chas Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Have been reading on another forum that insurance companys do not like safes being fitted and bolted to the floor of the van. Does anyone know if this is wide spread through the insurance market, and as anyone 1st hand knowledge of this? It seems to me that protecting ones valuables would be encouraged by the insurance market. Another point is, if there is no mention of excluding said fitment in the policy wording, would they be entitled to not pay out in the event of any damage caused by any thief. chas *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I can see the point though of the insurance companies' attitude to these kind of safes. If someone breaks into your motorhome and finds such a safe they are lead to one inescapable conclusion - that there is something of great value in the safe!So a normal break-in, in which damage is probably restricted to the door lock, becomes a major structural repair because the thieves have tried their hardest to break the safe from its fittings.I would actually feel more secure in hiding my small but valuable items in some really obscure place where the thief may not even consider looking. I'm pretty certain that the average yob breaking into a MH (and we're not talking your typical criminal mastermind here) would not even be expecting to find items of significant value. A safe however, would tell him just the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 chas - 2006-12-23 9:44 AM Have been reading on another forum that insurance companys do not like safes being fitted and bolted to the floor of the van. Does anyone know if this is wide spread through the insurance market, and as anyone 1st hand knowledge of this? It seems to me that protecting ones valuables would be encouraged by the insurance market. Another point is, if there is no mention of excluding said fitment in the policy wording, would they be entitled to not pay out in the event of any damage caused by any thief. chas *-) Hello ChasI think you just have to ask your own insurer for their reaction to the fitting of a safe, explaining what you would put in it and why and, if they are not in favour, getting them to explain their objections. After all, their objection may be more reasoned than is at first sight apparent and, if it is not, the insurer may, just, change their mind when(if!) they read what they have written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Further to Brians post, you might ask them if they will be covering replacement of stolen items that you might 'resonable' expect to not carry around with you, but might leave in safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 So the answer must be to fit a safe and leave the door open and hide your jewels and valuables else here :-) Seriously though, was considering a safe for small laptop camera etc… in new van which I pick up in February. Not sure what to do now… Maybe best to rely on decent alarm and extra dead locks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I'm going to be contentious now, I fit alarms but in reality what does an alarm do? Well it'll make a noise if someone tries to break in to your motorhome. Question; will it actually stop the thief from breaking in? Over to you guys............. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 As a mate of mine says, a lock is only there to stop an honest man. I used to fit alarms to cars I bought but haven't bothered with the last 3 or 4. Three reasons: 1. Immobilisers fitted by the manufacturer. 2. Alarms often ignored by the general public. 3. Modern car electrics are complicated for a dummy like me. The van had an alarm & immobiliser fitted when we bought it so I didn't have to bother. Phew (lol) Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 The alarm will hopefully bring attention to the attempt and put of amateurs - the additional dead locks will slow them down and the safe likewise... Plus the above give some security while sleeping in camper as well Personally if I was a thief I would get on roof and get in via rood light which I am sure can be broken with your bare hands! Does the insurance companies dislike of safes also extend to dead locks as more damage will be done to the doors by a determined thief in this respect as well And no one has mentioned GASSSSS!!!!! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 My intention of the post was , are safes, the best form of additional security. My reasoning is a safe is to slow down a thief, and in my opinion it would. The adverage thief is a 10min merchant who needs to get in bag anything in sight and out again, while the alarm is constantly recycling. There can be no deterant against a proffessional determed one. My thinking is one can only carry around so much gear, and things such as passports /credit cards/ documentation/ ferry tickets, and so on must be left secure somewhere. If abroad, the loss of these items would be a disaster. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Personally I would never leave important documents and credit cards in camper - to me thats just asking for trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 Quite agree with you,but try going on a crowded beach in shorts and T shirt , or around a busy market and I think you will agree which carrys the greatest risk.. