takeaflight Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I sold mu Hymer s700 a class a couple of years ago, and I have mist the lifestyle. However the Hymer was 7.5 Mtrs plus I towed a 5 Mtrs trailer and car, even though I did it for over 10 years you can never call it a relaxing drive. So I have been looking at panel vans, finding it difficult to come to terms with their prices. Do others find this or is it just me. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 As I understand it , the reason that panel vans cost more is because they take longer to build. The furniture has to be fitted into the existing bodywork - so only one or two people can work inside at any one time. Coachbuilts have the furniture fitted first, onto a platform ( i.e. the floor ) and the bodywork added afterwards. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 malc d - 2017-02-23 8:39 PM As I understand it , the reason that panel vans cost more is because they take longer to build. The furniture has to be fitted into the existing bodywork - so only one or two people can work inside at any one time. Coachbuilts have the furniture fitted first, onto a platform ( i.e. the floor ) and the bodywork added afterwards. ;-) I don't think that it's so much a case of how many people can work at the same time but the total man hours they take to build - which isn't the same thing. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Cup Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Having done a couple of van conversions, and having realised the time involved in planning and doing the work, the time came to look again. I looked at buying a pre-registered new van at a huge discount, and fitting it out with all the necessary equipment, and the resultant resale value. I came to the conclusion that I had better things to do with what's left of my life, namely enjoy using it, and look for a good commercial product at a good discount. The van I bought drives like a dream, is fully equipped so that I could enjoy from day 1, and has a better resale value owing to the popularity of such vehicles. And is arguably much less likely to have damp problems than some coachbuilts. That is my opinion, it is up to you of course, but these van conversions these days are proper motorhomes. If you can live with the reduced internal space, the benefit of which is of course that you can drive down the same roads as most cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 ron. - 2017-02-23 10:13 PM malc d - 2017-02-23 8:39 PM As I understand it , the reason that panel vans cost more is because they take longer to build. The furniture has to be fitted into the existing bodywork - so only one or two people can work inside at any one time. Coachbuilts have the furniture fitted first, onto a platform ( i.e. the floor ) and the bodywork added afterwards. ;-) I don't think that it's so much a case of how many people can work at the same time but the total man hours they take to build - which isn't the same thing. Ron Which should take less time than a CB. A panel van rolls off the production line and all the work involved for pvc is internal where a CB requires both internal and external fabrication. PVC's certainly are extremely expensive and reading posts on other forums, have to say i'm shocked at what i read. Owners invariably needing to modify their van to 'make things work' better.....another i read whose fresh water drain tap had snapped off within a few months of ownership. That was renewed under warranty, but then the second one broke just as the van was out of warranty. These are £50k vans we are talking about. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 A coach built van will probably be quicker to build than a PVC As has been stated, these are modular construction, and the interior cabinet work is pre-installed with the sides, all the ancilliaries can be sited with easy access, prior to the joining process. Take a look at the numerous factory videos- Adria is a good example. The initial cost of a complete van would almost certainly be more expensive than a chassis cab too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry McG Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Because you are less likely to suffer from damp in a PVC? 8-) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 If you think panel vans are dear, have a look at what it would cost you to buy the new equivalent of a Hymer S700 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-02-23 10:46 PM PVC's certainly are extremely expensive and reading posts on other forums, have to say i'm shocked at what i read. Owners invariably needing to modify their van to 'make things work' better.....another i read whose fresh water drain tap had snapped off within a few months of ownership. That was renewed under warranty, but then the second one broke just as the van was out of warranty. These are £50k vans we are talking about. 8-) I think this applies across all classes of motorhomes, not just PVC's. Had a look in one of these yesterday https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/reviews/motorhomes/details/carthago-chic-s-plus-i-58-xl/922203 the oven/grill is unusable, at £123k for the one we looked at is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Expensive in this country, yes, but there are a number of firms on the continent turning out cheap conversions. Look at Clever or RoadCar for example. Prices start at under 38,000 euros. The thing is they are quite basic with limited options. They are designed and engineered to be cheap and manufacturing is located in areas with cheaper labour costs. The economics rely on economies of scale and producing a standard product. Trying to convert them to RHD would not make sense. