Barryd999 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 But immigration controls itself. If you look at what Brian has said its there whether you like it or not, Brexit or not. So you can kind of take immigration out of the equation and as said what are you left with? A pointless Brexit for no reason whatsoever. As we have already seen immigration is controlled by supply and demand not by leaving the EU. Kick all the EU foreigners out or make them so unwelcome they leave anyway and all the signs are there that they are but then you just have to replace them with some more from God knows where. They will only continue to come here while there is opportunity. Supply and demand controls immigration so your not taking back control of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 4:31 PM They will only continue to come here while there is opportunity. Supply and demand controls immigration so your not taking back control of anything. So we're short of murderers, rapists, thieves, paedophiles, big issue sellers, Romanian Gypsies are we? *-) ......... If we have control of our borders we can chose who we allow in ;-) ......and if we're not in the EU the ECJ cant override our decisions B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-19 3:03 PM..............So its not all immigrants we are asking to leave but just some ??? ... Personally Ive never suggested any should leave just good immigration at sensible levels and thats the view held by most Brexit voters I believe Apologies, but should I take that to mean that so far as you are concerned, the present immigration levels are about right? I must confess, having read many of your posts on this subject, that you thought present immigration was too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-19 3:03 PM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 2:40 PM antony1969 - 2017-03-19 1:53 PM.....................................But who's asked all the migrants currently here to leave ??? No-one, of course, Antony. But, "too many immigrants" seems to be a common cry, does it not? So, if there are said to be too many, it suggests that (at least in the minds of those of that opinion), there should be less. For there to be less (fewer) some have to go, don't they? Besides which, all the migration figures show that foreign workers continually come and go. They don't just arrive, and stay for ever. At present, more tend to be leaving than arriving, so the number is falling. Look back at the numbers I quoted above, and ask yourself how many can go before we begin to experience labour shortages (and I mean real shortages, when there really are insufficient workers to fill vacant posts)? When that happens, two things tend to follow. One is wage-push inflation, which quickly leads to rising prices. The other is falling domestic output, which generally leads to rising imports. Neither is good for the overall economy. Reality says we shall have to maintain the level of immigration at, or close to, its present levels, to maintain the present level of economic activity. So, what then of the arguments about "controlling" (which so many seemed to interpret as meaning stopping), immigration? Take that issue out of the Brexit vote, and what would we have been left with? So its not all immigrants we are asking to leave but just some ??? ... Personally Ive never suggested any should leave just good immigration at sensible levels and thats the view held by most Brexit voters I believe. Yorkie Barnsley Brexiter dunna agree with thee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-19 3:51 PM................. Ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid RemOAner brigade are to blinded by their own prejudices to allow controlled migration *-) ....... Ditto ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid Brexiteer brigade are too blinded by their own prejudices to see that the figures say "controlled migration" will not result in fewer migrants *-) ....... But, where does that get us Dave? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 5:13 PM antony1969 - 2017-03-19 3:03 PM..............So its not all immigrants we are asking to leave but just some ??? ... Personally Ive never suggested any should leave just good immigration at sensible levels and thats the view held by most Brexit voters I believe Apologies, but should I take that to mean that so far as you are concerned, the present immigrations levels are about right? I must confess, having read many of your posts on this subject, that you thought present immigration was too high. No need for apologies Brian ... I can't do anything about the amount of immigrants that are here now ... We are with Brexit hopefully moving forward with the quality of migrants we allow in and I can't imagine that anyone would surely argue thats a bad thing ... Maybe your better drawing your own conclusions on what I think regarding my past immigration posts as I will with yours after your Brexit voters want all immigrants to leave line ... Common ground on the subject I dont think we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-19 4:38 PM.................If we have control of our borders we can chose who we allow in ;-) ......and if we're not in the EU the ECJ cant override our decisions B-) ........ All true, Dave. But, that being the case, it doesn't explain why, after 40 years, we presently have 4,500,000 immigrants from outside the EU, and only 3,250,000 from within. Are you sure its the EU migrants who're causing all the trouble, and that applying the same controls to them in future as apply to the non-EU contingent will solve our problems? The figures just don't seem to support that line of argument. Or are you arguing for us to admit more immigrants from outside the EU, to replace those from within who, under Brexit, we're going to exclude? I ain't 'arf confused! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 5:33 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-19 4:38 PM.................If we have control of our borders we can chose who we allow in ;-) ......and if we're not in the EU the ECJ cant override our decisions B-) ........ All true, Dave. But, that being the case, it doesn't explain why, after 40 years, we presently have 4,500,000 immigrants from outside the EU, and only 3,250,000 from within. Are you sure its the EU migrants who're causing all the trouble, and that applying the same controls to them in future as apply to the non-EU contingent will solve our problems? The figures just don't seem to support that line of argument. Or are you arguing for us to admit more immigrants from outside the EU, to replace those from within who, under Brexit, we're going to exclude? I ain't 'arf confused! :-D No I'm arguing that we only allow those in that we need.......Simple init ;-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 5:20 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-19 3:51 PM................. Ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid RemOAner brigade are to blinded by their own prejudices to allow controlled migration *-) ....... Ditto ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid Brexiteer brigade are too blinded by their own prejudices to see that the figures say "controlled migration" will not result in fewer migrants *-) ....... But, where does that get us Dave? (lol) If those extra migrants are needed then fine........But do we need more criminals? a question I keep asking and you Remoaners keep ignoring ;-) ..........and do we need 100's of thousands of low skilled workers who effectively allow big business to suppress wages, and pass on the buck of providing a adequate living wage to the taxpayer by topping up their wages with tax credits *-)....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 5:20 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-19 3:51 PM................. Ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid RemOAner brigade are to blinded by their own prejudices to allow controlled migration *-) ....... Ditto ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid Brexiteer brigade are too blinded by their own prejudices to see that the figures say "controlled migration" will not result in fewer migrants *-) ....... But, where does that get us Dave? (lol) Apparently it's because they all read the Beano so what else can be expected.......and that admittance came from a rabid Brexiteer on here!! (lol)(lol) pelmetman - 2017-03-18 8:34 PM Looks to me like most of those Beano readers voted for Brexit B-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 The Emperors clothes are starting to be exposed for what they are I think. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-03-19 5:48 PM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 5:20 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-19 3:51 PM................. Ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid RemOAner brigade are to blinded by their own prejudices to allow controlled migration *-) ....... Ditto ditto ;-) ........ Unfortunately the Rabid Brexiteer brigade are too blinded by their own prejudices to see that the figures say "controlled migration" will not result in fewer migrants *-) ....... But, where does that get us Dave? (lol) Apparently it's because they all read the Beano so what else can be expected.......and that admittance came from a rabid Brexiteer on here!! (lol)(lol) pelmetman - 2017-03-18 8:34 PM Looks to me like most of those Beano readers voted for Brexit B-) ....... Yep just goes to show Beano readers are not as thick as those who read the Guardian >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 5:33 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-19 4:38 PM.................If we have control of our borders we can chose who we allow in ;-) ......and if we're not in the EU the ECJ cant override our decisions B-) ........ All true, Dave. But, that being the case, it doesn't explain why, after 40 years, we presently have 4,500,000 immigrants from outside the EU, and only 3,250,000 from within. Are you sure its the EU migrants who're causing all the trouble, and that applying the same controls to them in future as apply to the non-EU contingent will solve our problems? The figures just don't seem to support that line of argument. Or are you arguing for us to admit more immigrants from outside the EU, to replace those from within who, under Brexit, we're going to exclude? I ain't 'arf confused! :-D You're forgetting that we haven't had a open door policy with the EU for 40 years......Just 10......and look how many have piled in 8-) ........ Kinda puts a different perspective on those figures doesn't it? ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:00 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica True they may have to line the pockets of the legal profession with legal aid first ;-) ......... https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jan/17/big-issue-seller-wins-right-housing-benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:00 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica So if they dont get benefits and have no money who pays for the housing/food/clothing/healthcare they may receive while here ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-20 10:08 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:00 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica True they may have to line the pockets of the legal profession with legal aid first ;-) ......... https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jan/17/big-issue-seller-wins-right-housing-benefit This article is from 2012 Dave. The one I posted deals with the rules as amended in 2014. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-20 10:09 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:00 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica So if they dont get benefits and have no money who pays for the housing/food/clothing/healthcare they may receive while here ??? Not the taxpayer under the amended rules in terms of housing, food and clothing. Don't know about the healthcare TBH you'd have to research that yourself. I could guess that like us they would have to rely on the EHIC system but it is only guess. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:31 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 10:08 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:00 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica True they may have to line the pockets of the legal profession with legal aid first ;-) ......... https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jan/17/big-issue-seller-wins-right-housing-benefit This article is from 2012 Dave. The one I posted deals with the rules as amended in 2014. Veronica You mean they're finally trying to pull up the benefit drawbridge? >:-) ........ Looks to me like there'll be some good earners for the legal profession coming up soon? :D ...... BTW I wonder what kinda bias those Realmedia folk have? ;-)......... http://realmedia.press/real-media/meet-the-team/ Oh yeah Loony Lefty (lol) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-20 10:40 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:31 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 10:08 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 10:00 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 8:34 AM Brian Kirby - 2017-03-19 7:51 PM Dunno. We've had people coming into the UK from the EU for way longer than 10 years, those are only the more recent accession countries you're talking about. The original members always had the same rights of entry. We also had immigrants from way before the EEC, or the EU existed. Those figures are not time related, they just reflect the present population of the UK. It is just a record of where those living were born. But they didn't have immediate access to our benefit system did they? ;-) ......... To say that EU nationals have immediate access to our benefit system is inaccurate Dave. There are a lot of rather complex articles on the net about this subject but the one below presents the true position in a very readable fashion. http://realmedia.press/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-eea-migrants-and-benefits-in-the-uk/ Veronica True they may have to line the pockets of the legal profession with legal aid first ;-) ......... https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jan/17/big-issue-seller-wins-right-housing-benefit This article is from 2012 Dave. The one I posted deals with the rules as amended in 2014. Veronica You mean they're finally trying to pull up the benefit drawbridge? >:-) ........ Looks to me like there'll be some good earners for the legal profession coming up soon? :D ...... BTW I wonder what kinda bias those Realmedia folk have? ;-)......... http://realmedia.press/real-media/meet-the-team/ Oh yeah Loony Lefty (lol) ...... Whilst opinions often fall to be judged on the source I think facts speak for themselves. I note in the old article about the big issue seller's entitlement to housing benefit the City council decided not to pursue an appeal against the decision. It is arguable that the big issue seller was an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system and therefore lost the right of residence. Shouldn't happen today as the rules were amended in July 2012 to disqualify those who were such a burden from having any right to reside in the UK. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 11:07 AM Shouldn't happen today as the rules were amended in July 2012 to disqualify those who were such a burden from having any right to reside in the UK. Veronica (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... https://www.bigissue.org.uk/news/2014/october/6/setting-record-straight “ROMA GANGS ARE STOPPING BRITISH VENDORS GETTING MAGAZINES” We’ve plenty of magazines and plenty of pitches to go around, this has simply never happened. It’s a big world and we welcome all vendors equally no matter where they’re from. “PEOPLE ONLY SELL THE BIG ISSUE TO GET BENEFITS” We never encourage, condone or provide cover for any illegality or exploitation of benefits, immigration or income tax, and we work with all government and local authorities to meet our commitments. ***Big Issue vendors are only entitled to the same benefits as anyone else in Britain.*** *-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-20 11:24 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 11:07 AM Shouldn't happen today as the rules were amended in July 2012 to disqualify those who were such a burden from having any right to reside in the UK. Veronica (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... https://www.bigissue.org.uk/news/2014/october/6/setting-record-straight “ROMA GANGS ARE STOPPING BRITISH VENDORS GETTING MAGAZINES” We’ve plenty of magazines and plenty of pitches to go around, this has simply never happened. It’s a big world and we welcome all vendors equally no matter where they’re from. “PEOPLE ONLY SELL THE BIG ISSUE TO GET BENEFITS” We never encourage, condone or provide cover for any illegality or exploitation of benefits, immigration or income tax, and we work with all government and local authorities to meet our commitments. ***Big Issue vendors are only entitled to the same benefits as anyone else in Britain.*** *-) ....... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/minimum-earnings-threshold-for-eea-migrants-introduced This link provides further details from an objective source. veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 11:28 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-20 11:24 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-20 11:07 AM Shouldn't happen today as the rules were amended in July 2012 to disqualify those who were such a burden from having any right to reside in the UK. Veronica (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... https://www.bigissue.org.uk/news/2014/october/6/setting-record-straight “ROMA GANGS ARE STOPPING BRITISH VENDORS GETTING MAGAZINES” We’ve plenty of magazines and plenty of pitches to go around, this has simply never happened. It’s a big world and we welcome all vendors equally no matter where they’re from. “PEOPLE ONLY SELL THE BIG ISSUE TO GET BENEFITS” We never encourage, condone or provide cover for any illegality or exploitation of benefits, immigration or income tax, and we work with all government and local authorities to meet our commitments. ***Big Issue vendors are only entitled to the same benefits as anyone else in Britain.*** *-) ....... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/minimum-earnings-threshold-for-eea-migrants-introduced This link provides further details from an objective source. veronica Yeah when it works in practice I'll believe it *-) ........Apparently "The Big Issue" don't see it as a problem, neither do the sellers as all the ones I've heard speak recently, have a Eastern European accent ;-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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