X290 Citroen Relay radio auto turn-off

[brom]

Just got our new FIFER on Citroen Relay - very nice indeed. Only snag found so far - just as on earlier Sevels, the radio still insists on turning off after 20 minutes when the engine is off and the manual gives no hint of how to extend that. I had in mind that the x290 allows the period of radio use to be extended to 3 hours - but is that just the Ducato?

 

Any suggestions on how I can extend the playing time?

[philbee]

on my fiat carado use the menu with four buttons around it.By scrolling thro the radio timert can be altered.Radio inside is rubbish-but sit outside and next doors sounds ok. *-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Brom

 

These 2015 threads suggest that the power-off delay for the basic standard radio fitted to Ducato X290s is either 20 minuts or immediate:

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-X290-radio-cut-off/37147/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-x290-radio-20min-cut-off-update/37663/

 

Conversely, the instuctions here

 

http://www.motorhomevoyager.co.uk/motorhome-accessories/fiat-ducato-radio-camper-mode/

 

say that a ‘camper mode’ 180-minute delay can be chosen.

 

Presumably what’s possible (or not possible) for a Ducato radio will hold true for a Relay.

[brom]

Thanks Derek - I thought/hoped you might know!

 

The Fiat dashboard/radio LOOKS the same as the Citroen, so when Doris has taken her wind and snow elsewhere, I'll venture out and see if I can follow the instructions to a successful conclusion.

 

Will report back.

 

Brom

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s no doubt that the radio shown in the 3rd link of my last posting is the “UCONNECT RADIO 3.0” unit, but on-line comments seem to suggest that, when this unit is fitted to Ducato panel-vans, the power-off delay maximum duration is 20 minutes, with the 180 minutes duration option only being available on Ducato ‘camper’ chassis (ie. chassis destined to become coachbuilt motorhomes).

 

Other related discussions here:

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/murviloverschat/OcS_ls3xS0U/discussion

 

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/149-fiat-ducato/125554-new-ducato-radio.html

 

 

[brom]

Have just checked, and the simple solution of pressing two buttons simultaneously, to access the 'Camper' mode and change to 180 minutes before switch-off, isn't available on my radio - these buttons don't seem to exist.

 

I think I will have to consult an auto-electrician, to see if the radio can be re-wired direct to the leisure battery. The other alternative, of changing the radio altogether, is unattractive, because the fitted radio is really good, with clear buttons and screen, DAB, MP3 and a CD player, plus four speakers. So, it has everything we want, apart from the irritation of getting up and reaching into the cab to switch the radio on again, three times per hour!

 

Oh yes, when the radio switches off, and you re-start it, it has an annoying habit of coming up with 'Code Error' on the screen, and staying off. Looking at the threads, this seems to be a common experience.

 

Darren, from ENC, advised it isn't necessary to switch the ignition on and off again to solve this - just open, and shut ,the driver's door - this does work! Why, goodness knows.

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s a longish 2014 discussion here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/X250-Peugeot-Boxer-2013-model-radio-problem/34982/

 

about the radio ‘Code Error’ message on X250s and opening and shutting a door. The final posting (on Page 3 of the thread) includes an explanation from Peugeot. (I can’t say I’m convinced that this phenomenon can legitimately be called “normal” behaviour - “bloody-minded” would be more appropriate.)

 

 

[artheytrate]

To save opening and shutting doors to remove code error, switch hazard lights on and off.or use the door lock switch on the dash as I found turning anything on off removed the code error.

 

John.

[spospe]

artheytrate - 2017-02-23 3:30 PM

 

To save opening and shutting doors to remove code error, switch hazard lights on and off.or use the door lock switch on the dash as I found turning anything on off removed the code error.

 

John.

 

I have found that on my X250, locking / unlocking the cab doors does not clear the "Code error" message. What does clear it is, opening or closing a cab door, operating the hazards briefly, tuning the vehicle lights on and off, or turning the ignition on and off.

 

 

[LadyFarrow]

Hi

Please take a look at my new Facebook page for Carado owners: https://www.facebook.com/groups/260867971020429/

[brom]

Update on the question of finding 'Camper Mode' on the latest DAB radio fitted to Sevel vans. The model is the 'Fiat 250 VP2 ECE DAB'.

 

I had a great deal of faffing around with Citroen Customer (Dis)Service Department, who insisted their Protocols must be respected and followed to the letter - otherwise, they couldn't and wouldn't assist at all. The protocol would involve taking my van on a near-100 mile round trip, wasting two hours, and paying to have a diagnosis - which would simply have told me that 'They all do that, Sir'. Ridiculous!!

 

However, I eventually managed to get someone to speak on my behalf to Technical Support (who aren't allowed anywhere near Joe Public), and they returned to say there is no way to change from Eco Mode - Camper Mode is no longer available.

 

They didn't offer any explanation, but I'd guess it may be because DAB radios use much more juice than an FM radio, and Nanny PSA had decided we must be protected from ourselves (not realising, of course, that most of us use our radios when on site, and on mains hook-up!)

