FIAT Ducato 2.3 Multijet recall - camshaft failure

[Wortho]

I just noticed this on one of the Aussie camping forums but unsure if other markets are affected. Also does'nt mention year of affected vehicles. Any recalls for this in the UK?

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/fca-australia-pty-ltd-fiat-ducato

[Derek Uzzell]

The Australian reference is light on detail and the 2.3 Multijet motor has been fitted to Ducato since 2002.

 

There’s currently no mention of this on the UK’s VOSA recall database

 

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp

[Wortho]

Thanks, I agree and they should have provided more details. Hopefully they will update shortly as the recall was only announced today.

[euroserv]

I have a strong suspicion that this ties in with recent events concerning a vehicle that we have been waiting for for several months.

 

The build of a chassis cab we had on order was delayed from November 2016 to January 17, which i guess is neither here nor there but when it arrived at Bristol it was held up along with a large number of other vehicles for some 'rework/recall work'.

 

We were told that there were a lot of vehicles involved and that it would take a week or two to get through it and that the vehicles could not leave Bristol until they were done. We found out in the last week of February that our vehicle has been shipped back to Italy and we won't see it until the end of March! We have not been given a reason, (not for want of asking!) and i am obviously hopping mad about it but this would seem the most plausible answer.

 

We will have to wait and see how many vehicles are already in circulation but it would seem that a batch of faulty camshafts must have been supplied to Fiat and it is reasonable to assume that it only affects 2.3 litre engines.

 

I would strongly advise anyone that is about to take delivery of a new Fiat Ducato vehicle should hold on to their money and find out whether it is a good one or not. You don't want to have paid for or be paying for something that you cannot use! If the dealers don't like it, tell them to complain to Fiat. Their lack of transparency regarding this is shameful. I could easily have been paying for a vehicle that needs to be repaired and would be getting no compensation for it!

 

I will let you know more as soon i do.

 

N

[Geeco]

I have just been advised that the vin nos between ZFA25000002D26560 & ZFA25000002D50789 here in Australia from January 2017 compliance are the only vehicles affected. It takes around two months for the sea journey so the dates in UK could be approx Oct/Nov compliance. Nick sounds like your theory was on the money.

cheers,

[Gerry McG]

my Sept 16 build PVC chassis has a 2.3L 150 hp Euro 6 MultiJet2 engine and is chassis no 02C55128 and there are no recalls showing on the Fiat camper App.

I had a recall for an ECU update done a couple of weeks ago but it only took 20 min, so nothing oily involved...

[Derek Uzzell]

The Australian recall warning was apparently only published yesterday and - based on Gary’s follow-up information - Ducatos built in 2016 should be unaffected. Having said that, anyone who has obtained a Ducato with 2.3litre motor recently would be well advised to check its VIN-number against the range Gary provided.

 

(I can’t find any non-Australian reference to this problem, but it’s early days...)

[Gerry McG]

that's 24,229 units between the affected VIN nos - how many are imported into AUS in the affected period? that might give an indication as to whether the VIN nos are exclusively an AUS batch, or if this is the global batch.

[euroserv]

Thanks Gary,

 

Mine is 700 numbers short of the highest one so it's towards the end of the problem but definitely in the range. Mine was built on 5th Jan 2017 so there will certainly be vehicles built in November and December 2016 that are affected.

 

This is going to be a real headache for anyone that has already taken delivery of one of these. It's really shocking that i have been waiting over 2 weeks for any kind of explanation from Fiat for why it was put back on a boat to Italy, and still officially know nothing! I suspect that the scale of the problem will render the estimated return date of 'the end of March' extremely unlikely.

[artheytrate]

I've got a new Globecar Campscout FIAT 2.3 on order, supposed to be picking it up middle of this month, I phoned dealer last Monday and was told it was still in Germany. I will just have to cross my fingers.

 

John.

[Geeco]

This is a copy of a report in "motoring.com.au" on the size of the relevant Australian market sectors in 2015.

"Some 7649 such vehicles were registered in 2015 (vans and cab/chassis derivatives with a Gross Vehicle Mass, or GVM, of over 3.5t), and while that’s significantly below the equivalent figure for medium vans (17,094 units), for the manufacturers involved it still represents a large and lucrative slice of the automotive market.

In fact, the large van market is on a charge right now, with last year’s registrations up a hefty 19.7 per cent from the previous year.

Hoarding the lion’s share of the action is the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter, which accounted for 37.9 per cent of large van registrations in 2015. That’s followed by Renault’s Master (19.7 per cent), Fiat’s Ducato (15.1 per cent), Ford’s Transit (10.4 per cent), Iveco’s Daily (11.4 per cent) and Volkswagen’s Crafter (5.5 per cent)."

