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Labour Conference/Split


StuartO

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Jeremy is "wiping the slate clean" in his commitment to reach a modus vivendi with his MPs but his supporters (as reported in the Telegraph) aren't being so charitable: 

 

"L
abour MPS have been forced to run a gauntlet of hard-left activists calling them “traitors” and demanding that they were deselected because of their opposition to Jeremy Corbyn.

Group including the “Labour Party Marxists” and Socialist Labour were on Sunday stationed outside the entrance to the party conference in Liverpool demanding that moderates are not allowed to fight the next general election.

The groups called on its members to “use all the weapons at our disposal” to take on the MPs trying to depose Mr Corbyn."

 

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The Telegraph does of course select what and how it publishes things to please its target audience, as all newspapers, do we mustn't jump to the conclusion that its all true, proportionate nd genuinely illustrative of what Corbyn and his associates want and intend, but Corbyn is the Corbyn of 30 years banging the same sort of drum.  He's never going the change his spots all that much now he's finally got his go at driving the ship, eve if lots of people think he is steering it towards the rocks.

 

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StuartO - 2016-09-26 9:10 AMJeremy is "wiping the slate clean" in his commitment to reach a modus vivendi with his MPs but his supporters (as reported in the Telegraph) aren't being so charitable: 

 

"L
abour MPS have been forced to run a gauntlet of hard-left activists calling them “traitors” and demanding that they were deselected because of their opposition to Jeremy Corbyn.

Group including the “Labour Party Marxists” and Socialist Labour were on Sunday stationed outside the entrance to the party conference in Liverpool demanding that moderates are not allowed to fight the next general election.

The groups called on its members to “use all the weapons at our disposal” to take on the MPs trying to depose Mr Corbyn."

 

Of course, if its says so in the Telegraph it must be true, musn't it?
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Well the Telegraph isn't a red top, so there should be some truth in it.  I suppose "run a gauntlet" might be a bit of journalistic licence, as they might have been shouted at as they passed, but in the current context groups of left wing activists demanding that all non-left wing MPs deselected sounds credible enough surely?

 

Corbyn himself declared on the Marr Show yesterday that "most" sitting MPs have nothing to worry about.  The revision of lots of constituency boundaries will of course do some of the dirty work for him.

 

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StuartO - 2016-09-26 9:58 AM

 

The Telegraph does of course select what and how it publishes things to please its target audience>

Either that or its owners, the Barclay brothers.

They wouldn't allow comments on their friend Margaret Thatcher for example.

(She spent her final days in a suite at the Ritz, a Barclay brothers hotel.)

I used to read the Telegraph, but since I had to look elsewhere to get any sensible coverage of Jeremy Corbyn, I seldom look at the Telegraph now. Which is a shame because they had some good journalists.

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We're in danger of side-tracking on to a debate about the Telegraph's editorial policy and missing out on discussing the Labour Conference.

 

There was an article in the Grauniad on the same day mentioning the notable absence of sitting MPs from the main auditorium and suggesting they were all in side meetings.  Hilary benn's attempts to make the peace were being heckled somewhere.  The BBC seems to be keeping quiet about deselection prospects, which is perhaps the loyal thing to do.

 

Whatever is going on is mostly sub-surface at the moment and certainly Jeremy Corbyn seems to feel he's vanquished his opposition.  Maybe we really are in for a hard left few years for the Labour Party.

 

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Guest pelmetman
StuartO - 2016-09-27 9:14 AMMaybe we really are in for a hard left few years for the Labour Party.

Harder the better in my view........As my feel is that the voting public is veering more to the right everyday B-) .......Although I heard the perfect example of a oxymoron yesterday, when Unite leader Len McCluskey, called those MP's who were against Corbyn...... right wing (lol) (lol) (lol) .........
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It's a tough life for a Corbyn-supporting MP today if your constituency is north of Watford and your Consitutents want immigration dealt with properly because JC has announced that migration numbers are not the issue, because migrants do lots of useful jobs in UK, so the way forward is to spend money (he prefers the word "invest") to help areas where there are lots of immigrants cater for them more effectively.  That would of course make these areas more attractive to economic migrants so we would attract more, but the principle of the matter requires the provision of better facilities to ease migrant pressures, so that presumably overrides any consideration of migrant numbers and trends.

