Idle Thoughts on Brexit

[StuartO]

A negotiated trade agreement is presumably aimed at allowing as much trade as possible both ways without unnecessary restrictions or tarifs getting in the way.  Except that the EU seems to feel that because it operates a very large economic area, and non-memeber countries are in more need of a deal than the EU is, it is entitled to bias things in its favour, for example by demanding payments in return for access to its big market.  And the EU wants to "punish" UK for leaving by making sure it's worse off for leaving too.  That's not a very neighbourly approach at all.

 

UK has the advantage of being an island on the open Atlantic side of the EU, so does not depend upon trading routes through any other country to reach non-EU markets, even places like Turkey, so we don't need overland trading routes into Europe if we do enough trade by sea.

 

I don't suppose it would be desireable for us to neglect overland trading routes into Europe but could we manage without them if necessary?

 

[RogerC]

Idle thoughts?....not really more an observation of our little corner of humanity.....

Scanning just this thread one comes to the conclusion that it is those on the 'remain' side of the issue that have a problem dealing with things as they are........the vote was for OUT!! 

However in the interests of fairness I have posted comments from both sides of the 'fence' although the ones in italics are from one source:

....and a lot of Remoaner b*tching

My feeling is that Gibraltar is a parasite Britain would be more prosperous without

Another inconvenient problem the Brexiteers have simply ignored.

...Is that Monsieur Peugeot and Citroen etc will want to sell their Frog cars to us Brits, so I would imagine any overt back stabbing would be reflected in the sales of their vehicles

Thanks to the lunacy of Brexit .....

I am a true patriot not like you whinging Remoaners....

Brexiteers are of course patriots when compared to you RemOAner sycophants 

I think we need a catchy name for the obsessive Leavers...

the ones who rant and crow and call other people names.....(that's rich coming from the Remain side!)

assert their right to have the Referendum result respected and carried out over as many dead bodies as necessary.......( I wasn't aware of anyone being killed over the result....by either side?)

a bunch of crowing fanatics snapping at everyone's heels.....

They clearly are fanatics and fanatics are uncomfortable and possibly dangerous.....

How about the "Leaverlunies"?

How's about winners?.....

....and instead of Remoaners..... we could call them losers 

Wishful thinking on you Remoaners oops I mean Losers part methinks.....

.......I will pish myself laughing when the first Brexiteers snow birds start getting fined and kicked out of Europe.

The Leave lot are currently riding a wave of euphoric glee and i'm watching them dig their grave.

Sadly they are hell bent on taking everyone else down with them over a pathetically uncomfortable narrow margin.....

As for a "catchy name".....there isn't one other than insanity. 

they certainly haven't woke up..........yet. Still in dream land. 

i'd like to see two passports on offer.....a Remain and a Leave. The Remain one being free for life and funded by Brexiters who will be charged £250 for a 3 month passport.

Words of wisdom Brexiters won't like preferring to shout down and bury their heads..... (my insertion here....the poster is referring to 'The Prince of Darkness....Mandelson (the scheming, manipulative, lying, despicable individual that is nearly as self obsessed as B'liar)). 

So over to you dear readers.....the selections were those that came readily to the eye as one scanned the thread......it appears to me that the more unpleasant comments, name calling and accusations are coming from the remain camp so does that tell us something about their outlook because I have yet to hear from the 'leave' side accusations that the remain voters, amongst a great many other comments on their understanding and sanity etc, didn't know what they were voting for etc etc....

Having read a reasonable amount, seen sufficient in the press....and watched that 'bastion' (haha) of political comment 'Question Time' coverage of the in/out issue it is clear that most of the doom and gloom, the accusations and name calling is coming from the remain camp.  Yes the exit camp is guilty of the same on occasions but it is clear, at least to me, that it is the remain side that is displaying the rather unpleasant traits of the 'school bully' who has lost his grip.

