The best Negotiating Position?

[StuartO]

We know there are some among EU politicians who want to punish the UK for leaving so the PM's positioning speech of last week seems to me to set the optimum tone for negotiations - we have decided to leave and we're not kidding, so let's be sensible and cut a mutually advantageous trading deal.  No point in hurting each other.

 

But our Opposition Parties, Labour, Liberals and especially the SNP, want Parliament to be empowered to back seat drive things through the negotiations by requiring the Government to keep reporting back - and to have a final vote on whether to accept whatever the Government have negotiated.  Indeed the Liberals want another Referendum at that stage. The SNP are planning to put 50 amendments, presumably with the aim of trying to bog things down and delay or block Brexit if they can.  They are dressing it up differently but that's what it boils down to.

 

The Lisbon Treaty give a Country which wants to leave no option to reverse tracks and stay in once an Article 50 notification has been made so the Opposition idea of having an end-of-negotiations vote in Parliament could only try to abandon leaving by asking all 27 other EU countries to decide unanimously to allow it.

 

So announcing ahead of negotiations that Parliament wants to back seat drive during negotiations and also to have a final vote after negotiations will impose the worst possible negotiating position on our Government, putting us back in the negotiating position David Cameron was in last year.  The EU negotiators will assume (as some already do) that UK doesn't really want to leave and that the UK Parliament will tell the UK Government to go back and (under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty) to beg to be allowed to stay unless the negotiations don't deliver a good deal for UK, such as continued membership of the single market.  So the EU negotiators will know they have this leverage and simply refuse to agree to any reasonable deal.

 

So we need to support the PM's tough line about leaving and allow the Government to get on with negotiating without Parliament interferring in the detail.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Nah.....we need an election to get rid of the deadwood >:-) .........

 

 

[malc d]

Surely we are not " negotiating leaving " - which is the way it is presented on TV.

 

We are negotiating our relationship with the EU after we have left.

 

(?)

[Guest pelmetman]

Looks like its going to get dirty >:-) ........

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4155110/Ministers-plot-create-temporary-peers-force-Brexit.html

 

Maybe I can offer my services as a temporary Lord :D .........Lord Elp Us of Calpe B-) ......

 

 

[StuartO]

Labour have promised not to block the notification under Article 50 so unless they are willing to renage on that, the Government can simply decline to provide more detail and insist on a vote to authorise the notification, yes or no.  Tories plus Labour in the Commons equals a majority, so it goes through.

 

But the SNP and Liberals are threatenning to block if they can, so in the House of Lords, perhaps they could.  Hence maybe the Government's threat to create lots of extra temporary peers if necessary.  Having to do that to ensure the "will of the people" goes through would presumably start the ball rolling for a big reform of the Lords, so it couldn't happen again.

 

The "will of the people" argument for not blocking progress towards Leaving seems to have taken hold.  If the Government have to delay notification under Article 50 because of interference by any/all the Opposition, Commons or Lords, I doubt it would do much harm as long as they ultimately get it through.  Worst case scenario I suppose we have a general election and a clearout of the Lords.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

StuartO - 2017-01-25 11:48 AMWorst case scenario I suppose we have a general election and a clearout of the Lords.

I'd say that was the best case scenario B-) ..........

[John52]

So either you give politicians Carte Blanche to negotiate in secret, or you make them put it to a vote - Where EU negotiators can see our hand and we can't see theirs. Neither way is satisfactory Just another problem that was ignored in the referendum.

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-01-25 12:23 PM

StuartO - 2017-01-25 11:48 AMWorst case scenario I suppose we have a general election and a clearout of the Lords.

I'd say that was the best case scenario B-) ..........

Doesn't work like thatthough does it. Both parties keep putting their stooges in the Lords, give jobs to their mates to repay favours etc, so the absurdly overpopulated House of Lords is already bigger than the whole of the EU Parliament for 27 countries. And this is the Government you thought would be better than the EU *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2017-01-25 2:54 PM

pelmetman - 2017-01-25 12:23 PM

StuartO - 2017-01-25 11:48 AMWorst case scenario I suppose we have a general election and a clearout of the Lords.

I'd say that was the best case scenario B-) ..........

Doesn't work like thatthough does it. Both parties keep putting their stooges in the Lords, give jobs to their mates to repay favours etc, so the absurdly overpopulated House of Lords is already bigger than the whole of the EU Parliament for 27 countries. And this is the Government you thought would be better than the EU *-)

Have you missed the word "temporary" ;-) ............Sounds like a cracking idea to me...... bringing a few Brexiteers into the house of lords to get the job done as cheaply and as quickly as possible B-) ..........Karma >:-) .........