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derek pringle

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derek pringle - 2017-03-18 8:48 AMHi, with all the ti-ing and fro-ing about Scotlands Independence, I wonder why they just don't declare a state of UDI, is there anything to stop them ?cheersderek

Yup.....I think so......................................................?

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derek pringle - 2017-03-18 8:48 AM

 

Hi,

with all the ti-ing and fro-ing about Scotlands Independence, I wonder why they just don't declare a state of UDI, is there anything to stop them ?

 

cheers

derek

 

It's an option Derek, but simply declaring it wouldn't go down well up here. But what she could do is call an election on a manifesto promise to declare UDI if pro-independence parties (ie SNP and Greens) are re-elected with a clear majority.

There must be some countries which gained independence by means of a referendum, but I can't think of one at the moment.

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candapack - 2017-03-18 12:53 PM

 

derek pringle - 2017-03-18 8:48 AM

 

Hi,

with all the ti-ing and fro-ing about Scotlands Independence, I wonder why they just don't declare a state of UDI, is there anything to stop them ?

 

cheers

derek

 

It's an option Derek, but simply declaring it wouldn't go down well up here. But what she could do is call an election on a manifesto promise to declare UDI if pro-independence parties (ie SNP and Greens) are re-elected with a clear majority.

There must be some countries which gained independence by means of a referendum, but I can't think of one at the moment.

 

She won't do it. When Ian Smith did it in the 60's he had the backing of virtually all the white Rhodesians and support from South Africa. Sturgeon has nothing. I also doubt she will call an election as it is highly likely she would lose some seats, and be worse of than now, especially if the sole reason was to get a mandate for a Referendum.

 

She will fall back on her usal ploy of bitching and moaning in the hope that she will get the Scots riled up enough to back her, as and when she does call one. But as it seems that this may not be until 2021 I think she is on a hiding to nothing.

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Dave225 - 2017-03-18 1:14 PM

 

candapack - 2017-03-18 12:53 PM

 

derek pringle - 2017-03-18 8:48 AM

 

Hi,

with all the ti-ing and fro-ing about Scotlands Independence, I wonder why they just don't declare a state of UDI, is there anything to stop them ?

 

cheers

derek

 

It's an option Derek, but simply declaring it wouldn't go down well up here. But what she could do is call an election on a manifesto promise to declare UDI if pro-independence parties (ie SNP and Greens) are re-elected with a clear majority.

There must be some countries which gained independence by means of a referendum, but I can't think of one at the moment.

 

She won't do it. When Ian Smith did it in the 60's he had the backing of virtually all the white Rhodesians and support from South Africa. Sturgeon has nothing. I also doubt she will call an election as it is highly likely she would lose some seats, and be worse of than now, especially if the sole reason was to get a mandate for a Referendum.

 

She will fall back on her usal ploy of bitching and moaning in the hope that she will get the Scots riled up enough to back her, as and when she does call one. But as it seems that this may not be until 2021 I think she is on a hiding to nothing.

 

I don't think she'll do it either. As for getting the Scots riled up, she doesn't need to do anything, the Tories are doing that on their own.

BTW, she already has a mandate for a referendum.

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candapack - 2017-03-18 12:53 PM

 

derek pringle - 2017-03-18 8:48 AM

 

Hi,

with all the ti-ing and fro-ing about Scotlands Independence, I wonder why they just don't declare a state of UDI, is there anything to stop them ?

 

cheers

derek

 

It's an option Derek, but simply declaring it wouldn't go down well up here. But what she could do is call an election on a manifesto promise to declare UDI if pro-independence parties (ie SNP and Greens) are re-elected with a clear majority.

There must be some countries which gained independence by means of a referendum, but I can't think of one at the moment.

 

Malta in 1964 and Bahrain was successful in gaining independence from UK in 1970. Quite a few countries held referendums on independence from a variety of others, but not all wanted it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_referendum

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candapack - 2017-03-18 5:17 PM

 

Dave225 - 2017-03-18 1:14 PM

 

candapack - 2017-03-18 12:53 PM

 

derek pringle - 2017-03-18 8:48 AM

 

Hi,

with all the ti-ing and fro-ing about Scotlands Independence, I wonder why they just don't declare a state of UDI, is there anything to stop them ?

 

cheers

derek

 

It's an option Derek, but simply declaring it wouldn't go down well up here. But what she could do is call an election on a manifesto promise to declare UDI if pro-independence parties (ie SNP and Greens) are re-elected with a clear majority.

There must be some countries which gained independence by means of a referendum, but I can't think of one at the moment.

 

She won't do it. When Ian Smith did it in the 60's he had the backing of virtually all the white Rhodesians and support from South Africa. Sturgeon has nothing. I also doubt she will call an election as it is highly likely she would lose some seats, and be worse of than now, especially if the sole reason was to get a mandate for a Referendum.