[StuartO]

As I understood it once an Article 50 declaration has been made leaving the EU is irreversible unless all remaining countries agreed to a reuest to change UK's mind and stay.  But this bloke Kerr, who actually wrote Article 50, says it is not irreversible, in which case maybe it does make sense for the UK to pause for thought and make a final decision in a couple of years or so, after negotiation has taken place and we know more about what the EU will and will not go along with.

 

Unless you are one of these Leaver obsessionals who is determined to force Brexit through regardless because "they won the vote" I can't see why anyone would object to taking a second look at the pros and cons at that stage.  Maybe we would end up being face with another two sets of fanciful bulls**t instead of accurate information and intelligent arguement but at least there would be a possibility that the campaigners will have learned that lesson.

 

EU politicians like Junkers, who can be described as having a big personal stake in preserving the EU's grip on things, seem to want Article 50 to be irreversible, as if that would help to bully countries into never wanting to take the risk of Article 50 irreversibility risk.

 

In January last year, when our PM David Cameron was trying to get the EU to see the need to reform in order to avoid losing Members, especially the UK, Junkers was clearly aiming to keep the UK both in the fold and under the EU's thumb.  Maybe people like Junkers need to be faced with an Article 50 declaration before they will get serious about listening to other people's ideas?

 

[RogerC]

Interesting comments there regarding 'Junker' : 

EU politicians like Junkers, who can be described as having a big personal stake in preserving the EU's grip on things,

Junkers was clearly aiming to keep the UK both in the fold and under the EU's thumb

.....IMO quite correct assertions and merely goes to support those 'Leaver obsessionals' (more name calling??) wanting to extricate the UK from the EU... a dominating, interfering....even as you say 'bullying' organisation that is increasingly self serving in terms of the politicians gravy train and the 'power' which they appear most definitely not to want to relinquish.

[Bulletguy]

 

Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU

 

Cabinet minister says it will take 'years and years' for Britons to fill jobs done by EU workers

 

The Brexit Secretary said it could take “years and years” for Britain to fill all the jobs that would otherwise have been done by EU immigrants coming to the UK to work.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-migrants-brexit-workers-eu-uk-stay-open-immigration-years-latest-a7592616.html

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 3:28 PM

 

 

Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU

 

Cabinet minister says it will take 'years and years' for Britons to fill jobs done by EU workers

 

The Brexit Secretary said it could take “years and years” for Britain to fill all the jobs that would otherwise have been done by EU immigrants coming to the UK to work.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-migrants-brexit-workers-eu-uk-stay-open-immigration-years-latest-a7592616.html

 

Well at least two :D ........

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 5:37 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 3:28 PM

 

 

Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU

 

Cabinet minister says it will take 'years and years' for Britons to fill jobs done by EU workers

 

The Brexit Secretary said it could take “years and years” for Britain to fill all the jobs that would otherwise have been done by EU immigrants coming to the UK to work.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-migrants-brexit-workers-eu-uk-stay-open-immigration-years-latest-a7592616.html

 

Well at least two :D ........

 

 

Two what.....years? You're in cloud cuckoo and still in denial......even after your own Brexit Secretary has finally smelled the coffee! (lol)

 

Speaking on a visit to Estonia, Mr Davis said: “In the hospitality sector, hotels and restaurants, in the social-care sector, working in agriculture, it will take time. It will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs."

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 6:21 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 5:37 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 3:28 PM

 

 

Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU

 

Cabinet minister says it will take 'years and years' for Britons to fill jobs done by EU workers

 

The Brexit Secretary said it could take “years and years” for Britain to fill all the jobs that would otherwise have been done by EU immigrants coming to the UK to work.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-migrants-brexit-workers-eu-uk-stay-open-immigration-years-latest-a7592616.html

 

Well at least two :D ........

 

 

Two what.....years? You're in cloud cuckoo and still in denial......even after your own Brexit Secretary has finally smelled the coffee! (lol)

 

Speaking on a visit to Estonia, Mr Davis said: “In the hospitality sector, hotels and restaurants, in the social-care sector, working in agriculture, it will take time. It will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs."

