Keith T Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 We've just ordered a new MH which has Gas tank underslung, instead of the usual Calor Gas cylinders. I have two questions and any thoughts will be welcomed.... For the past 15 years or so, I have always used calor 6kg red propane, as we do travel (in UK) through all seasons of the year .I assume the gas in these tanks is standard LPG from garages, is this a viable system all year. Secondly, what is the procedure for filling this ? I believe the full content is some 20 or so litres, and on the basis that I use less than two 6kg cylinders each year, I think that would last a long time. But I will obviously need to top up from time. to time so would welcome your experience and information. I assume there is a tank level gauge somewhere or other in the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Q1: For the past 15 years or so, I have always used calor 6kg red propane, as we do travel (in UK) through all seasons of the year .I assume the gas in these tanks is standard LPG from garages, is this a viable system all year. A1: ‘Autogas’ marketed in the UK is (near as dammit) 100% propane - the same as in a Calor propane canister. Obviously the gas tank will be more exposed than carried-inboard Calor canisters, but travelling in the UK in the winter should not be problematical as far as the gas itself is concerned. (Autogas outside the UK can have a high butane content, which can lead to problems for morcaravanners in very cold weather.) You’d need to confirm where Auto-Trail now sites the gas-regulator. If it’s outside the motorhome (eg. on or adjacent to the gas-tank) there’s the potential for the regulator to freeze: if it’s inside the motorhome, the chances of that happening are pretty small. Q2: Secondly, what is the procedure for filling this ? I believe the full content is some 20 or so litres, and on the basis that I use less than two 6kg cylinders each year, I think that would last a long time. But I will obviously need to top up from time. to time so would welcome your experience and information. I assume there is a tank level gauge somewhere or other in the system? A2: Auto-Trail's advertising for “V-Line” models http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/media/downloads/brochures/2016-v-line-brochure.pdf says that they have an “underslung 25 ltr gas tank" Filling should be via an external filling-point of the type fitted to bi-fuel cars. Example here: http://deepredmotorhome.com/gas.php Underslung gas tanks (usually?) have an integrated contents-gauge, but Auto-Trail’s 2016 “V-Line” handbook http://www.auto-trail.co.uk//media/downloads/handbooks/2016/vline-2016-handbook.pdf says on Page 14 “Fixed LPG tank Your vehicle may have been fitted with a fixed LPG tank that is mounted underneath your vehicle (model specific). This tank allows your vehicle to be filled via a proprietary LPG pump at a suitable filling station. The level of the gas tank is shown on the level indicator on the vehicle dashboard.” As far as I can see no gas-tank filling advice is provided in the handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Derek has covered the point about the type of gas used and given information about the regulator etc. As far as the filling procedure is concerned this is quite like filling your fuel tank with the exception that the pump filler nozzle actually attaches to the inlet provided by Autotrail. There are usually instructions at the pump but you may wish to have the dealer show you exactly how this is done at handover. Do be aware that after the fill is finished and the filler nozzle disengaged there will be a brief release of gas that is left in the pipe to your tank. Although alarming at first it is commonplace but, in winter, it can freeze on your hands - as I found to my cost last year - so you may wish to wear protective gloves in freezing temperatures. Also be aware that although LPG is available now quite widely across mainland Europe you will need a brass adaptor which screws onto the standard UK filling point - the French one is different to the Spanish one and there is an increasingly used 'Europe' adaptor. A good source of information is Chris Wise at Autogas 2000 near Thirsk - information on their website - who not only gives good advice but also sells the adaptors. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Derek mentioned AutoTrail, which I guess he's pick up from another thread, not sure what gauge they use, but WildAx have been having problems with there's, so best check it's working correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 It would appear that “GAS IT” provide LPG-tank equipment to a number of UK motorhome manufacturers http://www.gasit.co.uk/ If WildAx and Auto-Trail are both fitting GAS IT-supplied tanks, the likelihood is that both companies will use the same GAS IT-supplied gauges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 The gas tank should fill to 80% of it's nominal capacity and the float should then cut off the flow, so a 25 litre tank should fill to around 20 litres, in theory. However experience shows that as far as motorhomes go theory and practice are often not the same, and in reality the float may well cut out sooner as