Caravan Club and wild camping.

[certified]

"What a selfish, self opinionated bully!"

 

 

if the cap fits, Frank....................

[mom]

Chris,

Unfortunately you have played the "birthright" card.  It's a dangerous card to play because it carries with it more responsibility than the average punter is willing to wear.

Zealous protection of the environment, absolute and active preservation of nature for future generations, unyielding respect for the birthrights of all others no matter the personal cost.  These are just a few of the responsibilities that go with the birthright argument.  

"Birthright" is rarely seen with the full extent of required personal commitments.

[Dave Newell]

And yet again we have a first class demonstration of how a sensible and interesting thread is reduced to a meaningless argument with personal insults being hurled around!

 

In general I don't wild camp, I have been known to stop overnight in places where I don't disturb anyone but I don't call this camping. To my mind "wild camping" is setting up camp somewhere other than an organised campsite or showground. This would include such activities as staying for several days, getting the outside chairs out etc. I don't think it fair to use the term wild camping for a simple overnight stop, say 8.00pm till morning for example.

 

I don't quite see how wild camping can be anyones birthright though. All land in this country is owned by someone, therefore how can it be anyones right to just pitch up wherever you feel like it?

 

D.

[chas]

It would be very interesting to know, if at all possible if, the wild campers do it , because the area is so delightful it needs to be admired as long as possible, OR because its a cheap way of saving money instead of paying site fees, having seen a lot of so called stopovers and aires for that matter, I think I know the reason, the times I have passed groups of vans, many costing £50,000 + parking on nothing more than a level tip, it beggers belief to endure that situation, for the sake of a few quid. chas

[Roy]

I agree with Dave on this one. Let us note the distinction between 'wild camping' and 'overnighting'. I think the majority are thinking of just wanting to find somewhere to stop overnight whilst touring without the formality of booking into a camp site. That is why we like the continental system of aire and stelle platz so much, and indeed the CL/CS in this

country as the nearest option. Lets face it, many camp sites, especially those belonging to the clubs, are not so keen on motor caravanners just stopping for one night.

It is very simple, we just want a secure place to stop legally overnight without formality and the clubs, as well as local authorities could (and probably will given time) provide this facility. In the meantime we can always go to the continent.

Roy

 

[Pat]

Wow don't know about 'wild camping' I feel that this has developed into 'wild campers'

 

Regards Pat

[Rowan Lee]

We belong to both CC and CCC, and we choose our site, whether it be a club site or a CL/CS according to where we need or want to stay.

 

Whilst I do find some of the rules and regulations on Club sites restricting, I can see why they need to have them, and reinforce them with notices. Perhaps it is the actual wording of "everyone loves your dog ..." that previous posters have objected to rather than the sentiment, but I have to admit to having been guilty of not following this rule with potentially disastrous consequences.

 

I had taken my old Mum and her young Jack Russell away to a CC club site and were parked well away from anyone else. The dog was getting very bored and restless and tying the lead in knots around the trees, chairs, van wheels, etc. So we let her off the lead and were throwing the ball a short distance for her which she was retrieving and coming back to us very nicely. We must have lost concentration, because the next thing we knew there was a dreadful snarling and barking from the other side of the van and we rushed round to find that our dog had been startled to find a small child, perhaps 6 years old and had reacted as dogs do. Fortunately the little girl was with her father, and both were extremely good about an incident which was entirely our fault, not the dog's, and which could have had much more serious consequences, even though we were quite confident that the dog would not have actually bitten anyone. But who knows?

 

This is why there are rules. It is for the sake of stupid and irresponsible dog owners like us. We can see now why they have such rules. My Mum wept for the little girl and we came home the next day.

 

And I think we are quite sensible really .....

 

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

certified - 2006-12-11 8:47 AM "What a selfish, self opinionated bully!" if the cap fits, Frank....................

Interesting response from someone who's never posted before. I'd love to check the IP address!

