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Spare wheel


MagHal

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Been thinking just lately about putting the spare wheel on the front of the van to get some weight off the rear axle. Apart from making the overall vehicle longer and the necessity of fabricating a sturdy mounting bracket does anyone have any thoughts?
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I'm not sure about how legal it would be. Maybe try asking your insurance company as it would be classed as a modification.

 

PS Why do you think the last Land Rovers didn't have spare wheels on the bonnet?

 

Keith.

 

And don't forget it may have an adverse effect on your engine cooling :(

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Mag&Hal

 

There is a precedent for doing this with rear-engined VW Transporters (see attached photo) where fixing a spare-wheel (complete with tyre) to the front should improve weight distribution, but these vehicles were air-cooled and the front-mounted wheel would not have interfered with air-flow through a radiator.

 

A spare-wheel mounted vertically in front of your Peugeot Boxer’s radiator grille would (as Keithl warns) block a lot of the air that should flow through the radiator from doing so, and I would have thought that overheating would be an inevitable consequence. Also, although it should be practicable to fabricate a sufficiently strong structure to carry the spare-wheel, it’s hard to see how this could be done without butchering the vehicle’s front bodywork.

 

Suggest you forget the idea...

829398039_sparewheel.jpg.60b9bdd1d5d9d5ffaf26a10837163a53.jpg

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This link shows a front-mounted spare-wheel with some photos of the mounting structure

 

http://www.whiteacorn.com/opage/theamericas/prep

 

I’m not sure whether carrying a spare-wheel on the front would infringe any UK construction/use regulations as long as it was securely fixed, but it’s not easy to see how one could do this on a 2005 Compass Avantgarde (photo attached).

 

There can be little doubt, however, that adding a structure strong enough to carry a spare-wheel would impact negatively on the vehicle’s front ‘crumple zone’ and (as Agaric highlights) might well count against the vehicle’s owner/driver in the event of an accident. Approval for the modification definitely should be sought from the vehicle-owner’s insurance provider due to the obvious safety issues.

Avantgarde.jpg.503db91f646412f38c56b045eff0b416.jpg

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Derek Uzzell - 2016-12-15 8:00 AM

 

Mag&Hal

 

There is a precedent for doing this with rear-engined VW Transporters (see attached photo) where fixing a spare-wheel (complete with tyre) to the front should improve weight distribution, but these vehicles were air-cooled and the front-mounted wheel would not have interfered with air-flow through a radiator.

 

A spare-wheel mounted vertically in front of your Peugeot Boxer’s radiator grille would (as Keithl warns) block a lot of the air that should flow through the radiator from doing so, and I would have thought that overheating would be an inevitable consequence. Also, although it should be practicable to fabricate a sufficiently strong structure to carry the spare-wheel, it’s hard to see how this could be done without butchering the vehicle’s front bodywork.

 

Suggest you forget the idea...

 

 

Good afternoon ,

 

This overheating problem can be overcome by simply taking the bonnet off to let the hot air escape.

 

norm

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The roof may not be strong enough to be an option on an Elldis but for some it is, especially if the van has a ladder already when it is often not too hard to add a roof rack or wheel support load spreader forward of the rear wheels.

 

Many vans are not made to accept such weight on the roof so do be careful as leaky vans are common enough without encouraging it!

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Not sure about roof mounting. Weight on the roof apart (not a minor consideration for a steel wheel and tyre), the high set load would not assist stability and, since flat tyres seldom seem to occur on nice, level, lightly trafficked, tarmac roads, in daylight, on dry days, you would be left to retrieve about 25kg (55lb) of spare from your roof under whatever conditions prevailed. Just don't throw it down, they bounce like rugby balls, and disappear in the most unexpected directions! :-) Far from ideal should it happen, though in normal use flat tyres are a fairly uncommon occurrence these days. Just depends on your expectations of Sod's Law! :-D
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It's interesting that the front mounting of kit (not forgetting the cooling issue) would not be allowed in the UK, by one authority or another. Just returned from the US (litigation centre of the world) were bikes are mounted on a rack bolted to the front of buses, which was the same when we visited Canada, were there where loads of "bull bars" fitted to pickups and the like.

 

I don't suppose it matters a lot, if as a pedestrian you get wacked by a bus, or a pickup for that matter, with or without a bike on the front, 'cos it will still have the rack fitted.

 

 

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Whilst not advocating roof fitting as ideal it is probably no worse for weight in the wrong place than a fitted mains or 12v air con unit either internally or externally and it does at least shift weight from behind the rear axle to ahead of it.

 

I used a roof rack for the spare wheel on an old Bedford CF Autohomes many years ago and whilst any coachbuilts are not known for their handling it was no worse with or without the wheel on the roof but the wheel was heavy and needed a rope to load and off load it - best done before jacking.

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starvin marvin - 2016-12-15 6:44 PM

 

It's interesting that the front mounting of kit (not forgetting the cooling issue) would not be allowed in the UK, by one authority or another...