 

I said "At Least" if it takes a few more, that's neither here nor there ;-) ........So long as we leave the EU then eventually we'll have control of our borders B-) ..........

 

Which will never happen if we remain *-) ........

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 6:28 PM

 

I said "At Least" if it takes a few more, that's neither here nor there...

 

You seem to be grasping in desperate hope making up your own media and misinterpreting what Davies said.

 

 

So long as we leave the EU then eventually we'll have control of our borders B-) ..........

 

Which UK has always had......but you've put an end to your "snow birding" days. In future the same measures you want applied will be applied to you too.

[nowtelse2do]

If we were to stay in the EU, what region would we be known as. Romania and Bulgaria are known as no 2 region when being discussed in Brussels. Hope it's 8, that's my lucky number....Lol

 

Dave

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 6:50 PM

 

Which UK has always had.......

 

(lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ..........

 

That's a bit like saying the Greeks have control of their monetary policy :D .......

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2017-02-23 1:25 PMAs I understood it once an Article 50 declaration has been made leaving the EU is irreversible unless all remaining countries agreed to a reuest to change UK's mind and stay.  But this bloke Kerr, who actually wrote Article 50, says it is not irreversible, in which case maybe it does make sense for the UK to pause for thought and make a final decision in a couple of years or so, after negotiation has taken place and we know more about what the EU will and will not go along with.

 

Unless you are one of these Leaver obsessionals who is determined to force Brexit through regardless because "they won the vote" I can't see why anyone would object to taking a second look at the pros and cons at that stage.  Maybe we would end up being face with another two sets of fanciful bulls**t instead of accurate information and intelligent arguement but at least there would be a possibility that the campaigners will have learned that lesson.

 

EU politicians like Junkers, who can be described as having a big personal stake in preserving the EU's grip on things, seem to want Article 50 to be irreversible, as if that would help to bully countries into never wanting to take the risk of Article 50 irreversibility risk.

 

In January last year, when our PM David Cameron was trying to get the EU to see the need to reform in order to avoid losing Members, especially the UK, Junkers was clearly aiming to keep the UK both in the fold and under the EU's thumb.  Maybe people like Junkers need to be faced with an Article 50 declaration before they will get serious about listening to other people's ideas?

Stuart, I agree. I am, however, a bit dubious about Kerr's reasoning. As author, I assume he had opportunity to provide for a change of mind, but did not. So, what we are now told is what he now thinks (wishes?) Article 50 implies. This is little different to the position of UK legislation. It is enacted to produce a particular result, usually a change in behaviour at some level, and almost invariably includes penalties for failing to comply. So, we (and the government) know its intent. But, the penalties will be applied by the courts, which gives rise to the oft stated comment that "only then shall we find out what the legislation really means". So with Article 50, I think. Though I'm reasonable confident that the question of whether a change of mind can be accepted under the treaty will go to the ECJ. As you say, it is reasonable and logical (and also highly democratic) to have a pause on the helter-skelter to the exit once the actual terms are known, at which point the implications for the UK economy and much more can be illustrated and debated, and an informed (reasonably! :-)) decision reached.Unfortunately, Junker is a crude and clumsy politician, who seems not to understand that people's reaction to threats, implied or express, is to kick back.

[RogerC]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 5:37 PM

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 3:28 PMBrexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EUCabinet minister says it will take 'years and years' for Britons to fill jobs done by EU workersThe Brexit Secretary said it could take “years and years” for Britain to fill all the jobs that would otherwise have been done by EU immigrants coming to the UK to work.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-migrants-brexit-workers-eu-uk-stay-open-immigration-years-latest-a7592616.html

Well at least two :D ........

Two what.....years? You're in cloud cuckoo and still in denial......even after your own Brexit Secretary has finally smelled the coffee! (lol) Speaking on a visit to Estonia, Mr Davis said: “In the hospitality sector, hotels and restaurants, in the social-care sector, working in agriculture, it will take time. It will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs."