both of the two tanks we had did allowing nearer to 16 or 18 litres of gas in from empty. An exercise worth doing is finding the actual capacity from empty if you are going to remote areas and in all cases not to trust the guage which can be wildly inaccurate especially as it nears empty. You will probably know from experience roughly how long a 6 kg Calor lasts in each season and that gas consumption is probably not going to change a lot so may I suggest that you use that period as a rough guide when to top up the tank as that way you should avoid running out of gas. At something like under 60p a litre even 20 litres is so cheap that in my humble view it would be daft to maintain the tank at less than full, especially as you will have no back up bottle. LPG is cheaper abroad but as far as we were concerned the savings are not so great that it really matters one way or the other, unlike with the cost of Calor compared to the cost of Autogas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 As well as the frequency of refilling the gas tank, you may also wish to study the refilling procedure. The "deepredmotorhome" website linked to by Derek only mentions the Gas Guard Gun for the UK, but there is also the De Visser Gun. I have met both types, but the Gas Guard is more common. While videos of the refilling operation can be viewed on You Tube, there is a useful link to a PDF instruction sheet towards the bottom of following page http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg/where-can-i-purchase-fuel/, on the same page there is also a link to a booklet listing UK LPG filling stations. I this latter respect I have also used http://www.mylpg.eu/. Do be aware that where this site shows multiple filling stations in the same area, this is probably an error due to inaccurate postings of the same filling station. For example 3 stations are shown on the map at Abington on the M74. In reality there is only the Shell filling station at the motorway service area! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Our ih PVC has a 25litre underslung gas tank with level gauge. The level gauge seems to measure only the top half of the tank, since when showing empty it takes about 12 litres to fill to 100%. This is not much of a problem to us as we usually use less than this in a two months trip to France/Italy, and then top up on return to UK. The level gauge inaccuracy has been mentioned to ih and Gas-it technical people, but both claimed these devices are notoriously unreliable, and more or les shrugged their shoulders. I have met other users of the Gas-it tanks system and they report similar experience with the level gauge. Just get used to it! Overall, I like the underslung gas tank. Topping up is very easy, cheap (compared with Calor), space saving and does away with searching for and handling gas bottles. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverbike Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 There is a site called mylpg.eu which you can use to locate LPG stations across Europe. Have to be aware that some of the information is a bit out of date, but we've still found it useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hi I put one on my old van some 8 years ago: http://photos.veletron.com/index.php/album151/tribby_001/gastank I fitted this long before there were post-build custom mounting options to stick these in the recess behind the exhaust, so it ended up going longitudinally elsewhere as I did not want to ruin the laminate internally by drilling a hole to drop a bold through the floor. These days the DIY installer installing on a PVC gets an easy life with pre-made mounting brackets. My regulator was external, and yes it did occasionally freeze - if I were doing it again I would go for internal. On the new van I install GasIt bottles instead. Some points: - Underslung refillable tanks are listed as total capacity, not a capacity that already takes account of the 80% fill limit. As such a 25Litre tank is actually 20L which equates to about 10KG of LPG - if using the van in winter, this is not a massive reserve of gas. - Underslung tanks get hammered by all the junk/salt/etc coming off the road. I removed my tank after 2 years to discover extensive corrosion - mostly to the brackets (which I replaced), but I also had to rub down and re-paint the tank. When reinstalled, it got a good coating of Schultz - I did not have any further issues with it. The factory powder-coat paint job was rubbish, it was my replacement paint job rather than the Schultz that made the post difference. I should point out that I use the van every weekend doing 10K miles/year, and in winter I seek out the saltiest roads in search of winter hill walking/climbing/skiing so in more 'normal' use the factory paint job might have been fine. I am now considering an external tank once more, as I wish to free up some space in the gas locker for 'other stuff'. I will likely end up with an internal/external combo using the pre-existing change-over regulator. Idea is that I will live on just the underslung tank in summer, adding an internal bottle in winter when usage is far higher. Dunno if your tank is going to be DIY installed but a couple of points if it is: Check out some of