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Gas attacks in motorhome


Thurlestone

Gas attacks in motorhome  

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Earlier this year a friend's caravan was broken into overnight, while staying on a site. I have fitted the Melenco window safe system to my windows and doors. I have a gas alarm fitted for carbon monoxide but not for co2 which I understand is often used. Can anyone offer further advice on staying safe and not vunerable to this type of attack. *-)

 

Thurlestone

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Thurlestone - 2016-10-18 11:00 AM

 

I have a gas alarm fitted for carbon monoxide but not for co2 which I understand is often used.

 

Thurlestone

 

 

 

Can you tell us where you got the information that " it is often used "

 

I've travelled about quite a bit on the mainland over the years and have never met anyone who has experienced it.

 

:-|

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globebuster - 2016-10-18 5:35 PM

 

Oh No! - what have you done!

 

Dave Pelmet will be along shortly, and maybe this will re-kindle the on-going ' I was gassed!' saga

 

Pages and pages and pages.............and pages of utter tosh :-D :-D

 

..... and this is link to a previous thread if you want a bit of light reading 8-)

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Maybe-its-not-a-myth-/35425/

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Guest pelmetman

Shall I .....Shan't I? :D ......

 

Not given my thesis an airing for a while :-> ........

 

Back by popular demand .................

 

 

Taking the skeptics view one at a time...........

 

1. The RCoA state it would be impossible and in their opinion prohibitively expensive, to use any of the gases currently used in anesthesia.............

 

With the exception of hippy crack AKA laughing gas I would agree, besides CO appears to be the current method of choice, and as the RCoA email states CO is not a anesthetic so is outside their remit

 

So the constant waving of the original RCoA opinion, in articles where CO is suspected is nothing more than a red herring.

 

"Thank you for your recent email concerning The Daily Mirror article. However, it appears to have given rise to some misunderstanding.

 

Although the article identifies in the headline that it refers to exhaust fumes, it then goes on to quote from a statement on the Royal College of Anaesthetists' (RCoA) website (http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles). Exhaust fumes contain carbon monoxide, which is a poison, and is never used in anaesthetic practice. The RCoA statement refers specifically to actual or potential anaesthetic agents as follows:

 

'It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use'.

 

I hope this clarifies the situation and the RCoA will be asking The Daily Mirror for a correction.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Mrs Mandie Kelly

Website and Publications Officer

Communications Department

Clinical Quality Directorate

The Royal College of Anaesthetists | 35 Red Lion Square | London WC1R 4SG

ANAESTHESIA CLINICAL SERVICES ACCREDITATION (ACSA)"

 

2. Impossible to fill a camper with gas?...........

 

Air is a gas ..................and CO will expand to fill a given space **equally**, naturally at point of entry concentrations will be higher.

 

Empirical evidence to support my theory as follows........

 

OBJECTIVES:

It was the goal of this study to demonstrate the behavior of CO in air and to help provide a data-based recommendation for CO alarm placement.

 

METHODS:

CO was calculated to be slightly lighter than air. An 8-foot-tall airtight Plexiglas chamber was constructed and CO monitors placed within at the top, middle, and bottom. CO test gas (15 L, 3000 parts per million) was infused at each of the three heights in different trials and CO levels measured over time.

 

RESULTS:

***********Contrary to a significant amount of public opinion, CO did not layer on the floor, float at the middle of the chamber, or rise to the top. In each case, the levels of CO equalized throughout the test chamber.************* It took longer to equalize when CO was infused at the top of the chamber than the bottom, but levels always became identical with time.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

As would have been predicted by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, CO infused anywhere within the chamber diffused until it was of equal concentration throughout. Mixing would be even faster in the home environment, with drafts due to motion or temperature. It would be reasonable to place a residential CO alarm at any height within the room.

Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

 

3. Lack of dead bodies?.............

 

Given that the victims exposure to any incapacitate would be limited to minutes, and the source of gas/fumes would be removed prior to entry, plus the immediate reduction in toxic atmosphere as soon as the thieves gain access.