Let me remind you of the post that initiated my strong response. Livewire said:

Am I the only here who thinks that to wild camp in my own country is my birthright.

I do get the feeling that some people have the attitude that just because they don't like to do something (or haven't the guts), then no one else should.

Don't critisise other people for thinking in black and white without looking in the mirror first. If you don't like wild camping, fine, don't do it. Other than that keep your negative opinions to yourself, go out and get a life.

Do you think that that's a temperate response to what was up until then a sensible discussion? He got what he deserved.

This will be my last post on this subject. I've made my opinion clear on the subject of wild camping and I'm entitled to my opinion without being told that I should get a life or that I have no guts.

[livewire]

Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-10 10:36 PM

livewire - 2006-12-10 8:57 PM

Frank Wilkinson - 2006-12-10 6:20 PM

Vixter - 2006-12-10 3:09 PM VoH using Vixters email- mine's down! There seems to be a complete spectrum of views and opinions on this thread, which I find to be both informative and also a reflection of the true cross section of Forum Members. Long may it continue!! I do wonder however, if what we are seeing in the various clubs' attitudes is no more than the rest of the country's drift into Nanny State Conditions. How often have you seen some "Jobs-worth", outside of motor homing circles, stating officiously that "you cannot do that because of health and safety" ? All around us traditions are being eroded- conkers banned as being dangerous, There are more and more stupid instructions on goods and articles to prevent idiots sueing - I heard of a Kawasaki motor-cycle hand book stating that the machine "had no edible parts"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have got through most of my life so far with all my digits and appendages intact and have lived and worked in various countries throughout the world in all manner of circumstances. The last thing I need, is to have to do a risk assessment each morning before I can decide if it safe to get out of bed. Rules are for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools I did read in one of the national papers that if you get a "Jobs-worth" attemping to prevent an innocuous event from happening, on the grounds of health and safety, you should ask for his supervisor to give you a written explanation why. Then forward on to the head of the HSE for his comments, apparently he is getting a little fed up with the situation as well! VoH

I'm a businesman and no one is more fed up than I am with the many over-zealous jobsworths who seem incapable of seeing legislation in shades other than black or white. Having said that however I am totally against unrestricted wild camping.

I've no objection to Aires de Service or even stopping on a motorway aire when in transit but for motor-caravanners and towers alike to think that we should have the right to park our moveable accommodation wherever we want is selfish and ultimately self-defeating.

I do not want my view of a remote and beautiful coastline or lovely isolated rural idyll to be ruined by a few people trying to save a few pounds on site fees.

Wild campers should also consider the negative effect that their activities have on the rest of us who become tarred with the same brush and easy targets for the Jeremy Clarksons of this world.

Am I the only here who thinks that to wild camp in my own country is my birthright. I do get the feeling that some people have the attitude that just because they don't like to do something (or haven't the guts), then no one else should. Don't critisise other people for thinking in black and white without looking in the mirror first. If you don't like wild camping, fine, don't do it. Other than that keep your negative opinions to yourself, go out and get a life.

What a selfish, self opinionated bully! You can have your opinions but if we disagree we are negative! As for me not having guts (what's brave by the way about sticking your motorhome in a lay-by somewhere?) would you like a little challenge about what we each do for travelling?

In the last two years I've tramped around Tibet at altitudes from 12,000 feet to 17,000, staying in inns where you smothered yourself in Deet before going to bed.

In August this year I took the Trans-Siberian railway from Moscow to Siberia and after a bit of walking by Lake Baikal transferred to the Trans-Mongolian for a few days living in a Mongolian tent on the steppes. Then it was back on the train through the Gobi Desert to Beijing for the luxury of an hotel and a warm shower.

 I won't bore you with some of the very exotic places that I've visited over the last thirty years of travelling, often with my wife, but some years ago health reasons precluded her flying long haul and she can't risk being far away from first-class medical facilities, so we started caravanning and now motorhoming in Europe.