I find it strange that there are those who consider the UK can not exist without cheap, driving the service sector wages down, Eastern Europeans.  Before the 'open borders' policy we had a working service sector and I see no reason why it should not be so in future.  Instead of the multinationals and those whose interests are 'solely' in the 'bottom line' maybe it will encourage....nay force them...to pay a proper wage.  Likewise it might? encourage those in positions of responsibility to the general populace (government agencies/civil service??) to ensure that benefit scroungers get off their lazy backsides and get themselves into proper employment instead of sponging off those of us who pay taxes.  

In addition if those 'in power' made sufficient efforts to curtail those companies advertising in the less affluent areas of Europe in order to fill job vacancies before even offering them to the UK market force it might make a difference.  If the IoM can have an element of protectionist employment rights, without the liberalist...love everybody outcry, I see no reason why the UK can not do the same.

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 7:15 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 6:50 PM

 

Which UK has always had.......

 

(lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ..........

 

That's a bit like saying the Greeks have control of their monetary policy :D .......

 

 

Where did you exit UK when you scurried off out to Spain?

 

Where will you re-enter when you reluctantly return back here?

 

Let me know when you've figured it out.

 

 

RogerC - 2017-02-23 8:27 PM

I find it strange that there are those who consider the UK can not exist without cheap, driving the service sector wages down, Eastern Europeans.  Before the 'open borders' policy we had a working service sector and I see no reason why it should not be so in future.

 

I don't know why you do Roger. Neither do i know why you specifically single out East Europeans other than it being a trendy political agenda whipped up by right wing media, when it's a proven and established fact that non-EU citizens account for more migration to UK than EU.

 

UK has long relied on migratory workers, many from Asia, India and Pakistan who've been coming here for years, long before we ever became an EU country.

 

The remark Davies made people should think in particular about was this, ".....before we get British citizens to do those jobs."

 

Now i don't know about you but to me that suggests the difficulties Britain experiences in getting people to go to work and he'd be right on that. The other day i watched a documentary about folk on the dole and some of the excuses and dodges they used to avoid going to work infuriated me. One youth told the job centre people he could only consider theatrical work as he was going to be an actor. He was doing plenty of "acting" alright.........acting at playing a bone idle sod so he could stay on benefits.

[RogerC]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 9:29 PM

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 7:15 PM

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 6:50 PMWhich UK has always had.......

(lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ..........That's a bit like saying the Greeks have control of their monetary policy :D .......

Where did you exit UK when you scurried off out to Spain? Where will you re-enter when you reluctantly return back here?Let me know when you've figured it out.

RogerC - 2017-02-23 8:27 PMI find it strange that there are those who consider the UK can not exist without cheap, driving the service sector wages down, Eastern Europeans.  Before the 'open borders' policy we had a working service sector and I see no reason why it should not be so in future.

I don't know why you do Roger. Neither do i know why you specifically single out East Europeans other than it being a trendy political agenda whipped up by right wing media, when it's a proven and established fact that non-EU citizens account for more migration to UK than EU.UK has long relied on migratory workers, many from Asia, India and Pakistan who've been coming here for years, long before we ever became an EU country.The remark Davies made people should think in particular about was this, ".....before we get British citizens to do those jobs." Now i don't know about you but to me that suggests the difficulties Britain experiences in getting people to go to work and he'd be right on that. The other day i watched a documentary about folk on the dole and some of the excuses and dodges they used to avoid going to work infuriated me. One youth told the job centre people he could only consider theatrical work as he was going to be an actor. He was doing plenty of "acting" alright.........acting at playing a bone idle sod so he could stay on benefits.

Yet another 'twisting 'of the comment and it's intent.  I never said anything about the numbers of immigrants coming from wherever.  My comment was intended to illustrate that most all of the jobs/workers one encounters in the service and unskilled portions of industry.....hotel support staff, coffee shop staff, labourers etc and others such farmland gang labourers are mostly of Eastern European origin.  Basically it is those from typically less affluent countries coming here for the relatively higher wages than they can get at home.  Poland for example suffered greatly at home in the early days of open borders but now is recovering at home now that wages there have become more acceptable there. Admittedly there are those with 'skills' in technology etc coming as well which is an area where we do not have sufficient home grown expertise ergo filling jobs we can not fill internally.