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 chas - 2006-12-24 11:49 AM Quite agree with you,but try going on a crowded beach in shorts and T shirt , or around a busy market and I think you will agree which carrys the greatest risk.. chas ChasOn that point, in quite a few European countries it is a legal requirement to have your official identification papers, i.e. passport, with you at all times.Without, you can be arrested if challenged for identification, and held until the police are satisfied as to your identity. They do not necessarily make taking you to your motorhome, so that you can find what they think you should have been carrying, their highest priority!In Greece, the requirement to carrying your papers extends to the beach and, I understand, also to swimming as well. Yes, you even need a waterproof carrier fo your passport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 There are loads of hiding places in campers I have found, for example ;- 1. Fittings that can be unscrewed, papers and documents can be hidden behind the fittings. 2. Easy to fashion false locker walls, false cupboard and locker floors, made from plywood, snug fitted or screwed into place, and suitably disguised with a piece of original wall paper or stained to match the existing finish. 3. Laptops can be stored (disguised) in a lightly padded plastic freezer bag from supermarkets (50p) and hidden in gas lockers or below wardrobes, boilers and beds. 4. Finally where I hide all my things, Also I had returned 500 euros, left in my old camper in a brown envelope, I actually forgot I had hidden it there! Regards (err!) Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Let me reiterate my theory.Scenario one - A typical thief breaks into a motor home. As has been stated, these are usually ten minute jobs. He quickly looks around, opens drawers and bed lockers and steals anything remotely portable. He's not expecting the Crown Jewels or a £15K Rolex as it's a motorhome, not a posh mansion.The damage done is minimal, probably amounting to a forced door or window. The insurer probably pays out few hundred pounds for a portable TV, digi-box and minor damage.Scenario two - Whilst ransacking the cupboards he comes across a safe - what's the first thing that comes into his mind? It has to be "Brilliant, must be something really valuable here".He now spends every minute that he can spare trying to separate the safe from its mounting and in doing so may cause a huge amount of damage to the structure of the 'van.If you must leave passports for instance (and I wouldn't), why not wrap them in plastic and hide them under the pull-out lavatory or under a gas bottle. These are just two examples of places that a thief, with only minutes to spare, wouldn't even think of looking, and there are other obscure places in every motorhome that only we know about.Edited to say that this was written whilst TerryTraveller was posting the one above and I hadn't seen it - but we obviously think alike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTORHOMER Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 chas - 2006-12-23 9:44 AM Have been reading on another forum that insurance companys do not like safes being fitted and bolted to the floor of the van. Does anyone know if this is wide spread through the insurance market, and as anyone 1st hand knowledge of this? It seems to me that protecting ones valuables would be encouraged by the insurance market. Another point is, if there is no mention of excluding said fitment in the policy wording, would they be entitled to not pay out in the event of any damage caused by any thief. chas *-) hello I was the one who mentioned that & my thoughts are the same as yours so as I said I mentioned it thinking i was being responsible & putting valuable camera computer etc in a safe place when not in use but the insurance company jumprd down my throat so to speake & said if I had a safe box & it was bolted to the floor then they wouldnt insure me. They said other companies might also have the same view. They would however accept a lockable box but not a safe . . Motorhomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTORHOMER Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 JudgeMental - 2006-12-23 2:06 PM So the answer must be to fit a safe and leave the door open and hide your jewels and valuables else here :-) Seriously though, was considering a safe for small laptop camera etc… in new van which I pick up in February. Not sure what to do now… Maybe best to rely on decent alarm and extra dead locks We use a steel cable for the laptop which the insurer insisted on to attach to a permanent piece of furniture. It stop the quick snatch thief & buys a bit of time. Motorhomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTORHOMER Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Dave Newell - 2006-12-23 3:50 PM I'm going to be contentious now, I fit alarms but in reality what does an alarm do? Well it'll make a noise if someone tries to break in to your motorhome. Question; will it actually stop the thief from breaking in? Over to you guys............. D. In a word NO. Our alarm went off and the b****** carried on even drew the curtains road side while he was at work so no one could see him. Motorhomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 MOTORHOMER - 2006-12-24 3:07 PM Dave Newell - 2006-12-23 3:50 PM I'm going to be contentious now, I fit alarms but in reality what does an alarm do? Well it'll make a noise if someone tries to break in to your motorhome. Question; will it actually stop the thief from breaking in? Over to you guys............. D. In a word NO. Our alarm went