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I bought a panel van and fitted it out myself so I could have it how I wanted it. I have enjoyed doing it and eventually got about the best compromise I want. But its very time consuming, and i certainly wouldn't be able to sell it on at a profit. Even if I found a buyer who wanted this type of van thery would be reluctant to buy it from me because I have no brand as a coachbuilder. Trying to fit everything around the curves and nooks and crannies in a panel van must be far more time consuming than in a box shasped coachbuilt with straight flat walls, roof and right angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Looking at the professional conversions they have specially made mouldings to fit around all the awkward shapes on the inside of a panel van. (very time consuming for the DIY builder to get the same standard of appearance) This must be more expensive than the mass produced flat boards they use in a box shaped coachbuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Found this photo of what you start off with. Hardly a straight edge or right angle in sight. Everything is corrugated and curved. Thats what makes the thin flimsy steel sheet structure stronger, lighter and structually better than the flat board box shape like a coachbuilt. The downside is that working around all those awkward curves is more time consuming and expensive. (Its also much harder to insulate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 malc d - 2017-02-23 8:39 PM As I understand it , the reason that panel vans cost more is because they take longer to build. The furniture has to be fitted into the existing bodywork - so only one or two people can work inside at any one time. Coachbuilts have the furniture fitted first, onto a platform ( i.e. the floor ) and the bodywork added afterwards. ;-) John52 - 2017-03-01 9:20 AM Found this photo of what you start off with. Hardly a straight edge or right angle in sight. Everything is corrugated and curved. Thats what makes the thin flimsy steel sheet structure stronger, lighter and structually better than the flat board box shape like a coachbuilt. The downside is that working around all those awkward curves is more time consuming and expensive. (Its also much harder to insulate) Someone, I believe it may have been Derek U, put up a link to a video by a European manufacturer that de bunked most of the time and persons able to work inside excuses, I have tried to find the post but have been unable to. The fact is the first one they do, and why a home convertor finds it time consuming, may take time but once the prototype is made, all the dimensions and furnishings are repeated so the time taken is not that great compared to a Coachbuilt and may even be quicker! I would be the first to accept that these prototyping costs need to be built into normal sales and of course the base vehicle is more costly than a chassis cab, both of which will increase the costs and likewise the sale price however how much of the cost is due to that and how much is due to their current popularity, i.e. demand allows them to charge what they can relative to every other seller, is a question only the convertors can answer. I have to say that we bit the bullet and changed from a six berth to a three berth PVC two years ago and it was one of the best things we have done, wouldn't go back to a CB now. Basil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry McG Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 a YouTube film of a Globecar PVC build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Several years back Eddie put up a video of a Globecar being fitted out, looked to be a fairly productionised process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 You can't see very clearly in my photo, but I can tell you there is hardly a flat surface or a right angle inside the van! I don't think vans take that much longer in the factory because the coachbuilders have specially made mouldings ready to go in. But these mouldings will be produced in relatively small quantities, and when the base vehicle manufacturers bring out a new van they have development and tooling costs to produce new mouldings. This will be more expensive than the mass produced flat boards used in coachbuilts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Visited the Hymer factory in Bad Waldsee in 2010. The visit lasted about two hours and during that time a chassis-cab drove onto the production line and departed at the other end as a fully completed and dressed motorhome. Visited the converter of my new PVC a couple of weeks ago. They have made good progress with my vehicle including incorporating some extra tweeks. Should get it very soon. Build time a number of days spread over weeks. No comparison in structural integrity or build quality. Oh and my 5.4m PVC costs less than the Hymer Van 314 and is much more highly speccd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 takeaflight - 2017-02-23 9:16 PM I sold mu Hymer s700 a class a couple of years ago, and I have mist the lifestyle. However the Hymer was 7.5 Mtrs plus I towed a 5 Mtrs trailer and car, even though I did it for over 10 years you can never call it a relaxing drive. So I have been looking at panel vans, finding it difficult to come