John52 Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Has anyone else noticed the number of new build homes - even detached homes - being sold leasehold? I wonder how many of the buyers realise they are not buying the house and land - that belongs to someone else. They are just paying some of the rent up front. In the current English housing shortage you can sell anything, but if the English housing shortage lessens they won't be able to sell some of these - nobody will want to buy leasehold if they don't have to, when they realise what it means :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-05 12:46 PM Has anyone else noticed the number of new build homes - even detached homes - being sold leasehold? I wonder how many of the buyers realise they are not buying the house and land - that belongs to someone else. They are just paying some of the rent up front. In the current English housing shortage you can sell anything, but if the English housing shortage lessens they won't be able to sell some of these - nobody will want to buy leasehold if they don't have to, when they realise what it means :-( I suspect its a London and SE issue ;-) .........My piece of Lincolnshire is bought and paid for B-) ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Definitely not a Scottish Issue. Cannot have a long leasehold for residential property end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Leasehold used to be common, especially in Londobig houses which will be leasehold. Purpose-built retirement properties (maisonettes or flats) tend to be leasehold and even though the lease usually lasts for a very long time (eg 125 years, so the initial buyer will be long gone when the lease expires) the landlord will then recover possession of the property - so its market value will fall as the end of lease gets closer. After 125 years perhaps the thinking is that the property will need rebuilding by then anyway, so it makes sense for one owner to do the redeveloping of the whole development. In the meantime the landlord is entitled to collect whatever ground rent is provided for in the lease, often a modest sum like £40 per year and, unless the leease holders get together to exercise their legal right to tkae over management of the development, appoint a managemnt agent to collect service charges and run the common services. Unfortunately sharp practice started to come into the picture because landlords started to feed extra opportunities to make money into the leases by awarding themselves the right to charge fees, for example a Transfer Fee when a flat or maisonette was sold and this was sometimes turned into a scandalous rip off, to the extent that the Office of Fair Trading got involved and declared such practice to be an unfair codition of contract, which the leaseholder could therefore seek to get set aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Mine has 971 years to go, I don't think i'll be around then.....and the way the house was built, I don't think it will be either. That's assuming there will be any humans left to live in it. 8-) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I'm so glad it was you John52 that raised the subject of Lloyd George, wasn't it he who was hounded into retirement because he made his families fortunes by selling peerages to wealthy landowners? AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Archiesgrandad - 2017-02-06 6:21 PM I'm so glad it was you John52 that raised the subject of Lloyd George, wasn't it he who was hounded into retirement because he made his families fortunes by selling peerages to wealthy landowners? AGD I don't know. But if he did it doesn't make what he said any less valid. I didn't agree with the demutualsation of the Building Societies and voted against it. But since I couldn't stop it I took advantage of it and got the carpetbagging windfall. If somebody was going to make money out of it that might as well be be. But I can still say it was wrong. I think smoking is wrong but have still made money from Tobacco company shares because if I didn't somebody else would. And if the tobacco companies didn't supply cigarettes criminals would like they supply drugs - which is worse than buying them from Tesco. So I can still hold shares in tobacco companies and advise people to stop smoking. This is what Lloyd George said in 1909 and I posted on another thread. Since you have referred to it on this thread I will repost it here; "What is the landlord's increment? Who is the landlord? The landlord is a gentleman - I have not a word to say about him in his personal capacity - the landlord is a gentleman who does not earn his wealth. He does not even take the trouble to receive his wealth. He has a host of agents and clerks to receive it for him. He does not even take the trouble to spend his wealth. He has a host of people around him to do the actual spending for him. He never sees it until he comes to enjoy it. His sole function, his chief pride, is stately consumption of wealth produced by others. What about the doctor's income? How does the doctor earn his income? The doctor is a man who visits our homes when they are darkened with the shadow of death: who, by his skill, his trained courage, his genius, wrings hope out of the grip of despair, wins life out of the fangs of the Great Destroyer. All blessings upon him and his divine art of healing that mends bruised bodies and anxious hearts. To compare the reward which he gets for that labour with the wealth which pours into the pockets of the landlord purely owing to the possession of his monopoly is a piece - if they will forgive me for saying so - of insolence which no intelligent man would tolerate. Now that is the halfpenny tax on unearned increment. This system is not business, it is blackmail Now I come to the reversion tax. What is the reversion tax? You have got a system in the country which is not tolerated in any other country of the world, except, I believe, Turkey; the system whereby landlords take advantage of the fact that they have got complete control over the land to let it for a term of years, spend money upon it in building, in developing it. You improve the building, and year by year the value passes into the pockets of the landlord, and at the end of sixty, seventy, eighty or ninety years the whole