NINOT Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Hallo, I am in the process of van conversion. Just purchased 210W mono solar panel and 2 Varta LFD90 batteries. I want to rely on solar, and when necessary use EFOY fuel cell. EFOY people recommend using BUTTNER battery computer MT4000H (no need for charge regulator) https://www.buettner-elektronik.de/produkte/batterie-zubehoer/batterie-computer/produkt/show/batterie-computer-mt-4000-h.html which automatically detects drop in voltage and turns "ON" EFOY fuel cell. My concern is the price which is around 500 euro. My idea is to use VOTRONIC MPP 250 DUO http://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products2/solar-technology/charging-controllers/standard-version-mpp/mpp-250-duo-dig with solar computer. http://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products/solar-technology/lcd-solar-computer (total about 200 euro). Since the voltage of the batteries is visible on display I can monitor it and when needed (at night, cloudy day) turn EFOY fuel cell "ON" manually. Does this sound right? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I like your choice of batteries, you have clearly done your homework on selecting quality items. We would suggest that 'manual' operation with the Votronic is a good option. The Buettner stuff is very good, but the Votronic is a better Solar Regulator, we think the best around. The Votronic MPPT 250 Duo Solar Regulator can be bought for around £100 : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Votronic-Duo-MPP-MPPT-Solar-Regulator-Charge-Controller-LiFePo4-Lithium-Lead-/251650998398?hash=item3a9791807e:g:I8EAAOSwPe1UHI4z They sell the 165 MPPT duo model at £70. The company is in Oz, but shipping is only around 8 days according to a customer who put us onto them. They are apparently one of the biggest Votronic Dealers down under and sell lots of these hence the low prices, which include shipping to the UK. They may also be able to supply the 'Power meter' at a discount? For a good compromise between battery life and usable power we would suggest you regard 50%/12.5v as your minimum discharge level before firing up the EFOY?. May we suggest you be wary of some of the battery discharge charts knocking around the web as they are mostly based on old technology batteries or have discharge levels lower than most battery manufacturers recommend for optimum life. I think some must have been created by Battery Retailers!! I have attached a recent chart created by Yuasa. Note that fully charged Varta Powerframe LFD90 batteries, because of their ultra efficiency, etc sit at 13.0v, so you should use the VRLA column, not the conventional column. If you make comparisons across the two VRLA and 'conventional' columns you will note that a 50% discharged Varta LFD/Bosch L5 is only 0.1v less than a fully charged old fashioned Antimony based battery. This extra high 'start voltage' of the LFD90 is beneficial when firing up Diesel Heaters, which you maybe have?, or running some TV's which won't run properly on voltages getting down near 12v, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 NINOT - 2017-02-28 2:11 PM . Since the voltage of the batteries is visible on display I can monitor it and when needed (at night, cloudy day) turn EFOY fuel cell "ON" manually. Does this sound right? Thanks Have you determined how much power you will be using? For most a 210w panel will feed enough power into batteries to last throu cloudy days and nighttime, the main (but not only) exception to this would be the depths of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINOT Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Thank you both for your help. Colin, I do not know how much power will I need, it will be a very basic stuff: fridge 48W, 1 submersible pump, 5-6 LED lights, Webasto (and inverter in the future). I basically followed advice given on forum to put biggest solar panel that can fit on the roof. I would be very happy if solar alone would do the job and not use EFOY which is expensive to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hi Having used the efoy for several years and using a 1500w inverter, I did not find the Efoy expensive to run. It monitors your battery and kicks in when required. We used 20 ltrs per year on average and with no fuel smells or noise it's brilliant. We have always had solar panels, normally 100to 140. But on cloudy days and if you use blown air heating you'll find the efoy a godsend. Should you purchase one. I have a 10 Ltr container stored in the dark and unopened for disposal. I made a daft mistake and let the efoy go with the last LeVoyageur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I would say that in all probability you will not need an Effoy, have you brought one yet? if not then I would recommend you hold off until you see how things go. We have a three way fridge and Truma heating but only 85w panel and for much of year are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINOT Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thanks everyone, I did not explain my situation very clearly. Last year I came across used EFOY 900 (600 euro) which I bought and used it last summer. The battery was Bosch S5 110Ah which was charged by Efoy only, did not have solar panel. The consumption of methanol was about 5L for a 5-6 day trip. The only thing running was a fridge. I do agree that Efoy fuel cell is a wonderful device (very expensive to buy new). Maybe the reason for high consumption was the faulty battery because last week I checked it and realised that it has to be replaced. That is why I want to go this season with a set-up described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINOT Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Hi Den, thanks for your offer, the problem is I am in Croatia and you are probably in England. The shipping would be very expensive. Thanks anyway, Regards, Nino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Hi Nino. Lucky you. Shipping is very arkward with the efoy fuel. If anyone else sees this post. It's available. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 EFOY is potentially a very useful back up source of 12v power except that it obliges you to carry a plastic container of highly inflamable fueland both the unit and the fuel are very expensive. Otherwise, once installed, it just sits there and does the job. Why it should be so very expensive is not clear. I suspect it boils down to a niche new product so a high margin. Not for the mass motorhome market, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan V Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 NINOT - 2017-02-28 3:11 PM Hallo, I am in the process of van conversion. Just purchased 210W mono solar panel and 2 Varta LFD90 batteries. I want to rely on solar, and when necessary use EFOY fuel cell. EFOY people recommend using BUTTNER battery computer MT4000H (no need for charge regulator) https://www.buettner-elektronik.de/produkte/batterie-zubehoer/batterie-computer/produkt/show/batterie-computer-mt-4000-h.html which automatically detects drop in voltage and turns "ON" EFOY fuel cell. My concern is the price which is around 500 euro. My idea is to use VOTRONIC MPP 250 DUO http://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products2/solar-technology/charging-controllers/standard-version-mpp/mpp-250-duo-dig with solar computer. http://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products/solar-technology/lcd-solar-computer (total about 200 euro). Since the voltage of the batteries is visible on display I can monitor it and when needed (at night, cloudy day) turn EFOY fuel cell "ON" manually. Does this sound right? Thanks Parking without 230 VAC connected is made easy with solar and fuel cell. Any given day our consumption of Amps would be aprox. 100 A during 24 hrs.. Yes I now its a high number..... but thats the reading on my Votronic LCD. My 400 watts solar panels provide all the A I need during sunny summer conditions. I am using a Votronic MPPT 350 Dual solar regulator. Added up my solars should provide aprox 22 Amps at the best.. (or more; MPPT 400 / 12,7 = 31 Amps) In real life more like this; 5A early morning, 17 A mid day; Average charge from MPPT would be 12 Amps, The result of the solar charge is that - at every sunset my batteries would be 100% full - But then again; living in Norway the weather is not always perfect... On cloudy days, low solar angle, etc... the consumption of A´s exceed the production in my solar. On days like this I put my Efoy in operation. :-D Waking up in the morning I check my Volts & Amps.... and the weather. If weather tell me there will be low numbers from solar panels I do manually turn my Efoy into operation. To get the full picture I am using the Votronic LCD Battery Computer. Who need a tv or Facebook when we got the Votronic LCD :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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