to terms with their prices. Do others find this or is it just me. Roy The basic new van is about £20,000 +with a decent engine spec, cab air con, rad.etc before its fitted out for starters .Would have thought the base units for coachbuilts (Chassis/Cab)would be a lot cheaper particularly with the numbers the manufactures purchase. Brian K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeaflight Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 To answer my own question, I think it's the uk base vehicle cost, as one of the other posters pointed out there are foreign conversions at reasonable costs. With cnc the interior can be produced quite quickly and at a reasonable cost. But the base vehicle, well you have only got to look at van sales to see the high prices asked. The truth is they don't won't to sell them, what the manufactures and dealers prefer is to lease. Have a look at how much a Sprinter will cost you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 takeaflight - 2017-03-03 5:38 PM To answer my own question, I think it's the uk base vehicle cost, as one of the other posters pointed out there are foreign conversions at reasonable costs. With cnc the interior can be produced quite quickly and at a reasonable cost. But the base vehicle, well you have only got to look at van sales to see the high prices asked. The truth is they don't won't to sell them, what the manufactures and dealers prefer is to lease. Have a look at how much a Sprinter will cost you. I don't know what the converters pay but it won't be retail list prices. I can see why dealers and customers may prefer to lease vans, but what difference does it make to the manufacturers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Gerry McG - 2017-03-01 12:19 PM a YouTube film of a Globecar PVC build Interesting movie. You see the specially formed panels being put it. Perhaps the bigger (continental?) motorhome builders buy these in sufficient quantities to bring the price down. If van conversions were made in big enough quantities they might be as cheap to manufacture as coachbuilts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 John52 - 2017-03-05 8:00 AM Gerry McG - 2017-03-01 12:19 PM a YouTube film of a Globecar PVC build Interesting movie. You see the specially formed panels being put it. Perhaps the bigger (continental?) motorhome builders buy these in sufficient quantities to bring the price down. If van conversions were made in big enough quantities they might be as cheap to manufacture as coachbuilts? Very interesting film, as there are more people working inside it than I would have imagined. However, it would be interesting to see film of a comparable size coachbuilt being assembled as I would assume that most of the ' furniture' is assembled elsewhere and simply stuck/screwed to the platform before the bodywork is added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 malc d - 2017-03-05 9:38 AM However, it would be interesting to see film of a comparable size coachbuilt being assembled as I would assume that most of the ' furniture' is assembled elsewhere and simply stuck/screwed to the platform before the bodywork is added. Malc, I can't comment on 'all' coachbuilts but having toured the AutoTrail factory on several occasions they do it subtly differently. They fit the floor to the chassis with all water, gas, electrical, waste, etc, protruding through in relevant places. They then build the 'body' on a very substantial steel 'platten' or trolley. This is absolutely flat ensuring all furniture and walls are square. This starts with all cupboards, shower, kitchen, beds, sofas, etc being positioned and fixed together. The walls and roof structure are then added to the furniture and secured together, Finally the whole body is lifted (typically through the window openings) and lowered onto the chassis and floor. The whole assembly is then secured down onto the floor. And as a final touch the floating fibreglass roof is dropped over the whole thing and sealed down. There are probably photos on the AT website or certainly on the ATOC website from previous factory visits. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Keithl - 2017-03-05 10:19 AM malc d - 2017-03-05 9:38 AM However, it would be interesting to see film of a comparable size coachbuilt being assembled as I would assume that most of the ' furniture' is assembled elsewhere and simply stuck/screwed to the platform before the bodywork is added. Malc, I can't comment on 'all' coachbuilts but having toured the AutoTrail factory on several occasions they do it subtly differently. They fit the floor to the chassis with all water, gas, electrical, waste, etc, protruding through in relevant places. They then build the 'body' on a very substantial steel 'platten' or trolley. This is absolutely flat ensuring all furniture and walls are square. This starts with all cupboards, shower, kitchen, beds, sofas, etc being positioned and fixed together. The walls and roof structure are then added to the furniture and secured together, Finally the whole body is lifted (typically through the window openings) and lowered onto the chassis and floor. The whole assembly is then secured down onto the floor. And as a final touch the floating fibreglass roof is dropped over the whole thing and sealed down. There are probably photos on the AT website or certainly on the ATOC website from previous factory visits. Keith. Thanks Keith. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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