Where have you 'wild camped' in your luxurious motorhome lately, you courageous litle soul!

Regrettably, you seem typical of a small (fortunately) percentage of the population who are so selfish and self important that they think that whatever they want to do is all that matters, and to hell with the rest of us!

But then again, you are one of the brave and stout hearted 'wild campers' who are ready to plonk their motorhome in the middle of beautiful countryside and take the huge risk that you may be savaged by a huge rabbit or even, God forbid, a fierce and savage wild pony!

Well done old boy - we're all in awe of your pioneering spirit and sheer foolhardy risk taking!

Well, light the blue touch paper and stand back! (lol) I must admit to never having considered wild camping as selfish and I don't think it is really. I wild camp on occasion. Usually because there are no alternatives (winter) or because the sites available are not to my liking (family sites, large commercial site). or excessively priced - (over£20 and am only stopping overnight so don't want electric, laundary etc.).I think you should:Never stop on private landLeave the place tidier than you found it.Park up late, don't stay too late in the morningPark as opposed to camp (no BBQ's, tables etc)Keep out of the way of popular places so you're not 'obvoius'I do not object to pitch fees at all and enjoy the security and freedom a site will give you. There again I never suggested that a bit of wild camping makes you an exiting person. But then neither does a Nepalese trekking holiday or a Trans Siberian railway holiday. We have nearly all done exciting things with our lives and could no doubt bore one another with tit for tat anecdotes. Wild camping just does not register on the 'risk scale', any more than an adventure holiday turns you into an explorer.However some people do not like wild camping because they do not feel comfortable with it. Fine. No problem. No one is asking you to. But it does seem a a bit of a selfish attitude that if someone doesn't like something then it should be banned for the whole population. What is wrong with a bit of live and let live. Wild camping has never been an issue in this country (apart from a few particlar locations). I just don't see why people can be so vitriolic about it, the CC being latest.As for being selfish, we all do selfish things. Owning a m/h is often seen as selfish by businesses in holiday areas. Is not spending £20-50k on a 'toy' (your m/h) selfish? What about flying to the other side of the world, spending 2 years 'carbon emmision allowance' on a holiday?

[Basil]

Well interesting comments indeed!

My own perspective is that having been a CC member for over 30 years, having been a caravanner and matorhomer at different times, currently motorhomer, I can honestly say we have never experienced any discrimination at all and the wardens have usually been very helpful and more interested in looking in the motorhome because they are considering one themselves. I have come to the conclusion, have to say it has been my experience, that the main source of 'anti' and unfriendly situations have been from motorhomers not caravanners and I feel you only get the reaction you ask for!

We don't find a problem with the signage and we do not even 'love your dog on a lead' if it is not well behaved and kept under total control by its owner on a short lead and not one of those ridiculous ever lengthening ones, why do some dog owners think that everybody must like dogs?

There are a couple of things that I have disagreed with over the years and made my thoughts known, the main one being the compulsory electricity payment another the large hike in pricing structures at times, but on the whole we believe it represents good value for money. The magazine in terms of a subscription would cost you more than that look at the cost of MMM what else do you get for your money, not that I am necessarily saying it is not the going rate?

Reading some of the views I am quite happy that some don't want to be in the club as they obviously do not want to be part of the club and in the case of one, livewire, I am not sure he wants to be part of a civilised organised society anarchy seems more his option.

We use Aires abroad, we have 'wild camped', though only for a couple of nights here and there and not necessarily from choice, in both caravan and motorhome.

However I do believe that Brian Kirby had the right as a member to have his views and queries aired (no pun intended) and I have already e-mailed the Caravan Club to that effect and I await their reply.

 

Bas

[michele]

Dave Newell - 2006-12-11 9:05 AM

 

And yet again we have a first class demonstration of how a sensible and interesting thread is reduced to a meaningless argument with personal insults being hurled around!