I said nothing about immigration from Asia and the sub continent because 'they' are subject to strict qualification criteria whereas those from the EU are free to come and go as they please so please don't inject disagreement or twist the intent to where none was intended.

David Davies might well have made the comments he did as an indicator of the difficulties in getting the feckless scrounging element of our native population and I agree with him.  However is it not better to get those feckless off their backsides through 'tough if necessary' means than allow them to continue at the expense of foreign, read 'uncontrolled' EU labour? 

Reading both sets of comments and setting aside the 'expansion' into unexpressed territory we appear to agree on the core of the issue.....feckless individuals being allowed to live a life at state expense, some bringing in considerably more than those earning an honest crust, whilst cheap uncontrolled foreign (EU) labour does the work they should be doing. 

[Bulletguy]

 

Roger.....just one example of service sector i came across recently when on a trip up to Peterhead in Scotland........fishing. Peterhead is the UK's largest trawler fleet and that's what i'd gone to see. I got chatting with a skipper off one which had just docked after 3 weeks out and unloading their catch. Apart from one lad the rest of his crew were Latvian and Lithuanian. And he told me that was common among most of the fleet now. He'd tried local lads.....but they won't graft and chuck it in after a first trial. Yes the work is damned hard and certainly very dangerous. The pay is also uncertain and varies according to the catch BUT when they get a good catch, they all come away with a big fat wedge.

 

The lads he employed....all spoke good English, had previous experience and one had gained his skippers licence whilst working on his trawler. So, "catch dependent," his trade can pay very good money.....but needs people willing to go to work and if British won't do it, what else are people like that trawler skipper supposed to do? It's not as though they are chasing after 'cheap labour' as even the skipper has no idea how much they are going to earn when they set sail though it is part of his job to find good fishing grounds.

 

Apart from the obvious willingness to work for a living, the other reason they can is their ability to speak English. That's fairly common among younger EU/non-EU nationals. Of course migration works both ways and i've met a few British who've done exactly that to live and work in a foreign country. Learning the language is their biggest hurdle but those i met had become fluent. Interestingly each had the same in common when i asked if they ever return back to UK. Not one had. I remember one guy i met in Germany who'd arrived there not speaking one word of German. Through working with other Germans he gradually picked up the language with their help, became fluent, married a German girl, has children, and has no intention of ever setting foot back in UK. As he said to me, "why would i...i have all i want here and my standard of living is much better than i'd ever have in UK".

 

Bottom line is, freedom of movement will always continue no matter what and imo essential.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-24 1:23 AM

 

Bottom line is, freedom of movement will always continue no matter what and imo essential.

 

IMO unless Saint Theresa gets back control of our borders, then the UKIP bogey man will reappear :D .......

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 9:29 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-02-23 7:15 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 6:50 PM

 

Which UK has always had.......

 

(lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ..........

 

That's a bit like saying the Greeks have control of their monetary policy :D .......

 

 

Where did you exit UK when you scurried off out to Spain?

 

Where will you re-enter when you reluctantly return back here?

 

Let me know when you've figured it out.

 

 

.......and your point is? :-S ........are they allowed to stop folk from coming here to take up our low skilled jobs such as Big Issue sellers? ;-) .........

 

Why are you so happy for the feckless in this country to get away with sponging of the taxpayer? :-| ......

 

 

[Barryd999]

StuartO - 2017-02-23 1:25 PMAs I understood it once an Article 50 declaration has been made leaving the EU is irreversible unless all remaining countries agreed to a reuest to change UK's mind and stay.  But this bloke Kerr, who actually wrote Article 50, says it is not irreversible, in which case maybe it does make sense for the UK to pause for thought and make a final decision in a couple of years or so, after negotiation has taken place and we know more about what the EU will and will not go along with.