Its not surprising that no one has yet died, although that said I would also suggest so far they have been lucky by not targeting anyone with a medical condition ..............

 

4. Too much of a risk for the thieves?.............

 

The argument that the thieves wouldn't risk a murder charge, is like saying people wont commit crimes as they risk going to prison? .............Looking at it from a tea leafs point of view, his greatest unknown and "risk" is when he breaks into a camper...... unless he/she has been following them they're unlikely to know whether there's a couple of old codgers on board, or a family of 6 as in the Chadwick's robbery.

 

Hence the use of some means to incapacitate the occupants would make total sense, and in the balance of probabilities they know their chances of getting caught at the scene is remote, and if they were........ then the EU soft justice system, would at worse case scenario see them getting done for the much lesser charge of manslaughter........

 

5. Lack of medical evidence?.........

 

Up until recently there was only the anecdotal evidence of the symptoms suffered by the victims, which are the same for those who have suffered a CO overdose ...............The Chadwick's incident has shown that CO was used..........because they were given "blood tests that proved positive for CO poisoning", and subsequently given oxygen by the French medical staff..........

 

6. How do they do it?.............

 

This is the interesting bit................. I know from my own experience with the CO alarm going off, whilst just being parked next to a vehicle undergoing diagnostics, that pumping a bit of CO through an open window or vent would be a simple matter......

 

Engine noise?..............on a service area is not unusual ...........

Exhaust smell?............a filter would again be simple enough to add to a bit of hose ..............

Alternatively there are other simple methods of generating CO, as Teflon2 pointed one out to me the other day.

 

7. Insurance scam?............

 

Its frequently said by the skeptics that claiming to be gassed is a method to ensure payout ..........

Seeing as insurance companies payout regardless of whether gas was used seems a pointless exercise to me, especially when they can expect nothing but abuse from their fellow moho owners ........

 

8. Alternative theory's?..........

 

The skeptics have tried various alternative reasons why people would sleep through their camper being robbed..............from tiredness..... too much drink.......fridge failure prior to robbery..........heavy smokers ...............unfortunately none more plausible than the use of a incapacitate in my view...........especially as we now have 4 reported incidents in 2 months ........

 

So newbies you have a choice between my reasoned arguments, backed up by empirical evidence, the French Police, medical evidence and 16 victims ..............

 

Let battle commence >:-) ........

 

 

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To the OP – please log on to the Motorhome Fruitcakes website and enquire about purchasing one of their patented Gas Masks at around £100 and a Gas Detector at around £500 - also a Pet Gas Mask for a reasonable £49.99.

 

You will, of course, be subjected to ridicule and demeaning abuse by the Members of their forums but once you have acquired the items you will be able to safely travel in your Motorhome at home and abroad with renewed confidence.

 

I wish you well.

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Perhaps the most compelling argument against the gassing theory is simple. How do these perpetrators get the gas into the motor-home in quantities that render you unconscious and know when to stop to avoid killing you? they would have to identify an open vent (not one that is sealed from the habitation area ) so fridge and oven vents are out. windows ? we never leave ours open and they are alarmed anyway. that really only leaves the gas drop vents very difficult to use i would imagine or the skylights i assume someone walking on the roof may disturb the occupants or attract other attention. and of course the clanking of cylinders may disturb some... Unless you are so inebriated gassing is not required!

Dave

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Guest pelmetman
Dr Dave - 2016-10-19 11:02 AM

 

Perhaps the most compelling argument against the gassing theory is simple. How do these perpetrators get the gas into the motor-home in quantities that render you unconscious and know when to stop to avoid killing you? they would have to identify an open vent (not one that is sealed from the habitation area ) so fridge and oven vents are out. windows ? we never leave ours open and they are alarmed anyway. that really only leaves the gas drop vents very difficult to use i would imagine or the skylights i assume someone walking on the roof may disturb the occupants or attract other attention. and of course the clanking of cylinders may disturb some... Unless you are so inebriated gassing is not required!

Dave

 

Do you close your cab vents? ;-) .......

