patandlynn Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Help we have a possible leak on our on board freshwater tank ( we have a hobby van ) any ideas how to get the tank out to check , or is it workshop job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Has the plug become loose, those tanks are really very strong. Have you just noticed a loss of water or can you see it leaking ? On my van if the nighttime temperature drops below 10 degrees a Truma boiler protection thingy opens a valve and water pours out from under the van. Is that it ? I bet the plug is loose, it happened to us because I didn't push it in hard enough after cleaning the tank out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Noody - 2016-10-29 8:07 AM Have you just noticed a loss of water or can you see it leaking ? On my van if the nighttime temperature drops below 10 degrees a Truma boiler protection thingy opens a valve and water pours out from under the van. Dumps the water at 10 degrees ?? i bet you won't be going any where cold then PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Pat Hobby has produced a number of “Van” models (based on Ford Transit or Fiat Ducato) and the position of the fresh-water tank and how it is installled will quite likely differ according to the particular model and its construction date. It woud be useful, therefore, if you provided details of the exact model of Hobby motorhome you own and when it was built just in case a forum-member has a similar vehicle and can assess how difficult it would be to remove the fresh-water tank, or has owned a similar vehicle in the past and can make an educated guess at the removal procedure. The first step in your case is to make every effort to establish whether the tank does have to be removed to address the water leak. You say that your motorhome’s tank has a “possible leak” and you want to know how hard it would be to remove the tank to check that assumption, but (as Noody suggests) you really need to focus on the probability of the tank itself being to blame for the leak or the cause of the leak being elsewhere (eg. a leakng water-hose near to the tank). If it’s decided that the tank is the probable culprit, but it's impossible to confirm that diagnosis without displacing the tank from its present position, then the tank will need to be moved. But if the tank is not at fault and the leak is coming from elsewhere and can be cured without removing the tank, plainly tank-removal would be wasted effort. I owned a Hobby T-600FC motorhome for 9 years. Its fresh-water tank was a big plastic cube located under the rear ‘french’ bed and (although I never attempted it) it was clear that tank-removal should have been well within the capability of anyone with basic DIY skills. Conversely, my present Rapido motorhome’s fresh-water tank (also under the rear bed) is heavily enclosed and looks like it would be an absolute swine to extract. Draining my Hobby's tank (and my Rapido’s) was via a drain-hose (connected to the tank) with an in-line drain-valve in it, not via a ‘plug’ in the floor of the tank as on Noody’s Burstner. There are some Hobby manuals on-line and these suggest that Hobby has standardised on the drain-hose/drain-valve arrangement for all recent-ish motorhome models. (I’m sure you know how to drain the fresh-water tank on your Hobby whatever method is employed.) A fault with the drain-hose or the drain-valve could result in a water leak, and it’s obviously something to check out. My feeling is that it should be reasonably easy for you to decide what’s likely to be involved in removing your tank and, consequently, whether you would want to tackle the task yourself. My own Hobby-related experience indicated that Hobby’s construction methodology tended to allow internal furniture and fittings to be dismantled straightforwardly, so you might get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 It opens the dump valve at PLUS ten degrees? Centigrade? That can't be right 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 It's 2 degrees. But when opened by low temperature will not reset below 8 degrees. Brian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 PJay - 2016-10-29 8:37 AM Noody - 2016-10-29 8:07 AM Have you just noticed a loss of water or can you see it leaking ? On my van if the nighttime temperature drops below 10 degrees a Truma boiler protection thingy opens a valve and water pours out from under the van. Dumps the water at 10 degrees ?? i bet you won't be going any where cold then PJay Truma’s advice about the operating principles of the electrical ‘anti-frost’ safety/drain valve fitted to their C-Series combination air/water heaters is as follows: "If the temperature at the safety/drain valve is less than 4°C, the water contents may discharge on its own accord if the appliance is not in operation (also if there is a failure). To avoid water loss, switch the device on (Summer or Winter mode) and close the safety/drain valve at the control knob by raising it up. Without heater operation, the safety/drain valve can only be closed again at temperatures above 8°C” The 4°C and 8°C temperatures are ‘measured’ by the safety/drain valve itself, so it’s the temperature within the motorhome that’s significant not the outside temperature. Even so, it’s still possible for the temperature within the motorhome to drop to 4°C and (in certain circumstances) for the complete contents of the motorhome’s fresh-water tank to be lost when the drain-valve opens. As has been discussed here many times in the past, lots of motorcaravanners choose to ‘jam’ Truma’s electrical drain-valve in its closed position rather than risk it opening spontaneously in cold weather. (Obviously, if Noody’s valve is opening at 10°C the valve is faulty.) Truma’s present automatic safety/drain valve is non-electrical and its ‘operating temperatures' are approximately 3°C and 7°C, rather than the 4°C and 8°C of the electrical version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 The obvious question to ask is: Is the leak inside the van? Or is it on to the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Thanks to Derek for explaining my dump-valve. That blxxxdy thing does irritate me because even when it's frosty it's never cold enough to freeze inside the van though that van was designed to cope with European winters. I have three choices, let it do,it's thing and if I use the van I just pull,the dump valve switch up. Second choice is I have a piece of spring-wire that holds the switch open, third, if the van is in use during winter it's likely to have some heating working so it doesn't dump but if you run of gas you're in trouble anyway. Sorry to digress, I hope you people find the source of your leak and a simple one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Noody - 2016-10-29 10:03 AM Thanks to Derek for explaining my dump-valve... The drain-valve’s operation is (fairly) well explained in Truma’s instruction leaflets. If you haven’t got the relevant documentation, you can download it from here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/trumatic_c_gb/trumatic_c_gb.