 

Unless you are one of these Leaver obsessionals who is determined to force Brexit through regardless because "they won the vote" I can't see why anyone would object to taking a second look at the pros and cons at that stage.  Maybe we would end up being face with another two sets of fanciful bulls**t instead of accurate information and intelligent arguement but at least there would be a possibility that the campaigners will have learned that lesson.

 

EU politicians like Junkers, who can be described as having a big personal stake in preserving the EU's grip on things, seem to want Article 50 to be irreversible, as if that would help to bully countries into never wanting to take the risk of Article 50 irreversibility risk.

 

In January last year, when our PM David Cameron was trying to get the EU to see the need to reform in order to avoid losing Members, especially the UK, Junkers was clearly aiming to keep the UK both in the fold and under the EU's thumb.  Maybe people like Junkers need to be faced with an Article 50 declaration before they will get serious about listening to other people's ideas?

Of course it makes sense for the UK to pause for thought and make a final decision based on the deal offered. This is actually what Tim Farron was saying when he said ""A referendum on the deal is the only way to conclude this process. The only democratic way to conclude it., its the only way to closure".I dunno what Dave is on about in his link earlier. I think Farron still wants the public to decide he just doenst want the EU telling them they have to decide. That makes a lot of sense. The deal on offer may well be completely against what people thought they were voting for, it may be clearly disastrous for the UK. The only democratic way is to let the people decide or at least their representatives, parliament. Brexiteers say the remoaners are being undemocratic trying to block Brexit but surely if they attempt to force through something three years down the line without giving parliament or the public a chance to review it is indeed undemocratic.Why would anyone object to that anyway? The Brexiteers are clearly so confident that everyone still wants to leave so put your money where your mouth is, what have you got to lose?

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2017-02-24 12:30 PM

StuartO - 2017-02-23 1:25 PMAs I understood it once an Article 50 declaration has been made leaving the EU is irreversible unless all remaining countries agreed to a reuest to change UK's mind and stay.  But this bloke Kerr, who actually wrote Article 50, says it is not irreversible, in which case maybe it does make sense for the UK to pause for thought and make a final decision in a couple of years or so, after negotiation has taken place and we know more about what the EU will and will not go along with.

 

Unless you are one of these Leaver obsessionals who is determined to force Brexit through regardless because "they won the vote" I can't see why anyone would object to taking a second look at the pros and cons at that stage.  Maybe we would end up being face with another two sets of fanciful bulls**t instead of accurate information and intelligent arguement but at least there would be a possibility that the campaigners will have learned that lesson.

 

EU politicians like Junkers, who can be described as having a big personal stake in preserving the EU's grip on things, seem to want Article 50 to be irreversible, as if that would help to bully countries into never wanting to take the risk of Article 50 irreversibility risk.

 

In January last year, when our PM David Cameron was trying to get the EU to see the need to reform in order to avoid losing Members, especially the UK, Junkers was clearly aiming to keep the UK both in the fold and under the EU's thumb.  Maybe people like Junkers need to be faced with an Article 50 declaration before they will get serious about listening to other people's ideas?

Of course it makes sense for the UK to pause for thought and make a final decision based on the deal offered. This is actually what Tim Farron was saying when he said ""A referendum on the deal is the only way to conclude this process. The only democratic way to conclude it., its the only way to closure".I dunno what Dave is on about in his link earlier. I think Farron still wants the public to decide he just doenst want the EU telling them they have to decide. That makes a lot of sense. The deal on offer may well be completely against what people thought they were voting for, it may be clearly disastrous for the UK. The only democratic way is to let the people decide or at least their representatives, parliament. Brexiteers say the remoaners are being undemocratic trying to block Brexit but surely if they attempt to force through something three years down the line without giving parliament or the public a chance to review it is indeed undemocratic.Why would anyone object to that anyway? The Brexiteers are clearly so confident that everyone still wants to leave so put your money where your mouth is, what have you got to lose?