Gas-It's extra's re fitting an external tank such as their 30mm through floor fill pipe flange. This is useful where the fill pipe has to enter the living area (behind a cupboard) in order to reach the desired fill point location. They sell a gasket and pipe that encloses/seals the fill pipe from the fill point down to the floor. This can save having to install additional gas drops, by providing a sealed path through the floor for any fill pipe ruptures. Also, run your 8MM copper high pressure gas pipe from the tank under the van, only entering the van to pass with the shortest distance possible into the regulator. If you enter the can too early (eg under a bed box) then you may need to provision extra gas-drop holes. Be sure not to block off any gas-drops in your newly re-invented gas locker either as it will likely still contain the regulator. If in doubt get someone qualified to do it for you. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 veletron - 2016-10-19 11:31 AM Hi - Underslung refillable tanks are listed as total capacity, not a capacity that already takes account of the 80% fill limit. As such a 25Litre tank is actually 20L which equates to about 10KG of LPG - if using the van in winter, this is not a massive reserve of gas. Idea is that I will live on just the underslung tank in summer, adding an internal bottle in winter when usage is far higher. Dunno if your tank is going to be DIY installed but a couple of points if it is: newly re-invented gas locker either as it will likely still contain the regulator. If in doubt get someone qualified to do it for you. Nigel NO, not DIY, pre-installed by Autotrail at manufacturing stage. SO I assume all safety regulations complied with. I think several manufacturers are now going down this route, and possibly AutoSleeper were early into this, and others are now copying them. On the present basis of usage of gas, we replace the 6kg bottle probably once a year, so I would estimate we shall be well within once a hear fillup, but at least we only pay for the amount we fill.and I am given to understand its a lot cheaper than Calor...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Sorry, I failed to read your original post correctly!! Aye, its much cheaper and definitely more convenient! I go through 6KG over a weekend on a ski trip! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 veletron - 2016-10-19 5:32 PM Sorry, I failed to read your original post correctly!! Aye, its much cheaper and definitely more convenient! I go through 6KG over a weekend on a ski trip! Nigel Yes I am sure you would ...I remember when we had the Rapido it was gas only heating and hot water, and when away in UK at wintertime, we used a lot.....perhaps that's why we upgraded the Burstner heating when we bought that to be gas/electric, and really only now use gas for some cooking, fridge when not on Mains or 'shopping' in Hypermarkets, (yes that can take a few hours!) and its good to see that the new MH from Autotrail has that as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 One thing I would point out is that some under slung systems use a very thin, powder coated band to secure this (quite heavy when full) tank to the chassis. Over time these can corrode quite quickly through road chips taking off the paint and road dirt/rain/snow/road salt adding to the rapid deterioration. This is made worse by the fact that even when inspected the corrosion to the straps may not be easily seen as the powder coating can conceal it. On my last IH panel van I took the precaution of having these thin bands changed for heavy duty steel straps and the whole assembly sprayed with anti stone chip paint at Autogas 2000. While having it done I witnessed a Hymer drive into their premises dragging one end of their under slung tank and saw the second band with just a few millimetres of rusted metal left holding the whole thing on. It was worth the peace of mind. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 david lloyd - 2016-10-19 7:38 PM On my last IH panel van I took the precaution of having these thin bands changed for heavy duty steel straps and the whole assembly sprayed with anti stone chip paint at Autogas 2000. While having it done I witnessed a Hymer drive into their premises dragging one end of their under slung tank and saw the second band with just a few millimetres of rusted metal left holding the whole thing on. David Yep, had this exact same issue with mine, the factory red powdercoat was also pretty poorly done. New 'regulations' re the steel bands apparently require three bands minimum (read on GasIt website). GasIt started selling bands that go around the entire tank+frame rather than just clipping onto the frames mounting points - one of these fitted in the middle of the tank combined with the standard band fixings either end satisfies the new 'regs'. Its worth pointing out that things have moved on, and newfangled tanks have welded-on mounting feet (rather than using fixing bands), these ending up close to the chassis and out of the way of road-gunk. The underside of the tank still vulnerable though and some 'Schultz' sorts this. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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