off and the b****** carried on even drew the curtains road side while he was at work so no one could see him. Motorhomer That was precisely my point! Any alarm will make a noise but how many times have we been in a town centre and seen/heard an alarm sounding? Did any of ous do anything about it? I tried once, I reported an alarm sounding and someone looking suspicious in the near vicinity to the security staff in our main town centre. The reply? "What do you expect me to do, I'm centre security, all vehicles are parked at the owners risk!" When we're inside our motorhomes rthen yes an alarm system should wake us up if its triggered but if the vehicle is left unattended then I do wonder how much of a deterrent any alarm is. I'm not saying we shouldn't fit alarms, I've fitted them on all our vehicles but unless we're in earshot of the vehicle when its broken into what good will it do? To get back on topic (apologies for hijacking it) I think a safe, securely bolted into the vehicle will deter a thief unless they can take the vehicle to a remote spot where they know they won't be disturbed. It does need to be bolted into the base vehicle steelwork in such a way as you need to open it to remove it (bolted from inside in other words), bolting it to a wooden floor is like closing the letter box but leaving the door open. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Might seem a silly question, but as were comparitively new to motorhoming, but have had a caravan for 15 years.HOW MANY MOTORHOMES have actually been broken into and burgled?? Stolen I gather that they are quite a few BUT as most insurance companies wont insure unless you have a class 1 Alarm fitted reading the posts about people ignoring alarms going off WHATS THE POINT?? we might as well leave Doors unlocked Alarms off Everything out . Dont bother with Safes as they are useless if Not bolted down CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Now the low lifes know where to look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 maggyd - 2006-12-26 1:51 PM Might seem a silly question, but as were comparitively new to motorhoming, but have had a caravan for 15 years.HOW MANY MOTORHOMES have actually been broken into and burgled?? Stolen I gather that they are quite a few BUT as most insurance companies wont insure unless you have a class 1 Alarm fitted reading the posts about people ignoring alarms going off WHATS THE POINT?? we might as well leave Doors unlocked Alarms off Everything out . Dont bother with Safes as they are useless if Not bolted down CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY. (?) Motorhomes broken into, quite a few, but it does depend on where they are parked. Choosing where you park wisely is a better policy than any number of safes/locks.Alarms: we don't have one, for all the reasons given above. Don't have any problem insuring the 'van without. Also, if you have one, and it can be proved you didn't set it, bye bye insurance company!Doors unlocked? Of course not. Lock as usual, but leave nothing - meaning absolutely nothing - out on view. Many thieves like to see there is some point to the risk before breaking in. If there is nothing to see, and the 'van is locked, it is evens they'll go elsewhere.I met a German in Italy with a hired 'van, fitted with a safe. He'd been broken into, and the thief had half trashed the van interour trying to rip out the safe. Quite a bill, I suspect, for the poor hirer! QED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 This is the safe we use under our fixed bed. It is wound round the metal bed frame base. We bought ours from Halfords. Won't damage the van with this and they would have to take the base of the bed with them otherwise ! http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/66130/beat_sat_nav_theft_with_a_strongbox.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Anything worth storing in a safe should not be left in an unattended motorhome. Take it with you! Camera, Passports, Vehicle documentation, cash. Most motorhomes also have many hidden hidey holes that can be used to deter the oportunist thief from finding your favourite nick nacks, but for anyone determined they will find it. If you want to attract a thief put a notice on the door saying "Safe fitted to this vehicle" . Then they will know that there is something worth nicking inside. Re alarms, the important bit here is that when it goes off its painfully deafening inside the van and not easy to turn off without knowing how and that it sends you a text message to your mobile. What you then do when you are 60 minutes away on a walk is PANIC. Happy New year. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 We hear so much about so called gas attacks to ocupants in vans, when will some enterprising manufacturer develope a knock out gas system that triggers off when some b. . . . . d ! gains entry via the alarm . Please, the liberal/ do-gooders amongst us , I am only wishfull thinking, or am I !. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Chas, lets not open the gas attack debate again. There are security systems that will set off a smoke bomb in the interior if they're triggered. The smoke is harmless (I beleive) but very thick making it impossible to see what you're doing in the vehicle. Doing something like this with knock out gas is a big no-no because you can't control the dosage applied to any person. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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