rooster63 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I have a CBE PC-200 control panel for the electrics on my campervan and it looks like from the wiring diagram that it should be able to charge the starter battery once the leisure battery is fully charged. For that to happen does the unit be need to be switched on or will it happen whether the unit is switched on or off? (Of course I'm talking about when EHU is connected). I have noticed that if i haven't used the van for 3 or 4 days that the charge has dropped quite a bit, down to about 12.4V and went down to 11.8V with the consequence that the van wouldn't start after being away for 10 days. Have tried leaving the EHU connected and looking at the voltage read outs but as I tend to use the van most days it is difficult to tell if the battery is charging or not. The engine charging system works fine and it is a new battery and the garage checked for abnormal discharge when it was being serviced. I have got a voltmeter and put on the terminals with the EHU of and on but no difference in reading but that could be because the leisure battery was still being charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QFour Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 http://www.tekyinblack.com/motorhome/components/electrics-cbe-pc-200/ A lot depends on who the converter is and how old. It should be connected to both the habitation and starter batteries. We have a CBE System in our Laika and all the batteries ( 3 ) are charged just by plugging in the EHU cable. If the battery is going flat on site then you are possibly missing some of the circuit components. You don't say what make of MH you have but you could try an email to the Head Office and ask the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Assume by your reply that it doesn't matter whether the CBE unit is switched on or off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthmover Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Hi rooster63, With our Chausson M/H the CBE panel needs to be switched on otherwise it will only charge the liesure battery, with it switched on it will put a small charge into the S/Batt. If you where to fit a battery master this will provide a trickle charge to the starter battery from the liesure battery if the S/Batt drops half a volt below the L/Batt. Enough to allieviate starting up problems?. cheers Em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 rooster63 CBE documentation for a PC-100/PC-200/DS-300 system can be found here http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/pdf/PC100_PC200_DS300_ENcircuits.pdf Page 16 describes battery charging and (as Earthmover has said) when the vehicle is on EHU and its battery-charger running a low amperage ‘maintenance’ charge should be provided to the starter-battery. There is nothing in this CBE document to suggest that the control-panel must be switched on before starter-battery charging takes place, but how CBE systems operate can vary from motorhome manufacturer to manufacturer and from CBE system to CBE system. My previous Hobby motorhome had a CBE system with PC-100 control-panel and its starter-battery was charged irrespective of the control-panel being switched on. My present Rapido also has a CBE system and its control-panel is a PC-180. On EHU the system definitely charges the starter-battery as well as the leisure-battery and (as far as I’m aware) the control-panel does not need to be switched on to allow this to happen. Chausson motorhome electrics are a law unto themselves, and I note that recent Chausson Owner Manuals advise that starter-battery charging from an EHU is not possible despite a CBE system similar (on paper) to my Rapido’s being fitted. Suggest you begin by connecting your motorhome to an EHU and then check the voltage at your leisure-battery’s terminals to confirm whether the control-panel needs to be switched on in order for the leisure-battery to be charged. Logically, the leisure-battery OUGHT to be charged with the control-panel switched on or off, but in the unlikely event that it needs to be switched on for leisure-battery charging to occur, it’s near certain that starter-battery charging will not take place with the control-panel switched off. Once you’ve established what happens control-panel-wise, fully charge the leisure-battery and then (with the battery-charger operating) check the voltage at the starter-battery terminals. My (limited) experience is that the charge provided to the starter-battery is not only low amperage but also reduced voltage. So, although you might read 14+ volts at the leisure-battery’s terminals when the battery-charger is running, the voltage at the starter-battery’s terminals may be in the mid-13s. My Rapido’s CBE control-panel readout (and the Hobby’s previously) provides a clear indication that the starter-battery is being charged from EHU as well as the leisure-battery, so there was no real need for me to check at the battery terminals (though I still did just to be sure!) If testing shows that your starter-battery is not being charged via EHU, it may be (as QFour has suggested) that the converter never exploited that capability when installing the CBE system. Given that you own a PJB “Bacca” (which may well be unique) and the converter ceased trading years ago, the best way to decide if that’s so may be to check the wiring between the starter-battery and the CBE Distribution Box. If there’s no connecting cabling, there’ll be no EHU charging. Of course, even if there is connecting cabling and the system should charge the starter-battery, there may be a fault (fuse or component failure) preventing it doing so. Unless there’s a continuous drain on the starter-battery when the vehicle is immobile, I would have thought that (particularly if the battery is new) 10 days out of action should not prevent the vehicle being started. Plainly, if a starter-battery’s charge-state