 

And yet again I agree why must it always turn to nastiness. Why can't people have there say without this nonsense....God after all we are all supposed to be like minded people with a common hobby /interest.

 

Where is the good spirit or the christmas spirit . We can't all agree all the time but we don't have to resort to hurling insults to each other.

The pen is mightier than the sword & because we can't see each others faces it becomes worse.. What a shame. Worse things happen at sea.

Cheer up lads .

[Clive]

Responsible wild camping is perfectly OK in my book. Leave the stopping place as (or cleaner than) one found it and cause no nuisance is the pre-requesite.

 

Some of us enjoy the ability to get away from people and enjoy tranquility and peace. You cannot do this on a camp site with kiddies running around, mums shouting and generators running.

 

In France it is their legal right to stop for one night in apropriate places. Why not the UK?

 

Must comment on the CC. From the press reports of some of their postures, attitudes and comments from some of their members they will not be getting my money - hookup or not.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mel B]

We tried in the past to 'wild camp' in England, but it's hopeless in most cases, not easy to find anywhere and you can be sure that if you do you'll get disturbed by someone ... the local lads and lasses out for a bit of night-time nookie in the back of a car in one instance!

 

The exception in England is when we're down in Dover, we usually get the 8.00 am-ish ferry so need to be up bright eyed and bushy tailed, so wild camp near the port, similarly we also tend to get a ferry back mid-evening so drive for a couple or so hours and kip down in a nice little village which we've found just off the motorway in the village car park tucked out of the way, usually getting there around 11.00 pm and off again by 8.00 am at the latest, it doesn't upset anyone as we aren't there long enough for anyone to realise!

 

We have however wild camped quite a bit in Scotland and Ireland (north & south), without any problem.

 

Keep it sensible and respectful and you shouldn't have any problem for the odd night.

 

:-)

[trigrem]

What Mel B has described is in my book not "wild camping" but a simple stopover, causing no problems or offence to anyone.

If on the other hand Mel had wound out the awning, got out the chairs and table and lit a barbeque. That would be "wild camping" and liable to upset people, and cause motorhomers to be seen in a bad light, followed by demands for regulations.

At the end of the day if one wants to wild camp, preferably out of site of others, then do it with responsibility and consideration for others,

By the way I do not consider staying on Aires as "wild camping" because they are recognised and regulated stopovers.

Refering to Brians original post about the CC I support what he tried, but recognise that the CC is a business, and a business only likes good publicity, just reading the magazine proves that.

Doug

[ROND]

I enjoy wild camping where it is safe and accepted unfortunately in Britain it is not, we are too overcrowded and the CCclub is dead against it unfortunately. In recent years it has becoome more and more difficult to just go off and not book a site in advance, the CCclub sites are nearly all pre booked and full holiday times and i honestly think there is an answer to the problem and its in the hands of the Caravan club, simply for them to create "aire" type sites for motorhomes. They already have the land, caravans take up at least twice the space of a motorhome especialy when they have a caravan,car and an awning, in that space alone you could put 3 motorhomes. If they set aside an area of a site such as a large car park and allowed motorhomes to use it for a nominal sum just as they do in France and Germany then it would free up more room for the caravans. Can i see it happening --- NO WAY, why, because they want to squeeze every last penny out of us, its a business not a club !!!!!!

 

[Clive]

On the other hand.... We do "belong" to the C&CC and through this get RAC arrival. The discount on the RAC arrival is about equal to the C&CC subscription. This is why we joined.

We have only ever once used a C&CC site and just turned up on spec. We got in after some debate with a jobsworth but without hookup which we didn,t want in the first place. I cannot see any point with a motorhome in booking sites as it might be a wet week end or whatever and you could wish to change your mind. How can one have spontinaity if you have to book? (Is that spelt correctly?)