 

 

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Spireite - 2016-10-18 8:48 PM

 

To the OP – please log on to the Motorhome Fruitcakes website and enquire about purchasing one of their patented Gas Masks at around £100 and a Gas Detector at around £500 - also a Pet Gas Mask for a reasonable £49.99.

 

You will, of course, be subjected to ridicule and demeaning abuse by the Members of their forums but once you have acquired the items you will be able to safely travel in your Motorhome at home and abroad with renewed confidence.

 

I wish you well.

 

Can I make it clear that Spireite is not a regular poster on Fruitcakes and his advice is not accurate.

 

You would be far better off by purchasing the Fruitcakes roof mounted .50 Calibre machine gun and the Flamethrower.

 

Also, if you have an inferior type of Motorhome (ie, not a Hymer) you can buy Hymer decals to use, which could double the value of your vehicle.

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Good afternoon people,

 

 

Someone once told me that in the old days of the cold war, the Soviets did in fact develop such a gas. How true this is I have no idea but this could be the condensed gas that would be required for such deeds.

 

norm

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Back to the OP.

 

Stay at home Thurlestone. Somewhere being that and the reality of life on the open road is where you will have to draw the line based on your own approach to risk. Better to follow your gut feeling because fear of crime can be a greater concern than actual crime. Too much security can make life a pain. So can too little.

 

Insurance companies have a businesslike approach to risk so if they thought break ins or gassing was a major problem, they would either hoist the premiums to unrealistic levels or give proper advice to their policy holders. Your insurance policy will tell you to 'take reasonable precautions to protect your vehicle at all times' or words to this effect. Reasonable will include having an alarm, not knowingly parking in dangerous areas, not leaving the vehicle unattended for long periods [say over 24 hours] etc.

 

I would ensure passive security is upper most in your mind. This is about being careful where you park and how much can estimate the value of what is in your van etc. Sometimes, a dog bowl outside or a butch dog lead on the passenger seat can work deter thieves. Apart from an alarm, immobilisation deterrents, I rely on common sense passive security. I have no fear of a gas attack but I don't discount one may happen to someone some day.

 

Also, I would seek advice from my insurer because it would have the claims record to either reassure you or frighten the living daylights out of you.

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747 and OP – I do apologise for not mentioning the roof mounted machine gun but my reluctance to point the OP in that direction was purely to help him avoid his MH being rated Classe 3 instead of Classe 2 on Toll roads due to the extra height.

 

The flamethrower has unfortunately come in for some criticism when the occasional thoughtless travellers have used them to ill effect at barbecue events to speed up the cooking time and, again, I was reluctant to promote this serious and worthy defence against the Gassing community.

 

Please accept my humble pardons.

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Spireite - 2016-10-19 7:45 PM

 

747 and OP – I do apologise for not mentioning the roof mounted machine gun but my reluctance to point the OP in that direction was purely to help him avoid his MH being rated Classe 3 instead of Classe 2 on Toll roads due to the extra height.

 

The flamethrower has unfortunately come in for some criticism when the occasional thoughtless travellers have used them to ill effect at barbecue events to speed up the cooking time and, again, I was reluctant to promote this serious and worthy defence against the Gassing community.

 

Please accept my humble pardons.

 

It should also be pointed out that none of the Fruitcake offerings have yet to receive EU approval ;-) ........which is somewhat remiss of the (Puke) Admin given his EU pontificating :D .......

 

 

 

 

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A FULL AND FRANK CONFESSION.

 

'Allo, it is I, René Francois Artois!

 

It was I who was responsible in 2014 for the 'gassed' family from Derby in their Motorhome, we in France call them Camping Cars, and I would like to make a full confession.

 

After the War I moved from my Café in the little village of Nouvion in Northern France to Bourges where I opened a new Café at a Motorway Service Station

 

My lovely wife Edith, Yvette and Mimi came with me to help and I was lucky to also have Lieutenant Gruber who cooks in the kitchen and goes to the Cash and Carry in his little tank.

 

The incident happened when a family of six from Derby stopped at my little café and parked their Camping Car in the nearby Service Station car park.

