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Any RemOAners out there wish to comment?.......


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Who knows what any of them really think. Boris Johnson wrote two different columns for the Telegraph one saying he was backing remain and one backing leave. He only decided to back leave at the last minute as he thought it would be the best career move and then proceeded to go off and lie to the nation which unfortunately 52% of them fell for.

 

Who knows what any of them are really thinking.

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-31 11:37 AM

 

Who knows what any of them really think. Boris Johnson wrote two different columns for the Telegraph one saying he was backing remain and one backing leave. He only decided to back leave at the last minute as he thought it would be the best career move and then proceeded to go off and lie to the nation which unfortunately 52% of them fell for.

 

Who knows what any of them are really thinking.

Being an inveterate pedant, I'm going to quarrel with the last bit! :-D

 

Only 37% (approx. 17,400,000) of the electorate voted leave. 35% (approx. 16,100,000) voted remain. 28% (approx. 13,000,000) didn't vote. The electorate is approximately 46,500,000. The population is approximately 65,500,000, so approximately 19,000,000 of the population are not registered to vote.

 

So, if we're talking about "the nation", only 25%, and not 52%, voted leave.

 

I only mention this because one of our main proponents of leave had previously complained he was too young, in 1973, to vote in the previous referendum, so his voice wasn't heard. Yet, now he's in that 25%, he is jubilant about inflicting on the remaining 75% the exact same fate he was earlier unhappy about! :-D Such sensitivity! Such wasted experience! So democratic!

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Brian Kirby - 2017-03-31 1:22 PM

 

 

I only mention this because one of our main proponents of leave had previously complained he was too young, in 1973, to vote in the previous referendum, so his voice wasn't heard. Yet, now he's in that 25%, he is jubilant about inflicting on the remaining 75% the exact same fate he was earlier unhappy about! :-D Such sensitivity! Such wasted experience! So democratic!

 

Its called payback >:-) ........

 

 

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We live in a democracy, which means that a majority vote in any decision wins. Unfortunately we do not have a minimum threshold rule although other countries such as Australia make it a criminal offence not to vote, which may be a way to avoid all the discussion regarding percentages.

 

At the moment we elect governments with a minority of the electorate supposrting them and we all see the havoc Unions play with strikes based on very low turnouts. That is the sytem we have approved until it is changed so arguing whether a vote is legitimate or not is poimtless. I suspect the 'don't knows' or the non voters could always reverse any decision we have made, but it is what we have, so we must support it.

 

A good example is our glorious Scottish Government demanding another independence referendum based solesly on a vote in Holyrood where the majority of political parties opposed it, but was carried by the votes of unelected Greens who ignored their own manifesto. This was also despite the majority of Scottish people stating they do not want another referendum. But it shows anyone can twist the numbers to suit their ambitions.

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If it turns out that David Cameron doesn't believe in half of what he said, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.

 

I've always imagined that he woke up every morning

 

and asked his SPIN / PR advisers " what shall I say today "

 

( plus " should I wear my high viz jacket and hard hat while I'm saying it " )

 

 

;-)

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Vote age should have been 16+ really seeing as its the young that will have to deal with our mess but it wasnt. I guess it wont be long though of course before they take over the reigns and vote us straight back in again. After all its what they wanted, massively.
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Barryd999 - 2017-03-31 7:00 PM

 

Vote age should have been 16+ really seeing as its the young that will have to deal with our mess but it wasnt. I guess it wont be long though of course before they take over the reigns and vote us straight back in again. After all its what they wanted, massively.

 

They also prolly wanna legalise certain drugs , ban homework and get Teletubbies on more but it dont make it right ... Experience of life is whats required Barry

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Dave225 - 2017-03-31 1:54 PM

 

We live in a democracy, which means that a majority vote in any decision wins. .................

Indeed, and you will note I did not argue otherwise.

 

At the moment we elect governments with a minority of the electorate supposrting them and we all see the havoc Unions play with strikes based on very low turnouts. That is the sytem we have approved until it is changed so arguing whether a vote is legitimate or not is poimtless. I suspect the 'don't knows' or the non voters could always reverse any decision we have made, but it is what we have, so we must support it.

But we do not elect governments, we elect MPs, and the party with the greatest number of MPs forms a government, with its leader (elected only by members of that party) as Prime Minister, who then appoints his/her cabinet from that parties MPs.

 

T'was not so with the referendum, where a minority is now dictating to a majority, because of the way the question was framed, and because no-one had the foresight to cater for the situation where a narrow majority, theoretically even of one, could result.