 

Ah, says the Shadow Education Secretary, and Minister for Women and Equalities, because JC is short-handed with volunteers for his cabinet posts, it is of course important for a country to know the numbers of people entering and leaving, trying hard to give her own Northern Constituents confidence that she's on the immigration case, which she knows she has to do, but without appearing to criticise or challenge JC.

 

A profile of the Shaddow Education Secretary is available here:  https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2016/jul/05/quick-guide-shadow-education-secretary-angela-rayner-teachers

 

 

 

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malc d - 2016-09-27 9:07 PM

 

Interesting to note that a lot of peoples attitude to Corbyn ( i.e. "no hoper " - " loser " etc ) is very similar to a lot of the establishments view of Brexiteers -

 

- before the referendum.

 

 

;-)

 

When the polls are showing Labour and the Tories neck and neck with Corbyn in charge, I'll give the idea some credence ;-) ...........

 

I'll also know its time to emigrate 8-)........

 

 

 

 

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The Labour Conference is over and the newly confirmedleader, Jeremy Corbyn, has made his closing speech.  He’s not a man to abandon his principles andyou can’t deny that he sticks to his guns.   

 

So while he accepts that the Party’s currentpolicy is to replace our ageing Trident Nuclear Deterrent rather than leave theCountry unable to deter an aggressor in this way, he’s reserving his right tocontinue arguing for his long held personal view, which is that we should scrapour nuclear deterrent altogether.  Nosurprise there then.

But it was a surprise to me that he has stuck so firmly tohis guns about immigration.  This leaveshis Northern MPs, in constituencies like Oldham, to sell the Islington view ofhow to deal with immigration – which as far as places like Oldham is concernedwill be to rely on extra money to boost their overloaded-by-immigrantslocal services.  If this increase infunding is adequate and actually happens, the improved local services will presumably act as amagnet to bring in more immigrants, but that prospect hasn’t been mentioned.

Along with the funding for other ways in which Labour willspend more money, businesses will be expected to pay more tax as well as investour way out of any post-Brexit downturn which we face.  The legislation brought in to curb tradesunions will be repealed too, so businesses will have to face those sort ofadditional pressures too.

In summary it’s merely the usual Tax & Spend stuff butcan you see the citizens of Oldham etc swallowing the Islington Solution of 21stcentury Socialism to their overload of immigration?

It’s simply a matter of faith for Corbyn supporters to believeit will all work and no doubt they do all believe this; they are young and naive.  If only Jeremy’s wonderful ideas are given aproper chance to work; that’s the usual complaint which politicians make when their ideas haven’t yet worked. 

 

Unfortunately for Jeremy’sfaithful followers, Jeremy will first need to convince the British electorate asa whole to have faith in him.   And therestill seem to be rather a lot of Labour MPs who aren’t so sure Jeremy’s ideasare the right ones.  And Jeremy still has only a skeleton Shadow Cabinet, pickedby scraping the barrel.

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You seem to be implying that JC has actually got a plan to deal with immigration?

 

My impression was that he is not planning to do anything at all about immigration because he doesn't think it should be controlled, because immigration is a good thing.  We should simply make better preparations to cope with it, regardless of what the citizens of Oldham etc might think.

 

And in contrast, as I understand it, the Tories are already committed to achieving better control of immigration numbers as part of the Brexit objectives, whether that makes it difficult or impossible to get access to the EU Single Market or not.  And that, as I understand it, is precisely what the citizens of Oldham etc voted for.

 

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Part of Corbyn's plan is to equal pay and benefits across the EU, so that there is less of an incentive to come to the UK ;-) ...........

 

He really does think he's JC 8-) ........

 

 

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StuartO - 2016-09-29 10:13 AMYou seem to be implying that JC has actually got a plan to deal with immigration?

 

My impression was that he is not planning to do anything at all about immigration because he doesn't think it should be controlled, because immigration is a good thing.  We should simply make better preparations to cope with it, regardless of what the citizens of Oldham etc might think.

 

And in contrast, as I understand it, the Tories are already committed to achieving better control of immigration numbers as part of the Brexit objectives, whether that makes it difficult or impossible to get access to the EU Single Market or not.  And that, as I understand it, is precisely what the citizens of Oldham etc voted for.