is low to begin with and it is not recharged, there will come a time when it won’t start the motor, but what you’ve described doesn’t sound right. There’s a good deal of on-line discussion about unusually rapid starter-battery discharging on Boxers and Ducatos that you may wish to look at https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=peugeot+boxer+battery+drain https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fiat+ducato+battery+drain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Earthmover - 2016-11-22 8:54 PM Hi rooster63, With our Chausson M/H the CBE panel needs to be switched on otherwise it will only charge the liesure battery, with it switched on it will put a small charge into the S/Batt. If you where to fit a battery master this will provide a trickle charge to the starter battery from the liesure battery if the S/Batt drops half a volt below the L/Batt. Enough to allieviate starting up problems?. cheers Em A battery master monitors both the Habitation battery and the Starter battery (taking power from both in doing so) moving power from the habitation battery to the Starter battery if the Starter battery drops more than 0.75v below the Habitation battery. I don't know how much power is consumed by the battery master in transferring the charge, but it won't be 100% efficient. So with this type of device you have power loss during charging, and it is constantly running down both batteries. Although only by small amounts. The biggest problem though, is that if you take 0.75v away from a full 12.7v battery you can end up with one that is 12v and pretty much fully discharged and unable to start an engine. A battery that sits at 0.75v below full, will Sulphate and die. Better to adopt an efficient solution which maintains both batteries at full charge. Battery Masters are no longer the best solution. While they were a reasonable choice 10 years ago and work for many, there are better, more efficient ways of tackling Starter battery charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 There are several commercially-available devices that will aid maintenance of a motorhome’s starter-battery charge-state. The CBE CSB2 http://www.cbe.it/en/csb2/ and the Sterling Power "Battery Maintainer" http://sterling-power.com/products/battery-to-battery-charger-maintainer can both be used to pass charge from a motothome’s leisure-battery to the starter-battery when the former is being charged. Van Bitz’s “Battery Master” differs http://www.vanbitz.com/product/battery-master/ being a battery ‘balancing’ device that will pass charge from the leisure-battery to the starter-battery even when the former is not being charged. The simplest/cheapest way to maintain a starter-battery’s charge-state when a motorhome is to be out of use for a while is probably Clive Mott-Gotobed’s ‘bridging fuse’ ploy http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm that temporarily connects the starter-battery and leisure-battery in parallel. (The relative merits/disadvantages of all of the above have been mulled over many times here and on other motorhome forums.) In rooster63’s case, as his PJB “Bacca” motorhome’s electrical system is based on CBE components and may already have an inherent capability to charge the starter-battery via a 230V ECU, before modifying the existing system it would make sense to confirm what the system can or cannot do and what it is doing at present. It’s repeating the obvious, but if the Bacca’s starter-battery is losing charge abnormally quickly when the vehicle is not in regular use, if the starter-battery is not charged during the lay-off period eventually it will be incapable of starting the motor. Putting aside charging via a non-EHU system (eg. solar or wind) the Battery Master is the only device I’m aware of that functions without the motorhome being connected to a 230V EHU. Fitting one should help to offset the Bacca’s starter-battery loss of charge, but it would be treating symptoms rather than addressing the problem itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 My PVC is now over 10 years old and still has the original starter battery. The vehicle is only lightly used. It is left on permanent charge via the CBE PC200 system when not in use. I have not had any starting problems. As has been stated previously the voltage delivered to the starter battery is about 0.4V lower than the leisure battery due to there being a shcottky diode in the connection to the starter battery. The charging current is limited to about 2A max by a Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) thermistor. As has been stated by Derek, there a many versions of the PC200 system. My attempt to rationalise these results in four main variations. These are 3 stud, or 4 stud main power connections at the 12V Distribution Board, and with or without isolating relays (Boite de Securitie), in the battery connections. As the isolating relays are connected between the batteries and the CBE 12V Distribution Board, they will have to be operated before charging can take place. The main difference between the 3 and 4 connecting stud units seems to be that the 3 stud units require an external shunt to measure B" current, while the 4 stud unit uses an internal (Hall effect?) device to monitor B2 current. The charging circuit for the starting battery, B1, also includes a relay internal to the distribution board. This relay is controlled via the "S" , or mains ON signal from the CBE 516 charger. This signal also controls the mains ON signal (mains plug graphic) on the PC200 display unit. If this signal is not present there will not be any mains charging connection to B1, the starter battery. To sumarise if relays "Boite de Seciurite" are fitted, a master switch will have to be ON. The "S" signal from the charger must be connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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