of it passes away to the pockets of a man who never spent a penny upon it. Look at all this leasehold system. This system - it is the system I am attacking, not individuals - is not business, it is blackmail. I have no doubt some of you have taken the trouble to peruse some of these leases, and they are really worth reading, and I will guarantee that if you circulate copies of some of these building and mining leases at Tariff Reform meetings, and if you can get workmen at those meetings and the business men to read them, they will come away sadder but much wiser men. What are they? Ground rent is a part of it - fines, fees; you are to make no alteration without somebody's consent. Who is that somebody? It is the agent of the landlord. A fee to him. You must submit the plans to the landlords architect and get his consent. There is a fee to him. There is a fee to the surveyor; and then, of course, you cannot keep the lawyer out - he always comes in. And a fee to him. Well, that is the system, and the landlords come to us in the House of Commons and they say: If you go on taxing reversions we will grant no more leases? Is not that horrible? No more leases! No more kindly landlords with all their retinue of good fairies - agents, surveyors, lawyers - ready always to receive ground rents, fees, premiums, fines, reversions - no more, never again! They will not do it. We cannot persuade them. They wont have it. The landlord has threatened us that if we proceed with the Budget he will take his sack clean away from the hopper, and the grain which we are all grinding our best to fill his sack will go into our own. Oh, I cannot believe it. There is a limit even to the wrath of outraged landlords. We must really appease them; we must offer up some sacrifice to them. Suppose we offer the House of Lords to them? Well, you seem rather to agree with that. I will make the suggestion to them. I say their day of reckoning is at hand." (Lloyd George's plans to impose a land tax were foiled by the landowners in the House of Lords. A hundred years later the wealth of the great landowners has become even more obscene. The policy of both New Labour and Tories has been to restrict housing supply to inflate prices for the landlords' benefit. They have left a string of loopholes to avoid inheritance tax and the Tories want to do away with it altogether - they would rather tax poor mans earned income than rich mans unearned income. Now we are seeing it extended further with even detached houses being sold leasehold without the hapless buyers realising what leasehold really means!!! Salesmen disguise it by calling it 'virtual freehold' People are led to believe they are buying the house and land but they are not!! It still belongs to someone else who will control it and charge more rent on it!! They are just paying a lot of of the rent up front!!! It's a gigantic conspiracy against the people of Britain and it's time to bring the whole edifice crashing down.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Dunno why this is your latest rant John?...........Besides its my understanding that leasehold properties are usually cheaper than freehold, so the purchaser can afford a property he normally wouldn't be able to ;-) .......... Plus when I last checked no one is forced to buy a leasehold property :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 John52 - I don't know. But if he did it doesn't make what he said any less valid. I didn't agree with the demutualsation of the Building Societies and voted against it. But since I couldn't stop it I took advantage of it and got the carpetbagging windfall. ... Sounds about right ... You vote Labour dont ya John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-07 11:58 AM Dunno why this is your latest rant John?...........Besides its my understanding that leasehold properties are usually cheaper than freehold, so the purchaser can afford a property he normally wouldn't be able to ;-) .......... Plus when I last checked no one is forced to buy a leasehold property :D ......... You don't 'purchase' a leasehold property because it still belongs to someone else. You just rent it. But what I find most remarkable is your Daily Mail Brigade still blames the loony left for everything like unfettered immigration, even when its their loony right in power (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-07 12:30 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-07 11:58 AM Dunno why this is your latest rant John?...........Besides its my understanding that leasehold properties are usually cheaper than freehold, so the purchaser can afford a property he normally wouldn't be able to ;-) .......... Plus when I last checked no one is forced to buy a leasehold property :D ......... You don't 'purchase' a leasehold property because it still belongs to someone else. You just rent it. But what I find most remarkable is your Daily Mail Brigade still blames the loony left for everything like unfettered immigration, even when its their loony right in power (lol) So would the loony left stop unfettered migration.......and don't forget it was Blair that opened the door >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-07 12:30 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-07 11:58 AM Dunno why this is your latest rant John?...........Besides its my understanding that leasehold properties are usually cheaper than freehold, so the purchaser can afford a property he normally wouldn't be able to ;-) .......... Plus when I last checked no one is forced to buy a leasehold property :D ......... You don't 'purchase' a leasehold property because it still belongs to someone else. You just rent it. But what I find most remarkable is your Daily Mail Brigade still blames the loony left for everything like unfettered immigration, even when its their loony right in power (lol) Not quite John. You purchase the lease which ideally will have 100 or 125 years on it. The less years, the lower the price. There are leasehold properties throughout UK with many variations. In my locality Sanctuary Housing own a number flats purpose built and suited for retirees. I think they have a min age set at 55 but the flats are modern, well built and certainly something i've considered selling up my property for (easier to manage). The purchase price is for 70% of the value with SH retaining 30%. Some people are a bit "sniffy" about renting/leasing etc and it's virtually an obsession with British to own a property rather than rent. My daughter-in-law works for Hamptons International in London and specialises in lettings. She explained to me that most of her clients are wealthy people who have already sold a property but not found one they want to buy.....so they rent a place whilst looking around. Another type of client she has on her books are large companies who throw in a fancy penthouse pad in Chelsea or wherever as part of their pay package for a MD or CEO....many of whom move here from a foreign country (Pelmet won't like that bit :D ). Some rent figures are mind boggling.....