I have not seen all of Corbyns speech, but as I understand it he does not see immigration as a big problem, and his policy is to spend money in those areas that have been adversely affected by it.I personally don't agree with him, but he is clear about what he intends to do.The Tories, on the other hand, simply say they intend better controls - but don't say how - it's simply a " commitment "I have not heard any policy from them about alleviating the problems that have already been created.Their previous commitment to reduce immigration to tens of thousands a year didn't go too well, so why on earth would anyone believe that they will do it in the future ?Only time will tell, but my guess is that the level of immigration will change very little - regardless of " commitments "
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I would guess that if Corbyn ever does look like he will get the levers of power immigration will not be the issue. It will be emigration as thousands queue up to leave the UK. Of course they will be all the tax payers off to make other countries better and wealthier. If Brexit is cancelled then I foresee a huge increase in the expat population of Spain and Portugal. Might as well have a decent climate to go with it. At least we will not need the last person to switch off the lghts, as these will not be working anyway as all the union members will be on strike.

 

That s not to say I want to see the Tories in power for ever but until there is some form of credible opposition, that looks likely. I would almost encourage St Theresa to call a snap election just to wipe out what is left of Labour, and then finally they may get the message. Allowing t to drag on and fester just allows Corbyn to think he has a mandate bigger than reality. Looking at some of the Press pictures of his Conference indicates just how dopy some of his followers actually are. One wonders if they took a week off work to attend, or of course if they are on benefits it does not matter.

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pelmetman - 2016-09-27 10:06 AM
StuartO - 2016-09-27 9:14 AMMaybe we really are in for a hard left few years for the Labour Party.

Harder the better in my view........As my feel is that the voting public is veering more to the right everyday B-) .......Although I heard the perfect example of a oxymoron yesterday, when Unite leader Len McCluskey, called those MP's who were against Corbyn...... right wing (lol) (lol) (lol) .........
I guess you'd find Ghengis Khan too far to the left.
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pelmetman - 2016-09-28 9:21 AM

 

malc d - 2016-09-27 9:07 PM

 

Interesting to note that a lot of peoples attitude to Corbyn ( i.e. "no hoper " - " loser " etc ) is very similar to a lot of the establishments view of Brexiteers -

 

- before the referendum.

 

 

;-)

 

When the polls are showing Labour and the Tories neck and neck with Corbyn in charge, I'll give the idea some credence ;-) ...........

 

I'll also know its time to emigrate 8-)........

 

 

 

 

Let me know when you're leaving, I'd look forward to waving you off, with a special wave. On second thoughts don't go, think of all the fun I'd miss. On third thoughts who would take you?

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Guest pelmetman
starvin marvin - 2016-09-29 2:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2016-09-28 9:21 AM

 

malc d - 2016-09-27 9:07 PM

 

Interesting to note that a lot of peoples attitude to Corbyn ( i.e. "no hoper " - " loser " etc ) is very similar to a lot of the establishments view of Brexiteers -

 

- before the referendum.

 

 

;-)

 

When the polls are showing Labour and the Tories neck and neck with Corbyn in charge, I'll give the idea some credence ;-) ...........

 

I'll also know its time to emigrate 8-)........

 

 

 

 

Let me know when you're leaving, I'd look forward to waving you off, with a special wave. On second thoughts don't go, think of all the fun I'd miss. On third thoughts who would take you?

 

I doubt I'll need to pack my bags yet ;-) ..........

 

Mind you if Corbyn did win, I suspect they'd soon be lots of space in Eastern Europe for us migrants *-) .....

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Guest pelmetman
starvin marvin - 2016-09-29 2:36 PM
pelmetman - 2016-09-27 10:06 AM
StuartO - 2016-09-27 9:14 AMMaybe we really are in for a hard left few years for the Labour Party.

Harder the better in my view........As my feel is that the voting public is veering more to the right everyday B-) .......Although I heard the perfect example of a oxymoron yesterday, when Unite leader Len McCluskey, called those MP's who were against Corbyn...... right wing (lol) (lol) (lol) .........
I guess you'd find Ghengis Khan too far to the left.
I'd prefer Vlad the Impaler ;-) .......
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