 

The possible ‘illegality’ in the UK of Mag&Hal’s idea was just something Keithl was speculating about. However, there are UK regulations that apply to ‘bull bars’ that might have some bearing on the idea.

 

http://mocktheorytest.com/resources/are-bull-bars-legal-in-the-uk/

 

As far as Mag&Hal roof-mounting a spare-wheel is concerned, the original posting does not ask how a spare-wheel might be carried on the motorhome, but about moving the vehicle’s spare-wheel from its present mounted-at-the-rear position to the front to reduce the weight on the rear axle.

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Agaric - 2016-12-15 12:53 PM

 

Retro fitting a spare wheel to the front of a vehicle would probably break a few rules.

 

The first thing that springs to mind is pedestrian collision, that VW would not be allowed under the new regs.

 

Possibly ? But there are plenty of vehicles running around with winches,towbars ertc., on the front and some of the pieces of metal sticking out of the front of the many tractors that fly around our lanes are like joisting poles. A nice spare wheel in front would be nice and soft in comparison.

City rules, that have little meaning and make no sense in the Countryside.

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Rayjsj - 2016-12-16 7:43 AM

 

Agaric - 2016-12-15 12:53 PM

 

Retro fitting a spare wheel to the front of a vehicle would probably break a few rules.

 

The first thing that springs to mind is pedestrian collision, that VW would not be allowed under the new regs.

 

Possibly ? But there are plenty of vehicles running around with winches,towbars ertc., on the front and some of the pieces of metal sticking out of the front of the many tractors that fly around our lanes are like joisting poles. A nice spare wheel in front would be nice and soft in comparison.

City rules, that have little meaning and make no sense in the Countryside.

 

My tractors don't come with pedestrian regulations, my JCB telescopic has a fair few very serious bits of metal sticking out of it but then most of these types of machines put in very few road miles.

 

A few years ago I took the bull bars off my second hand Range Rover I'd bought as my MOT garage said it was going to probably fail in the future the way things were going, plus they made the thing look ugly and weighed a lot.

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All,

 

Many thanks for your ideas and wit.

 

Apart from the rear axle load, recovering the spare from underneath the van is uncomfortable even in good conditions.

My Avantgarde has a chrome tubular fender on the front that is strong enough to stand on (I'm no lightweight) so I think the only real tech issues are cooling and train length.

 

I will enquire further about the legality purely out of interest as some of you have pointed out it simply may not be legal though I'm not so sure I'd pursue the idea even if it was.

 

Thanks again

 

Hal

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I looked into mounting the spare wheel at the front 4 years ago, as I had done so going back into the 70's on a Bedford CF long wheelbase self-conversion.

At that time the radiator fan was mechanical, so always in operation.

After consulting various sources I concluded:-

1 - Cooling with electric fan could be a problem as it would be working in excess of design.

2 - Would be detrimental to effectivity of the Air Bags & invalidate any Warranty.

3 - Would be contrary to Construction & Use Regulations & in the event of an accident would invalidate Insurance,

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Archiesgrandad - 2016-12-17 8:12 PM

 

I'm not an authority on these things, but I'm pretty sure that my Kontiki and the elderly Hymer, both on the old Sevel chassis had the spare wheel mounted above the engine under the bonnet. My present Pilote could probably be adapted to be the same. Just a thought.

AGD

 

First generation (pre-1994) Ducatos and Talbot Express motorhomes could carry a spare wheel in the engine compartment (photo attached) but the wheel/tyre combination was relatively compact. The original Fiat Panda also had its spare wheel under-bonnet, as did Reliant Scimitar GTEs. But there’s no chance that a spare wheel could be shoehorned beneath the bonnet of a 2005 Peugeot Boxer-based Compass Avantgarde 200.

 

What would dissuade me from doing this would not be technical issues like ensuring the support-structure was strong enough or addressing potential cooling problems, nor ‘illegality’, nor safety in the event of an accident, but how ugly it would look and the hilarity it would inevitably provoke.

Talbot.jpg.2565eac7e0cd95ca1051d99be43f2c68.jpg

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derek pringle - 2016-12-17 8:54 AM

 

hi all,

Is there not a spray you can use in each wheel to give a better internal protection and like some cars carry an injector in the boot. My 2012 Mercedes had this method and no spare wheel[car not m/h].

Could be beneficial to fit Tyron bands first.

cheers

derek

Derek, have you ever had to use one of these aerosol cans in anger ? I have, they are totally useless, and the tyre compressor inadequate....in short a waste of space. Now i would not accept ANY vehicle that didnt have some kind of spare wheel, even if only a space saver. No exceptions,

Not had any experience of pre-injected goo, but still doesnt take the place of a proper spare wheel.

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And largely academic in Hal’s case as his Avantgarde carries a spare wheel...

 

If Hal wanted to save weight by dispensing with the spare wheel a ‘Fix&Go’-type kit would be an option. But he wants to retain the spare wheel and (if practicable) mount it on the front of the motorhome where it would be more accessible and reduce the rear-axle’s loading.

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