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Thanks Derek, you're very helpful and knowledgable. I'm risking another digression on the basis the Poster for this thread isn't heavily involved, two days ago I found water in the passenger footwell of my van and started deep-breathing to control an angst moment. Last week I had a Stainless Steel exhaust fitted, they couldn't get my van through lift because of those Hymer rear view mirrors so they backed the van onto the lift and lifted the back so high it looked like 45 degrees so that may be how I got water in the footwell though the vent vents back into the filler hose. Just another something to solve. Then there will be something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Unless your motohome batteries are gel type, it might be wise to check that they haven’t leaked as a result of your vehicle’s rear being lifted. The maintenance-free batteries ftted to modern cars need to have a good deal of ‘tilt tolerance’ as the design of the road-transporters used to carry the vehicles means that the cars can be inclined at a very steep angle. A gel battery is genuinely ‘tilt proof’ and an AGM battery should be OK on its side. but I note that Trojan Batteries advises against tilting an oridinary flooded wet-acid battery more than 22 degrees from vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks again for that Derek. One of the main problems I have with being a loner when it comes to motorhoming is keeping-up. Last year I replaced all my batteries with silver type, I haven't looked yet but I'm sure they are not gel. The reason I moved to silver rather than the much talked about AGM and Gel was when I sent my EBL (Electronic control unit) for a repair the engineer talked about efficiency and had done his own testing so I took the advice. I better go see if there is any leaking, they do have vents but otherwise look sealed. It's a carpets-up job but I do need to do a lot of vacuuming now the van is all back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I’m guessing that you are referring to “Allan” of A & N Caravans and that you now have Varta "Professional Dual Purpose” batteries (or the Bosch equivalent). Varta’s advice http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/technology/tech-leisure/flooded-technology/ is that these batteries have "Sealed construction Leak-proof – unlike conventional flooded batteries, VARTA Professional Dual Purpose is spill-proof and can be tilted up to an angle of 90° for short periods.” It seems unlikely that your motorhome would have been inclined to an angle of 45 degrees (that’s a helluva tilt!) and anything less than that should be OK with the Varta/Bosch dual-purpose batteries. Still worth checking though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Just a thought . Water in the footwell could be from the heater/aircon unit. there is a drain pipe to take it to the outside . The pipe sometimes becomes blocked, or party blocked allowing water to spill into the footwell, particularly if the van has been lifted . Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks for that Brian, but, I hope I have this right. That pipe you refer to discharges over the gear-shift pivot point and causes a few problems getting into fifth gear. Are we talking the same ? I have a new idea, my water tank was half full. Water trickled out of the filler, along the body then into the doorway that may not have been pushed against the rubbers hard enough to seal the doorway. I can't see anywhere else for the water to get into the footwell. Last time that happened I had to take half of the van to bits and rebuild the bottom of the wall panel and some floor. Rain had tracked through the trim that joins the main body panel to the skirt, eventually rusting the steel screws that should have been Stainless and then into the bodywork. I watched it happening from the inside on a rainy day, scandalously poor work with no quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On my LHD Hymer, the drain pipe runs from the base of the heater/aircon unit ,under the dashboard , and exits near the R/H wheel arch . Brian B. ps I have had mine block several times and spill water into the footwell . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 It's a good tip Brian so thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patandlynn Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Thanks , Derek for your reply, sorry I didn't respond sooner but that little thing called work got in the way! Our Van is a hobby van 500, based on a ford transit, well my son in law, who has tool kit matched only by screwfix , helped me try to locate said leak. We thought it was coming from the drain off valve, which is exactly what you said. Sadly there is such a mass of pipes and wires and sealant in a very small space we were not confident to take things any further and have booked it into our local dealer. Thanks once again for your advice. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noody Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Hello Pat. Please keep us in touch with this, it's a new one for me. Just to re-iterate a comment I made about the drain plug becoming loose, it happened to me yesterday after sterilising my tanks and doing the final fiillup. I think the rush of incoming water particularly in an empty tank, pushed against the string that keeps the plug attached to the tank lid and pulls the plug slightly then my tank started dribbling. For the nitpickers, it isn't string. It's a piece of high quality woven parachute line rather than the stupid chain thing you see attaching a plug to a sink in the old-days. I had a look under my van in the area the tank is built-in, that would be a nightmare to remove. If fact in the case of my van it would be easier to remove it by cutting the floor out above it. I hope you don't need good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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