 

She will fall back on her usal ploy of bitching and moaning in the hope that she will get the Scots riled up enough to back her, as and when she does call one. But as it seems that this may not be until 2021 I think she is on a hiding to nothing.

 

I don't think she'll do it either. As for getting the Scots riled up, she doesn't need to do anything, the Tories are doing that on their own.

BTW, she already has a mandate for a referendum.

 

The only mandate she has is that in the last manifesto a clause was inserted that if we left the EU the SNP would seek another referendum. However, as she now accepts that we are leaving the EU, and that the EU have told herr tyo get lost, the clause seems irrelevant so her sole reason for anything now is the break up of the Uk at any cost. She now states that the 'will of the Scottish parliament' is the mandate , note not the Scottish people anymore, as she knows she has lost them. Plus as the majority of Parties in the parliament appose her, then her idea of a mandate there is pretty tenous. Just because you can get 6 unlelected Greens to support you is not really a mandate. SAhe now states her definite timetable is negotiable, in other words I know I am not getting it when I want so let me try to get anything.

 

I have just listened to one of her MSP's being asked how an independent Scotland would cope with WTO tariffs when trying to trade with England, and she hadn't a clue. She did not really even know what WTO stood for What a clueless bunch of numpties.

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Dave225 - 2017-03-18 7:11 PM

 

 

I don't think she'll do it either. As for getting the Scots riled up, she doesn't need to do anything, the Tories are doing that on their own.

BTW, she already has a mandate for a referendum.

 

The only mandate she has is that in the last manifesto a clause was inserted that if we left the EU the SNP would seek another referendum. However, as she now accepts that we are leaving the EU, and that the EU have told herr tyo get lost, the clause seems irrelevant so her sole reason for anything now is the break up of the Uk at any cost. She now states that the 'will of the Scottish parliament' is the mandate , note not the Scottish people anymore, as she knows she has lost them. Plus as the majority of Parties in the parliament appose her, then her idea of a mandate there is pretty tenous. Just because you can get 6 unlelected Greens to support you is not really a mandate. SAhe now states her definite timetable is negotiable, in other words I know I am not getting it when I want so let me try to get anything.

 

I have just listened to one of her MSP's being asked how an independent Scotland would cope with WTO tariffs when trying to trade with England, and she hadn't a clue. She did not really even know what WTO stood for What a clueless bunch of numpties.

 

So good, you agree she has a mandate. Now, the EU have not told her to get lost, quite the opposite in fact. The fact that the majority of parties oppose her says rather more about how unpopular they are, in that between them they couldn't get enough seats. BTW, they also have their share of List MSP's, which I suppose is what you mean by unelected.

If you can provide a link to the MSP talking about the WTO I'll have a listen. Remember though that in an independent Scotland, there won't necessarily be an SNP government. The country will be able to elect whatever government it wants, and end up with that government. Unlike now.

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hi,

I really think we are better staying united. I also believe in the case that Independence is not solely down to us leaving the EU. Nicola and her followers want to break away from England whether we are in or out of the EU. They are I believe hoping we get the worse deal possible in our negotiations giving her leverage in a ballot.

cheers

derek

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Is this in the manifesto?

 

Pity the poor average Scotsman though at the mercy of Nicola's dreams of independence at any price. The Institute for Fiscal Studies produced a report last week that all Scots have a balance of payments deficit of £11.1 Billion in 2016-2017 https://www.ifs.org....blications/8218. So with falling oil revenues, where do they say that is coming from?

 

Dave

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candapack - 2017-03-18 8:21 PM

 

Dave225 - 2017-03-18 7:11 PM

 

 

I don't think she'll do it either. As for getting the Scots riled up, she doesn't need to do anything, the Tories are doing that on their own.

BTW, she already has a mandate for a referendum.

 

The only mandate she has is that in the last manifesto a clause was inserted that if we left the EU the SNP would seek another referendum. However, as she now accepts that we are leaving the EU, and that the EU have told herr tyo get lost, the clause seems irrelevant so her sole reason for anything now is the break up of the Uk at any cost. She now states that the 'will of the Scottish parliament' is the mandate , note not the Scottish people anymore, as she knows she has lost them. Plus as the majority of Parties in the parliament appose her, then her idea of a mandate there is pretty tenous. Just because you can get 6 unlelected Greens to support you is not really a mandate. SAhe now states her definite timetable is negotiable, in other words I know I am not getting it when I want so let me try to get anything.

 

I have just listened to one of her MSP's being asked how an independent Scotland would cope with WTO tariffs when trying to trade with England, and she hadn't a clue. She did not really even know what WTO stood for What a clueless bunch of numpties.