£20k per week is common! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-02-07 2:23 PM Some people are a bit "sniffy" about renting/leasing etc and it's virtually an obsession with British to own a property rather than rent. I'm guessing that most of the people who " push " renting are landlords who own their own homes. Given the choice of paying a mortgage for the next 30 or 40 years- and owning a house at the end of it seems to me to be a much better option than paying rent for the rest of your life - and owning nothing. .( ...... and you just have to hope you can afford the rent once you have retired ). :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-02-07 2:23 PM Not quite John. You purchase the lease which ideally will have 100 or 125 years on it. The less years, the lower the price. There are leasehold properties throughout UK with many variations. In my locality Sanctuary Housing own a number flats purpose built and suited for retirees. I think they have a min age set at 55 but the flats are modern, well built and certainly something i've considered selling up my property for (easier to manage). The purchase price is for 70% of the value with SH retaining 30%. Yes you purchase the lease not the house. All you are doing is paying rent up front. Ownership and control remains with the landlord. You may still be liable to pay more rent, and you still remain at the mercy of the landlord, some good, some bad. How do you know which yours will be? I see the fat cat bosses of some of these Housing Associations now drawing some very large salaries *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-02-07 2:23 PM many of whom move here from a foreign country (Pelmet won't like that bit :D ). Some rent figures are mind boggling.....£20k per week is common! 8-) Why wont I like it? :-S ..........If they're paying 20k a week for a flat then I doubt they'll be a drain on the UK coffers ;-) ..... Although that's not always a guarantee as I once did a job in a Penthouse flat in Belgravia, that later turned out was bought by Chetnian mafia, when the police found two dead bodies that had been in the bedroom, while I had spent all day fitting pelmets watched over by the killers 8-) ....... My Mrs says I can never pick up on an atmosphere :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 malc d - 2017-02-07 2:41 PM Bulletguy - 2017-02-07 2:23 PM Some people are a bit "sniffy" about renting/leasing etc and it's virtually an obsession with British to own a property rather than rent. I'm guessing that most of the people who " push " renting are landlords who own their own homes. Given the choice of paying a mortgage for the next 30 or 40 years- and owning a house at the end of it seems to me to be a much better option than paying rent for the rest of your life - and owning nothing. .( ...... and you just have to hope you can afford the rent once you have retired ). :-( Certainly with the UK market it is. My ex-wife is Swiss and renting there is considered normal. It's the complete opposite of UK with way more people renting than buying......but there is a vast difference between their rental properties and ours. Rents are low in comparison to incomes. The standard of interior fitments and decor is also top quality. John52 - 2017-02-07 4:01 PM Bulletguy - 2017-02-07 2:23 PM Not quite John. You purchase the lease which ideally will have 100 or 125 years on it. The less years, the lower the price. There are leasehold properties throughout UK with many variations. In my locality Sanctuary Housing own a number flats purpose built and suited for retirees. I think they have a min age set at 55 but the flats are modern, well built and certainly something i've considered selling up my property for (easier to manage). The purchase price is for 70% of the value with SH retaining 30%. Yes you purchase the lease not the house. All you are doing is paying rent up front. Ownership and control remains with the landlord. You may still be liable to pay more rent, and you still remain at the mercy of the landlord, some good, some bad. How do you know which yours will be? I see the fat cat bosses of some of these Housing Associations now drawing some very large salaries *-) Unfortunately John the "right to buy" which finished off social housing in UK brought in the Housing Associations. All are capitalist driven. It was a clever Thatcher ploy to tear socialism apart.....divide and conquer. All of a sudden you had tenants buying into the property market on the cheap, then selling on at fat profits. Previously staunch socialists got a taste of capitalist cream and were licking their lips for more. pelmetman - 2017-02-07 5:06 PM Bulletguy - 2017-02-07 2:23 PM many of whom move here from a foreign country (Pelmet won't like that bit :D ). Some rent figures are mind boggling.....£20k per week is common! 8-) Why wont I like it? :-S ..........If they're paying 20k a week for a flat then I doubt they'll be a drain on the UK coffers ;-) ..... Although that's not always a guarantee as I once did a job in a Penthouse flat in Belgravia, that later turned out was bought by Chetnian mafia, when the police found two dead bodies that had been in the bedroom, while I had spent all day fitting pelmets watched over by the killers 8-) ....... My Mrs says I can never pick up on an atmosphere :D ....... All immigrants. Them East Europeans have taken over Chelski and Belgravodad. Good job too......they keep my daughter-in-law in a job. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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