the tyres on my 2006 Exsis fitted with the original Michelin Camping X this week - I have swapped back to front 2 years ago....43k miles now and still 6mm of tread on front and 4 on back. After much deliberation I am sticking with the Michelin Agilis Camping greenX There was a comment on another recent thread from 'Way to Go' - he is based in Germany and posted that he uses these " Maxxis MA-LAS " There have been many threads about 'spare or not' , many vehicles do not come with spare as standard now. Derek is wonderful at retrieving information, I am sorry that I can't pass references on as informatively as he can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Ruby(Exsis) - 2016-09-21 10:55 AM I've been reading tyre threads with interest as I am changing the tyres on my 2006 Exsis fitted with the original Michelin Camping X this week - I have swapped back to front 2 years ago....43k miles now and still 6mm of tread on front and 4 on back. After much deliberation I am sticking with the Michelin Agilis Camping greenX There was a comment on another recent thread from 'Way to Go' - he is based in Germany and posted that he uses these " Maxxis MA-LAS " There have been many threads about 'spare or not' , many vehicles do not come with spare as standard now. Derek is wonderful at retrieving information, I am sorry that I can't pass references on as informatively as he can Really helpful thanks. Will search for "Way to Go" posts. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.