 

So good, you agree she has a mandate. Now, the EU have not told her to get lost, quite the opposite in fact. The fact that the majority of parties oppose her says rather more about how unpopular they are, in that between them they couldn't get enough seats. BTW, they also have their share of List MSP's, which I suppose is what you mean by unelected.

If you can provide a link to the MSP talking about the WTO I'll have a listen. Remember though that in an independent Scotland, there won't necessarily be an SNP government. The country will be able to elect whatever government it wants, and end up with that government. Unlike now.

 

 

The mandate in the manifesto stated she would seek a Referendum, not actually call one. It was a 'hope' not a commitment. By the way maybe you shoudl count the MSP numbers as the SNP are in a minority, so actually the oppossition do have the majority, albeit only 1, although the Greens have dropped all their own commitments to side with her. They might as well swop banners. The MSP was on Channel 4 News being 'interviewed' by their lead presenter Krishnam Guru Murthy. I am not a fan of Channel 4 News but as we had missed the other ones we swopped to that. He actually did well as he kept asking her the same questions she refused to answer and then panicked as she did not know even what he ewas talking about.

 

I fully agree the opposition Parties ahve only themselves to blame for the rise of the SNP, Too many years of Labour waste while sitting in Holyrood thinking the world will never end.. But I also agree the SNP will run out of steam very soon and then there will be a movement towards an alternative, what that is I do not know at this point in time. What has been shown is that the SNP over the last 10 years have been given lots of powers and have had no idea how to use them. It is unbelievable how dumb some of their people are. Giving bthem more is frankly the daftest idea anyone could have and that leads on to the horror that would befall us if they actually managed their so called independence. Because it would be nothing more than a charade. We leave the Uk and hand everything over to Brussels. That is progess i do not think. As for the economics, well I suspect the rush for the English Border will be enormous and then those that are left can fight amongst themsleves over the scraps. You mauy think I am kidding but from chatter I can assure you it is not, and those leaving have the money. Remember that Scotland's biggest export since the turn of the last century has been people, and that may turn into a flood once again.

 

I do not want it , as do many others, but I will not sacrfice everything I have worked for just so Wee Burnie can sit with a flag infront of her.

 

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Dave225 - 2017-03-19 7:48 PM

 

The mandate in the manifesto stated she would seek a Referendum, not actually call one. It was a 'hope' not a commitment. By the way maybe you shoudl count the MSP numbers as the SNP are in a minority, so actually the oppossition do have the majority, albeit only 1, although the Greens have dropped all their own commitments to side with her. They might as well swop banners. The MSP was on Channel 4 News being 'interviewed' by their lead presenter Krishnam Guru Murthy. I am not a fan of Channel 4 News but as we had missed the other ones we swopped to that. He actually did well as he kept asking her the same questions she refused to answer and then panicked as she did not know even what he ewas talking about.

 

I fully agree the opposition Parties ahve only themselves to blame for the rise of the SNP, Too many years of Labour waste while sitting in Holyrood thinking the world will never end.. But I also agree the SNP will run out of steam very soon and then there will be a movement towards an alternative, what that is I do not know at this point in time. What has been shown is that the SNP over the last 10 years have been given lots of powers and have had no idea how to use them. It is unbelievable how dumb some of their people are. Giving bthem more is frankly the daftest idea anyone could have and that leads on to the horror that would befall us if they actually managed their so called independence. Because it would be nothing more than a charade. We leave the Uk and hand everything over to Brussels. That is progess i do not think. As for the economics, well I suspect the rush for the English Border will be enormous and then those that are left can fight amongst themsleves over the scraps. You mauy think I am kidding but from chatter I can assure you it is not, and those leaving have the money. Remember that Scotland's biggest export since the turn of the last century has been people, and that may turn into a flood once again.

 

I do not want it , as do many others, but I will not sacrfice everything I have worked for just so Wee Burnie can sit with a flag infront of her.

 

Hi. I'll start with the Channel 4 interview, it was Eilidh Whiteford. Agreed, it wasn't great but then again, her remit is Work and Pensions. It would be nice if every MP knew a lot about everything, but I expect you'll find a lot in every party with limited knowledge on even quite important issues. Before going into politics, she gained a first in English and Scottis Literature, and became a lecturer in Scottish Literature. So she's clearly not a numpty.

Now, you're surely not saying there is a difference between seeking and calling a referendum. I doubt if many people would be confused by that.

I know a lot of people think like you that the SNP have done a poor job so far, and there MSP's are of poor quality, but equally there are a lot like me who think the opposite. It is unlikely we will find common ground. Similarly, you see being in the EU as handing over power, I do not. I see it as working together with willing partners.

Economics is an interesting one. The fact is that on any issue, each side can wheel out dozens of economists to support their particular view, it's way beyond me so like most people (who bother to engage), I go with the ones that I like the sound of.

Regards,

 

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