The above figures would show that the sales of Fiat Ducato from both market sectors would be somewhere around 4000 units. Based on that premise there are Ducatos elsewhere that need the fix.

I am not sure how the Vin nos work but one Fiat dealer said the Vin no on my UK sourced AT Tracker was different to the Vin nos he was used to seeing on Ducatos imported by Fiat AU and sold to the local motorhome manufacturers.

Renault picked up a contract to supply Australia Post with mail vans around that time. I suspect that could be the reason for more sales than Ducato. Fiat/Chrysler Aust has replaced a previous importer for the light van sector and seem to be working hard to build the brand. They have appointed service only dealers to help support the motorhome market. I have been impressed with the support they have given me when I needed their help to arrange the computer upgrade to fix the dash lighting issue.

Cheers,

[Derek Uzzell]

Presumably a Fiat Professional agent should be able to establish the build-date ‘window’ from the first and last VIN-numbers Gary provided above.

 

Assuming that the final 5 numbers of the those two VIN numbers do represent a simple sequence (as Gerry has said, that would mean over twenty thousand vehicles are involvedl) and Nick (euroserv) has said one of his Ducatos is in the VIN-number range, there’s very little chance this recall applies just to Australia.

 

(I’m not sure I’ve mentioned this before on this forum, but I was told by a Fiat Professional agent towards the end of last year that Ducatos were entering the UK and being ‘re-engined’ before being delivered to Fiat dealerships. It was just a throwaway comment and the agent said he did not know why.)

[euroserv]

There has indeed been a great deal of mystery surrounding Ducato supply of late. Last year we had long delays that were eventually attributed to a problem with the paint plant that accommodated the long wheelbase vans and chassis; at least as far as the dealers were told. Actually there was a problem that lasted about a month before production was switched to Peugeot and Citroen production of Euro 5 vehicles while the Fiat effectively halted production in preparation for Euro 6.

 

Towards the end of last year, delivery times changed from the normal 12 to 14 weeks to 26 weeks due to 'massive production demand that they can't keep up with'. I now suspect that the actual problem was that they had no engines left! It looks to me as if they thought the problem was solved and suddenly found another rogue batch of engines that had already been fitted.

 

I have checked the chassis number of our vehicle that is back in Italy and that of the first vehicle listed in the 'range' said to be affected and neither are recognised by the Fiat parts system. This is very unusual. I can't therefore help with finding an 'earliest affected date' nor will any UK dealer it would seem.

 

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

In case of a fiat ducato recall you have not to worry what happens in their production plant. It is not of your concern and a internal matter. In principle you have to do nothing . In case of a recall fiat should inform the authorities of the car papers. They contact the importers and if fiat you will receive a recall letter if you have the right address. So first the DLVA-fiat- and than the car registration in case they can reach you. In case you bought a new motor home but had still no licence it is up to seller to deal whit the recall. If you do not exercise the recalls you can lose guarantee.But that is another subject for discussion.I think there is not a follow up by the importer.

[Geeco]

If you click on the OP (Wortho) link to the recall notice you will see it has been up dated with the VIN nos and date range for the AU market only, as supplied by FCA AUST (Fiat Chrysler). The list is some 56 numbers so as Derek has indicated the first list I posted would probably be all market areas not just AU. It seems like they have done a pretty good job of containing the "fallout" from this production glitch. Although I am pleased I am not paying the bills. cheers, 

[Gerry McG]

I've entered 2 random affected AUS VIN nose into the Fiat camper App and they both come up with a red warning to contact Fiat. I tried the first and final VIN in the big list and they come up green,

Perhaps Fiat have managed to catch the European ones before they got to customers?

 

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/gerrymcgarrity/Misc/D4455336-BFB5-4048-BE0A-E2B0CEDD8D09_zpsldazmmm8.png

 

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/gerrymcgarrity/Misc/52ECC17E-0B8B-4B6F-9F05-7785CD978F63_zpskqeorrfu.png

 

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/gerrymcgarrity/Misc/055E1A61-54BE-4F8E-8051-06F1F525BD3E_zps0apy5mpk.png

[Bop]

Morning All,

 

We've just ordered our new MH and it has a Fiat Ducato 2.3 150BHP Euro-6 engine inside. The delivery date is June/July-17. Is there a chance that it could be effected by the problems mentioned in this thread and if so then should I be going back to the dealer to confirm the engine details.

 

Thanks and Regards,

 

Andrew

 

P.S. Well done Wortho, Gerry, Gary and Nick.