I fear what the C&CC will do with the New Forest, a regular haunt for us. We only ever booked once and had to cancel due to illness. Lost loads of cash. Since then we just turn up on spec. and have never failed to get in. (We dont go on Bank Holidays)

 

The last think I want to be in my leisure persuits in ORGANISED by somebody else.

 

Brothers to the revolution!

 

C.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vixters other half]

Clive you spelt book correctly. Im revolting can I join the revolution?

VoH

[Brian Kirby]

When we first got our van we did a little tour up the east coast and across to Cumbria, then back down the middle.  Used all CC or CCC sites except one, and that was an affilliated site.  We got sniffed at and grumbled at for not having booked virtually everywhere except Keswick and Kendal.  Haven't spend a day on a UK Club site since! 

I just don't know how the Spanish, Portugese, Italians, French and Germans manage!  Must be absolute hell for them, what with everyone just turning up unbooked: all that disorganisation - and they manage to smile at you when you arrive (well mostly!).

Why on earth can't these bl**dy foreginers be more like us British!

[Keith T]

I agree with Clive about the current 'need' to book - so often the CC sites are already fully booked at some periods, and with the scarcity of sites actually open touting around can e difficult. WE book only on some where we know whatever the weatehr we wich to be ( eg Abbey Wood, London or Bristol, Baltic Wharf), but other than than phone when 'en route' to check space. Don't like the idea of having to book months inadvance, and it sertainly is 'anti-motorhome' spirit.

[Guest TC01]

One of the reasons I joined the clubs was that they have no vetting procedures in place, thus I was able to join with no background checks made.

[trigrem]

We are with Clive on this, booking is what you do to stay in hotels, ( remember those?).

Never booked when crossing the water, except once when we went to the D-Day 60 year remembrance in Normandy.

Although we usually travel May/June/Sept/Oct we once went to a family gathering in August in Montpelier, did not book then either and travelled down through July to get there (Ido not rush about), no problems.

This country we look for Cl & Cs type sites, no problem ringing them during the day we are travelling. Sometimes we stay on C & CC sites with the Grandchildren, but try to go mid week out of season when we can get our wrinklies discount.

Doug

[flicka]

TC01 - 2006-12-14 3:40 PM

 

One of the reasons I joined the clubs was that they have no vetting procedures in place, thus I was able to join with no background checks made.

That certainly explains al ot

Flicka

[Mel B]

Just a bit of info I picked up whilst away recently, at one of the Caravan Club sites we were staying at I duly informed them when we booked in that we were in a motorhome and had 2 dogs with us, just as I usually did as it is normally some of the first questions we are asked, however, this time they weren't interested, apparently they no longer keep a record of whether or not you are in a caravan or motorhome, or if you have dogs, as they don't use the statistics anymore.

 

Whether this is because it's too time consuming to gather and input the info, whether their booking/cash register system doesn't allow for it to be input, or whether they really don't care I don't know, it may also be that they don't want to be seen to be splitting us up into groups anymore and/or causing discrimination, or maybe they've finally realised what a lovely lot us motorhomers are and have finally accepted that we're here to stay! What do you lot think??

 

;-)

[Keith T]

'no longer keep a record'......what planet were those wardens on, I wonder. The 'required' info on booking via the internet is still very much whether caravan or motorhome, what size, how many axles, and of course the old chestnut - your time of arrival! No change in that, and still is for 2007 bookings.

[david lloyd]

Keith T - 2007-01-02 10:49 PM

 

'no longer keep a record'......what planet were those wardens on, I wonder. The 'required' info on booking via the internet is still very much whether caravan or motorhome, what size, how many axles, and of course the old chestnut - your time of arrival! No change in that, and still is for 2007 bookings.

 

Not only that Keith but the last time I used the website to book I, naturally, put that the 'van had two axles (front and rear) but when I arrived at the site they were expecting a tag axle motorhome!!

 

I just put one axle now.

 

Regards, David