But surely when the majority voted to leave they trusted that government would get the best deal possible for the UK didn't they ??? ... That surely went without saying ... When I voted at the last General Election I did so trusting that those I voted for would act on what's best for the UK and I wouldn't need to have another vote on every decision they take that might affect me ... I think your on a loser with the referendum final agreement crack ... The main voice for it is Farron ... Yes Farron whose about as relevant in British politics as Lily Allen ... You lost , your leaving and it's probably guna be a tough goodbye but you've got time to get used to it

[Guest pelmetman]

Saint Theresa was right when she said no deal is better than a bad deal B-) ........

 

WTO rules will be fine by me ;-) .......and will be of more benefit to UK PLC than EU PLC >:-) ........

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2017-02-24 9:05 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-02-24 1:23 AM

 

Bottom line is, freedom of movement will always continue no matter what and imo essential.

 

IMO unless Saint Theresa gets back control of our borders, then the UKIP bogey man will reappear :D .......

 

IF we ever "lost control" of our own borders then we'd only have ourselves to blame as we've always had borders and been responsible for them. This "get back control of borders" is just Kipper rhetoric which died long ago. You need a new line Dave.

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-02-24 9:12 AM

 

.......and your point is?

 

Why do you always respond back with a question when stuck? Why not just say it...."yes i passed through border control when i left UK and will pass through it again on return"?

 

 

.......are they allowed to stop folk from coming here to take up our low skilled jobs such as Big Issue sellers?

 

Freedom of movement will always be........get used to it.

 

Why are you so happy for the feckless in this country to get away with sponging of the taxpayer?

 

I'm not......I want the bone idle sods given a good kick up the backside and made to go back to work.

 

Just as i've quoted many examples before......another forum with people like yourself trying to blame "johnny foreigner" for "stealing" british jobs, where one poster interjected by explaining, "they've been doing a cracking job of 'stealing' my nephews job from him because the bone idle sod has never done a days work in his life since leaving school 20 years ago...".

 

What do you tell the Trawler skipper i was talking to a couple of years ago in Peterhead whose crew is Latvian and Lithuanian......because no local lads will graft and stay the course? Many of the fleet are manned by EU/non-EU crew for that reason. Money has no bearing on it as what Trawlermen earn depends on the catch and can range from a few hundred quid if a poor catch to a few grand for a good catch, but even the Skipper doesn't know what they will all get when they set sail. What he does know is he needs 100% reliable grafters who will turn up and work together as a team when out at sea. Trawler work is not for wimps and glass backs.

[Bulletguy]

Barryd999 - 2017-02-24 12:30 PM

 

Brexiteers say the remoaners are being undemocratic trying to block Brexit but surely if they attempt to force through something three years down the line without giving parliament or the public a chance to review it is indeed undemocratic.

 

Why would anyone object to that anyway? The Brexiteers are clearly so confident that everyone still wants to leave so put your money where your mouth is, what have you got to lose?

 

Brexiters are FAR from confident. The tiny miniscule marginal percent of 3.7% between the two should be enough to tell anyone that. But if they were genuinely confident.........they'd have no issue or fears at all in running a second referendum would they? ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-24 2:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-02-24 9:05 AM

Why are you so happy for the feckless in this country to get away with sponging of the taxpayer?

 

I'm not......I want the bone idle sods given a good kick up the backside and made to go back to work.

 

 

So why give them an excuse by allowing cheap labour to take their jobs? ;-) .........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-02-24 3:06 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-02-24 12:30 PM

 

Brexiteers say the remoaners are being undemocratic trying to block Brexit but surely if they attempt to force through something three years down the line without giving parliament or the public a chance to review it is indeed undemocratic.

 

Why would anyone object to that anyway? The Brexiteers are clearly so confident that everyone still wants to leave so put your money where your mouth is, what have you got to lose?

 

Brexiters are FAR from confident. The tiny miniscule marginal percent of 3.7% between the two should be enough to tell anyone that. But if they were genuinely confident.........they'd have no issue or fears at all in running a second referendum would they? ;-)

 

Oh dear not a sequel 8-) ............ "RemOAner Scaremongering 2 (The bitching never ends)" (lol) (lol) (lol) .......