 

They brought their own food with them into the Café and irritated me by not buying any of dear Gubers delightfully cooked produce.

 

They asked for my finest Red wine, I wasn't going to waste any of that on the tight fisted group, and they were given a few bottles of the worst vintage I could muster.

 

During their long drinking session one of the members of the Resistance heard something that they had mentioned, and she told me only once, the words 'Madonna' and 'big boobs'.

 

This of course brought back memories of the picture of 'The Fallen Madonna and the Big Boobies' by Van Klomp and its whereabouts because it hasn't been seen in decades and must now be worth a fortune.

 

Apparently they had a suitcase in the Camping Car with the possibility that the long lost painting was inside the case.

 

After they left my little Café in an alcohol induced state after drinking the rough, but expensively priced, wine I had so generously served we formed a plan to steal the suitcase and relieve them of the picture of the Madonna and the Big Boobies.

 

When everyone inside the vehicle, suffering from the after effects of my 'finest' wine, finally succumbed to sleep Gruber parked his ageing smoky exhaust emitting little tank next to the Camping Car.

 

He climbed on top of his little tank and lowered a hook on a rope through the open sky light of the Camping Car and, bless him, lifted the suitcase out without disturbing the slumbering occupants.

 

We hurried back to the Café and eagerly opened the case.

 

To our bitter disappointment the suitcase only contained a couple of Madonna DVDs, some sweaty shirts and a couple of bras that would have fitted Mama Cass - and not the picture we so dearly craved.

 

When the family came back to my café the next morning complaining about bad headaches and a stolen suitcase I immediately referred them to Officer Crabtree.

 

His grasp of French and English completely bemused them, their own Derbyshire accent nullifying Crabtrees attempt at sorting out the English version of the problem, and he directed them to our local Hospital for some headache relieving tablets.

 

Yvette and Mimi's daughters work as Nurses at the Hospital, and with my guidance and advice, both girls intimated that it was obviously Carbon Monoxide poisoning that had effected the six English and not the worst tasting and smelling wine that anyone could possibly consume and get away without severe repercussions.

 

To my horror, and my horror has often been tested, the Derby family claimed around 2,000 of your English pounds for replacing the contents of the stolen suitcase.

 

I, Edith, and the two English airmen, who still haven't gone home despite frequent efforts to get rid of them, have trawled the Internet to find the real value of the contents and I'm afraid the optimistic estimate to be round €40 (£32) as most the items we saw were either possibly pirated versions of the delightful Madonna's DVDs or poor quality shirts and bras bought from Derby market.

 

I admit my involvement in the crime that your Newspapers reported in chilling detail but feel I have truthfully put my side of the story and insist that normally we would only serve such appalling wine to those who are naïve, stupid or downright thick – and that can't be you, can it?

 

Love to all, Rene.

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Guest pelmetman
starvin marvin - 2016-10-19 8:12 PM

 

globebuster - 2016-10-18 5:35 PM

 

Oh No! - what have you done!

 

Dave Pelmet will be along shortly, and maybe this will re-kindle the on-going ' I was gassed!' saga

 

Pages and pages and pages.............and pages of utter tosh :-D :-D

 

You were not wrong, right on the money.

 

Nowt wrong with a bit of Tosh ;-) ............some people will pay good money to read the Guardian 8-) .......

 

 

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Its lucky I stopped at this thread. I was on my way down to Chatter bollox to give Dave and Antony a good kicking as I like to do this time of an evening once ive had a few Leffes so lucky for you I did!

 

Yes indeed its a real and present danger, especially in that den of thieves, robbers and nasty foreign types that is Europe.

 

Here are the links to the products that you will need should you be daft enough to leave Blighty.

 

Gas Attack prevention products. https://sites.google.com/site/motorhomefruitcakes/gas-attack-products

 

Roof mounted protection products. https://sites.google.com/site/motorhomefruitcakes/roof-mounted-protection-products

 

And to cheer yourself up after all that doom and gloom, Hymer Decals. :D https://sites.google.com/site/motorhomefruitcakes/decals-and-fun-accessories

 

I thank you!

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