[euroserv]

Bop - 2017-03-09 9:42 AM

 

Morning All,

 

We've just ordered our new MH and it has a Fiat Ducato 2.3 150BHP Euro-6 engine inside. The delivery date is June/July-17. Is there a chance that it could be effected by the problems mentioned in this thread and if so then should I be going back to the dealer to confirm the engine details.

 

Thanks and Regards,

 

Andrew

 

P.S. Well done Wortho, Gerry, Gary and Nick.

 

If the chassis is being ordered specifically for you from the fiat factory; there should be no problem with the vehicle as the issues will have been resolved by the time it is built but i would not pin my hopes too much on the estimated delivery date. That could well be 4 to 6 weeks longer than normal. If the chassis is already with the converter; it is possible that it is affected. My advice would be to ask the supplier to check the chassis number against the known range of defective vehicles before parting with your money and if it needs to be repaired, get them to get it done before you pay and take delivery. I don't think there is much worse than having to lose your new vehicle once you have paid or are paying for it and not being compensated for the loss of use. If you can prevent that; all the better.

[Bop]

euroserv - 2017-03-09 11:10 AM

 

 

If the chassis is being ordered specifically for you from the fiat factory; there should be no problem with the vehicle as the issues will have been resolved by the time it is built but i would not pin my hopes too much on the estimated delivery date. That could well be 4 to 6 weeks longer than normal. If the chassis is already with the converter; it is possible that it is affected. My advice would be to ask the supplier to check the chassis number against the known range of defective vehicles before parting with your money and if it needs to be repaired, get them to get it done before you pay and take delivery. I don't think there is much worse than having to lose your new vehicle once you have paid or are paying for it and not being compensated for the loss of use. If you can prevent that; all the better.

 

Many thanks Nick,

 

I have a feeling that our new van is already in the system so I'm going to dispatch an email to the dealer with the relevant info/concern.

 

Fingers crossed,

 

Andrew

[dicksob]

Hi, our panel van arrived from Italy at the beginning of February, so thought that it would be caught up in this recall. Just received my vin number, ZFA25000002D14269, which looks like it was built a bit before those affected. Anyone have any means of dating the build from the vin or could I get it from a Fiat Professional dealer?

Thanks

Bill

[Bop]

euroserv - 2017-03-09 11:10 AM

 

Bop - 2017-03-09 9:42 AM

 

Morning All,

 

We've just ordered our new MH and it has a Fiat Ducato 2.3 150BHP Euro-6 engine inside. The delivery date is June/July-17. Is there a chance that it could be effected by the problems mentioned in this thread and if so then should I be going back to the dealer to confirm the engine details.

 

Thanks and Regards,

 

Andrew

 

P.S. Well done Wortho, Gerry, Gary and Nick.

 

If the chassis is being ordered specifically for you from the fiat factory; there should be no problem with the vehicle as the issues will have been resolved by the time it is built but i would not pin my hopes too much on the estimated delivery date. That could well be 4 to 6 weeks longer than normal. If the chassis is already with the converter; it is possible that it is affected. My advice would be to ask the supplier to check the chassis number against the known range of defective vehicles before parting with your money and if it needs to be repaired, get them to get it done before you pay and take delivery. I don't think there is much worse than having to lose your new vehicle once you have paid or are paying for it and not being compensated for the loss of use. If you can prevent that; all the better.

 

Nick,

 

A quick follow-up: It looks as if our van is not with the converter yet so we are likely to be out of the woods.

 

Cheers for your help,

 

Andrew

[Keith T]

Are these all chassis cab versions? We have a PVC on order (Autotrail) and due for delivery early April...is this likely to be affected??

[dicksob]

Keith, as above, I ordered my panel van through IH in October, special spec. I'm told by Mick at SAP that Fiat had problems in their paint shop which caused some delays in build. I thought therefore that mine would be caught up, it didn't arrive till February, but from the vin no doesn't appear to be. When did you order your van? Factory order? Think you might need to wait for vin number, then check? Dealer probably unable to help and it's not a uk recall yet. So here's hoping for tad best?

Bill

[artheytrate]

I now pick our new Globecar Campscout up on the 3rd of April so will check the vin number then.

 

John.

[Derek Uzzell]

Has anybody asked Fiat(UK) about this?

 

It’s not like this is internet hearsay - the Australian recall notice can be viewed on-line and Gary has provided the range of VIN-numbers involved.

 

While it may be the case that Fiat has addressed the problem within Europe before affected vehicles reached dealerships/converters, it would be helpful for this to be confirmed.