teflon2 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 The vote is now activate article 50. 498-114 against perhaps now everyone can bury their differences and pull together to make Exit a success however they voted. We are all in it together so make the best of it. John (^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I'd like to echo that John but I'm afraid the reality is quite different ... Many have accepted the result as much as they did not want to leave but we have a minority among Remain voters who will not let go , see nothing but doom , gloom and despair and would talk down even a good Brexit plan ... Thankfully it's now more or less set in stone and Gina's two minutes of fame will get her a book deal I'm sure , unfortunately we will still have to put up with a few protesters ... They are a bit like indigestion ... Eventually it/they will go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 teflon2 - 2017-02-01 8:45 PM The vote is now activate article 50. 498-114 against perhaps now everyone can bury their differences and pull together to make Exit a success however they voted. We are all in it together so make the best of it. John (^) Nice sentiment but the problem is there is a division in this country and most of the western world now that cannot be healed and in the UK the two sides will both want different kinds of Brexit. Now that Parliament have a say in what type of Brexit they will accept if anything the gloves are off and its a campaign to fight for the right Brexit for the UK or if it seems impossible, no Brexit at all! The referendum may have been won by a tiny margin by "leave" but regarding how we leave is as much the right of every person and every MP in this country to decide upon as it is those who ticked Leave last year. Its going to be messy for sure. Dont expect differences to be put aside any time soon, its a long way from being over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 teflon2 - 2017-02-01 8:45 PM The vote is now activate article 50. 498-114 against perhaps now everyone can bury their differences and pull together to make Exit a success however they voted. We are all in it together so make the best of it. John (^) :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-02-01 10:01 PM Its going to be messy for sure. Dont expect differences to be put aside any time soon, its a long way from being over. >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-02-01 9:02 PM unfortunately we will still have to put up with a few protesters ... They are a bit like indigestion ... Eventually it/they will go away (lol) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I agree in principle that the vote wasn’t for any particular terms in respect of the exit and a democratic process in relation to those terms has to be followed. I see problems ahead with the practicalities in that we can’t dictate the terms upon which we leave we have to negotiate them. All parliament can do is agree a list of wants. In any negotiation between sides those wants have a bottom line but the other side is given a fictional list that everyone knows exceeds what one side is prepared to accept. We can’t reveal our bottom line as that undermines the whole mechanism of negotiation. I’m not sure how this is going to work in the end and how a settlement can be reached within the two years given the scope of what had to be agreed. I wonder how many people would have voted the way they did had they truly understood what problems might arise in terms of the process of the negotiations as opposed to what was to be the subject of them before the referendum. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-02-02 10:37 AM I wonder how many people would have voted the way they did had they truly understood what problems might arise in terms of the process of the negotiations as opposed to what was to be the subject of them before the referendum. Veronica There are a suprising number of people who say "Just leave", don't give a damn about any negotiations. From what comments I've heard lately coming out of europe it's only just beginning to dawn on many in the EU that might happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-02-02 10:37 AM I wonder how many people would have voted the way they did had they truly understood what problems might arise in terms of the process of the negotiations as opposed to what was to be the subject of them before the referendum. Veronica Remoaners see problems........Brexiteers see opportunities ;-) ...........But I fear we may not get the opportunity to leave the EU.......As the chances of it still being around in two years is 50/50 at best >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 colin - 2017-02-02 10:55 AM Violet1956 - 2017-02-02 10:37 AM I wonder how many people would have voted the way they did had they truly understood what problems might arise in terms of the process of the negotiations as opposed to what was to be the subject of them before the referendum. Veronica There are a suprising number of people who say "Just leave", don't give a damn about any negotiations. From what comments I've heard lately coming out of europe it's only just beginning to dawn on many in the EU that might happen. I believe your are right Colin. My Brexit friends come to come from that camp. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 colin - 2017-02-02 10:55 AM Violet1956 - 2017-02-02 10:37 AM I wonder how many people would have voted the way they did had they truly understood what problems might arise in terms of the process of the negotiations as opposed to what was to be the subject of them before the referendum. Veronica There are a suprising number of people who say "Just leave", don't give a damn about any negotiations. From what comments I've heard lately coming out of europe it's only just beginning to dawn on many in the EU that might happen. Exactly, whats the point in negotiations on how to abandon a sinking ship?........ Lets just jump into the WTO lifeboat ;-) ......... https://www.lombardiletter.com/euro-collapse-heres-why-the-eurozone-could-implode-in-2017/6506/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 An interesting item in 'The Express'...(should quieten the Daily Wail knockers) delivers as follows with the comments made by Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel :Germany’s determination to enforce austerity measures is promoting far right nationalism and could even result in Marine Le Pen winning the French election, said Mr Gabriel. Mr Gabriel claims he raised the issue of German fiscal rigidity actually damaging the harmony of the EU, but the Chancellor was not able to give him a satisfactory answer.He said: “I once asked the Chancellor, what would be more costly for Germany: for France to be allowed to have half a percentage point more deficit, or for Marine Le Pen to become president?"Until today, she still owes me an answer.”He said: “I also know about the state of the EU. It is no longer unthinkable that it breaks apart.“Should that happen, our children and grandchildren would curse us. “Because Germany is the biggest beneficiary of the European community - economically and politically.” ...........interesting comments from Germany's Vice Chancellor regarding Germany's 'control' of austerity affecting the EU 'AND' allowing France to increase it's deficit!!!So the comments from the 'horses mouth' clearly indicate just which country 'controls' the monolith that is the EU.......let's get article 50 implemented as soon as is humanly possible because I for one do not wish to live under a regime 'dictated to' or otherwise controlled by Germany. Oh and more recently:Several German officials have underlined the need for their country and the EU to swiftly seize economic opportunities arising from the US cancellation of global trade deals and a British withdrawal from the 28-nation bloc, commonly known as Brexit. Speaking at a meeting of her Christian Democrats (CDU) in the city of Greifswald, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Berlin and the EU would seek new trade agreements with other countries.Seems the sense of urgency is somewhat an undignified rush by Merkel to 'put one over' on the UK..........now that's the surest sign of a bully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-02-02 11:04 AM colin - 2017-02-02 10:55 AM Violet1956 - 2017-02-02 10:37 AM I wonder how many people would have voted the way they did had they truly understood what problems might arise in terms of the process of the negotiations as opposed to what was to be the subject of them before the referendum. Veronica There are a suprising number of people who say "Just leave", don't give a damn about any negotiations. From what comments I've heard lately coming out of europe it's only just beginning to dawn on many in the EU that might happen. I believe your are right Colin. My Brexit friends come to come from that camp. Veronica apols for grammar " tend to come" from that camp is what I meant. Though I don't think we can assume every Brexiter did not give a damn about the negotiations when they voted out. As I see it that was the flaw in the holding a referendum in the first place to decide such an issue. It has been lauded as a democratic exercise but in reality it was not because the self same electorate who voted on it are not the people who get to decide on the terms of our exit. Lest I be considered a whingeing remoaner, I accept that Brexit means Brexit on any terms the government can negotiate without further reference to the people via a referendum on those terms. I think that would seriously undermine the strength of the government's negotiating position. If I were the MP in a majority remain constituency I would not try to block triggering Article 50 or try to put other obstacles in the government's path after it has triggered. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 This is short. Two paragraphs.....The Lisbon Treaty, Artical 8 Dave 1. The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation. 2. For the purposes of paragraph 1, the Union may conclude specific agreements with the countries concerned. These agreements may contain reciprocal rights and obligations as well as the possibility of undertaking activities jointly. Their implementation shall be the subject of periodic consultation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 nowtelse2do - 2017-02-02 7:38 PM This is short. Two paragraphs.....The Lisbon Treaty, Artical 8 Dave 1. The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation. 2. For the purposes of paragraph 1, the Union may conclude specific agreements with the countries concerned. These agreements may contain reciprocal rights and obligations as well as the possibility of undertaking activities jointly. Their implementation shall be the subject of periodic consultation. That was before the EU became the fourth reich (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 And now the euro is dropping or should that be the penny :-D Dave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4182540/We-need-City-deal-admits-Brussels.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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