 

Whenever the idea of re-wiring the radio was raised, with anyone experienced in such things, there was a collective sucking of teeth and shaking of heads - the modern can-bus clearly has a mind of its own and must be respected!

 

So, unless anyone has any bright ideas, that seems to be the end of the story - for listening on site, you need to carry, or fit, a second radio, or you must jump up every 20 minutes to switch the hazards on, re-boot the on-board computer, and turn the radio on again!

[brom]

Yet further thoughts - I checked at ES Hartleys (Kendal), who have new Hobby and Wildax motorhomes (amongst others) on their forecourt. The Wildax vans have the standard-fit Fiat 250 VP2 DAB radios with rear camera etc. - they are subject to the 20 minute cut-off. The Hobby Vantanas, however, have after-fit Blaupunkt radios (which also have DAB and rear camera connections). They are operated from either the steering wheel, or the central control panel in the habitation area, and on those, there is no restriction on listening time.

 

So, the moral seems to be, if you want to listen for longer than 20 minutes, specify your new Euro6 spec Sevel motorhome radio-ready, but have your own after-market radio fitted by the supplying dealer.

 

But - another query for someone who knows - the 20 minutes only starts when you switch the ignition off - so why not keep the ignition on when listening to the radio? I know - it goes against everything one was taught, eons ago. But what is the rationale? Does it burn out the coil? I know it will drain the main battery - but I'm attached to the mains hook-up, so that doesn't apply.

 

I'd be fascinated to be hear why this is taboo!

[JTII]

This is what happens on my 2011 Peugeot 2.2 Boxer Elddis Autoquest.

Turn the radio on, use menu to scroll to ign tim and you're presented with 30 or 180 mins. Select the latter and the job's a good 'un.

 

Jeremy

[brom]

Not available on the 2017 - that's called 'Progress'!

[Derek Uzzell]

brom

 

When you turn your Fifer’s ignition-switch on, do the habitation 12V services still work? As you’ll be aware UK-built motorhomes normally have an ‘anti-EMC’ isolation-relay in their electrical system to kill habitation 12V services when the vehicle is being driven, but I think the motor needs to be running to cause that to happen, not just having the ignition-switch on.

 

And what about cold-start heaters and the daytime running-lights illuminating automatically when the ignition-switch is turned on?

 

(Your suggestion is probably harmless, just horribly offensive to purists.) ;-)

[Will86]

Oh the joys of modern life !!

[JTII]

brom - 2017-03-31 10:41 PM

 

Not available on the 2017 - that's called 'Progress'!

 

Yes, take something straightforward and make it unnecessarily complicated and completely unintuitive. Bit like Gas and Electric bills.

8o|

[brom]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-04-01 9:42 AM

 

brom

 

When you turn your Fifer’s ignition-switch on, do the habitation 12V services still work? As you’ll be aware UK-built motorhomes normally have an ‘anti-EMC’ isolation-relay in their electrical system to kill habitation 12V services when the vehicle is being driven, but I think the motor needs to be running to cause that to happen, not just having the ignition-switch on.

 

And what about cold-start heaters and the daytime running-lights illuminating automatically when the ignition-switch is turned on?

 

(Your suggestion is probably harmless, just horribly offensive to purists.) ;-)

 

 

Have checked, and the 12v is usable with the ignition switched on - and of course, the DRLs are illuminated, too.

 

So it would be feasible to use the radio in this way indefinitely, if the van is on hook-up, though it goes against all my instincts, and everything drummed into me when I learnt to drive, 48 years ago!

[JTII]

Me too, leaving the ignition on was a big no-no, frying the coil (as you mentioned but only for petrol engines) and flattening the battery were just two evils.

I suspect there will be something which won't like the ignition being left on for hours but don't know enough to say what that might be.

What about a call to a local auto electrician to see what they can suggest?

[Derek Uzzell]

JTII - 2017-04-01 12:09 PM

 

brom - 2017-03-31 10:41 PM

 

Not available on the 2017 - that's called 'Progress'!

 

Yes, take something straightforward and make it unnecessarily complicated and completely unintuitive. Bit like Gas and Electric bills.

8o|

 

It’s perhaps worth emphasising that the shut-off delay of zero or 20 minutes is a feature of UConnect radios fitted not just to 2017 Boxer/Ducato/Relay vehicles, but to all X290 models (manufactured from mid-2014-onwards).

 

The following 2015 MHFacts link (also provided above)

 

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/149-fiat-ducato/125554-new-ducato-radio.html

 

discusses possible work-arounds involving playing about with the radio’s wiring. As there was no follow-up to that forum thread, and there’s nothing on-line to confirm that a simple rewiring procedure can overcome the radio’s automatic shut-off feature, it’s tempting to think that replacing the radio would be the most satisfactory approach.

 

Even when a motorhome manufacturer installs a different make of radio, things may not always be plain sailing. My Rapido motorhome has a factory-installed Pioneer unit that has no integrated On/Off switch as it’s intended to be fitted only to vehicles that have an “AUX” position on their ignition-switch (which X290 models don’t have). To get around this Rapido fits a separate switch to turn the radio on and off, but as there’s no automatic shut-off it’s not too difficult to accidentally leave the unit on indefinitely.

 

Pilote has fitted the same Pioneer head-unit but, rather than have a separate On/Off switch, chose to turn the radio on and off via the motorhome’s 12V control-panel. However, switching the radio off via the control-panel also prevents the motorhome’s 12V sockets and hob gas-igniters from working.

[dougal]

My X250 Peugeot was easy to alter - I just removed the van supply that was switched (I presume by the CANBUS) and looped the permanent 12v supply to the radio supply. The permanent supply keeps the radio presets for you). Would this not work on a X290?

 

While adding various extras I ended up putting a new 12v supply off the battery to run everything - GPS, Reversing cam, 12v sockets. Ensure you put an appropriate fuse by the battery with a heavy lead to the fuse. then much smaller fuses to each extra. Lots of room above and behind the radio to hide the wiring. Boxer The radio is difficult to get out as the bottom of the unit has two sprung clips that require some force to get them undone. I used two blunt kitchen knives to lever the bottom out! (ensure you have the radio code if you unplug radio) I am naughty as I write the code on the radio! I put a centre off rocker switch by the ash tray to select GPS/Reversing cam - or whatever you want.

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-04-02 8:39 AM

 

...........it’s tempting to think that replacing the radio would be the most satisfactory approach.

 

 

It is tempting, but it is widely reported, even on here, that due to the Canbus connections of the factory fitted radio (and associated bluetooth module), replacement with an aftermarket unit is not the simplest of tasks.

 

It is prone to the throwing-up Canbus errors, which may or may not be resolved by additional aftermarket conversion wiring/electronics, or may require a dealer to carry out a (chargeable) proxi alignment to remove the factory radio from the Canbus parameters.

 

As has been noted up-thread, the best answer (sadly not applicable in this case) is to ensure the vehicle left the factory with 'radio prep' only, allowing the fitting a an appropriate aftermarket unit with no Canbus issues.

[Derek Uzzell]

As Pilote turns off the Pioneer head-unit via the motorhome’s control-panel, it’s reasonable to assume that the unit itself is powered from the vehicle’s leisure-battery. I’ve yet to come to terms with how Rapido has wired the Pioneer unit in my motorhome. I’m fairly sure its power comes from the leisure-battery, but there’s clearly a link into the Ducato electrical system somewhere as, if I switch the radio on with the vehicle’s ignition off, and then start the vehicle’s engine, this momentarily (and infuriatingly) switches off the radio unit.

 

As you warn, it may well be the case that just dumping the UConnect unit and using the existing wiring to connect up a different radio-unit may cause problems, or that problems might even result from removing the UConnect unit and installing completely separate, leisure-battery-powered, wiring for a different radio.

[Alanb]

Prior to 2015 we hired and toured extensively in New Zealand. The Ford Transit is a common base vehicle in NZ, and we liked Ford's 1 hour radio cut off delay. Slightly irksome during the day, but an excellent sleep timer.

 

The first stage of implementing a similar facility in our 2006 Ducato was to install an illuminating switch above the bed/lounge area so that we could use the radio until we retired to bed.

 

Our son eventually produced a match box sized timer, which is simply programmed digitally by moving a switch from side to side. The basic time increment is 1 minute, and this can in theory be extended up to about 21 days!

 

The single centre OFF switch also selects either timed, or continuous operation, so in practice we have left the at a nominal 33 minutes (11111) in binary.

 

Perhaps there is a marketing opportunity here, for use in Rapido, and other motorhomes? I think a possible answer would be to use a timer module from Ebay, and graft it into the system, but it may also be necessary to have an alternative supply to the radio.

 

There is also, as Robin Hood has pointed out the dreaded Canbus. The trend to to use the radio display for other functions, could make alterations to the radio wiring more difficult. This seems to suggest that the best answer for future purchasers is Robin's suggestion of "radio ready" wiring.

 

Alan

[Robinhood]

...my 'van came with radio prep only.

 

The double-din unit I have fitted is wired (both power supplies, 'ignition switched' and unswitched) to the leisure battery.

 

The 'ignition switched' connection has a rocker switch inserted in-line to control the radio on-off, but the 'unswitched' circuit is connected direct to the leisure battery.

 

All other radio connections have been left as standard (in order to take advantage of things such as dimming when the headlights are on).

 

From your (Rapido) symptoms, I would suspect that the 'ignition switched' connection has been diverted to a permanent supply point (from either the vehicle or hab battery) with the additional rocker in-circuit controlling it, but the unswitched supply has been left connected to the vehicle battery (the current draw on starting inhibiting the radio for an instant). If this is the case, I would suspect the (diverted) switched supply is also coming from the vehicle battery.

 

Superficially, it would appear that the Pilote approach uses the leisure battery for the switched supply (and I would suspect that, having done that, the other supply has been configured similarly).