 

The referendum bears no similarity to an election, where a governing party can be replaced at the next election if the electorate so chooses, and must hold new elections within 5 years. The only similarity is that both require the electorate to vote.

 

So, should we now elect governments on the basis that once elected they remain in power indefinitely? And if that were proposed, would you be content with the present electoral system as the way of electing such a government?

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Barry you really do live in lala land.....the idea of lowering the voting age to 16 has been experimented with in other countries with little if any success.  However as an experiment I would look to a gradual reduction in the age.....say to 17 yrs of age and over two general elections to allow an estimation of the take up and the impact their votes would make on the results.  After all whilst there are undoubtedly some who would treat the opportunity with the seriousness it deserves others will undoubtedly either not bother or vote MRLP just to be rebellious.  So a double election analysis and then consider if it is right to offer the opportunity to 16 yr olds.

As for "it wont be long though of course before they take over the reigns and vote us straight back in again. After all its what they wanted, massively.

I maintain, yes we have been there/here before but you persist in delivering their 'voice'....that 'remoaning' whine that shows an inability to accept democracy unless it suits you and your ilk, that  the younger generation couldn't have wanted it that badly because the turnout of those of the younger generation registered to vote 'didn't vote'....'couldn't be bothered'.......were not interested until Oh my goodness look what's happened I better start moaning about how it is 'unfair'..'boohoo'......"you oldies stole my future"......whinge, whinge moan, moan.  Get over it.....the result is where we are now and a united front is going to serve the country so much better than all the public demonstrations of 'split' allegiances unless of course the aim of the remain camp is to assist in the downfall of the UK just to make a petulant point.

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Brian Kirby - 2017-03-31 8:11 PM

 

Dave225 - 2017-03-31 1:54 PM

 

We live in a democracy, which means that a majority vote in any decision wins. .................

Indeed, and you will note I did not argue otherwise.

 

At the moment we elect governments with a minority of the electorate supposrting them and we all see the havoc Unions play with strikes based on very low turnouts. That is the sytem we have approved until it is changed so arguing whether a vote is legitimate or not is poimtless. I suspect the 'don't knows' or the non voters could always reverse any decision we have made, but it is what we have, so we must support it.

But we do not elect governments, we elect MPs, and the party with the greatest number of MPs forms a government, with its leader (elected only by members of that party) as Prime Minister, who then appoints his/her cabinet from that parties MPs.

 

T'was not so with the referendum, where a minority is now dictating to a majority, because of the way the question was framed, and because no-one had the foresight to cater for the situation where a narrow majority, theoretically even of one, could result.

 

The referendum bears no similarity to an election, where a governing party can be replaced at the next election if the electorate so chooses, and must hold new elections within 5 years. The only similarity is that both require the electorate to vote.

 

So, should we now elect governments on the basis that once elected they remain in power indefinitely? And if that were proposed, would you be content with the present electoral system as the way of electing such a government?

 

 

As far as electing governments you re splitting hairs. Our system is well known and has been that way for many years.

 

Similarly with the Referendum. The question was agreed by all Parties prior to the actual event and it was also agreed the result was to be definittive, although not legaly binding. However since then the majority of MP;s have approved Brexit being intitated, so trying to make iut it is aminority decision id diengenous. One could ask what would be the comments from the Remainers if the result had been the opposite, would they have then stated that it was not viable??? I seriously doubt it.

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RogerC - 2017-03-31 8:20 PMBarry you really do live in lala land.....the idea of lowering the voting age to 16 has been experimented with in other countries with little if any success.  However as an experiment I would look to a gradual reduction in the age.....say to 17 yrs of age and over two general elections to allow an estimation of the take up and the impact their votes would make on the results.  After all whilst there are undoubtedly some who would treat the opportunity with the seriousness it deserves others will undoubtedly either not bother or vote MRLP just to be rebellious.  So a double election analysis and then consider if it is right to offer the opportunity to 16 yr olds.

As for "it wont be long though of course before they take over the reigns and vote us straight back in again. After all its what they wanted, massively.

I maintain, yes we have been there/here before but you persist in delivering their 'voice'....that 'remoaning' whine that shows an inability to accept democracy unless it suits you and your ilk, that  the younger generation couldn't have wanted it that badly because the turnout of those of the younger generation registered to vote 'didn't vote'....'couldn't be bothered'.......were not interested until Oh my goodness look what's happened I better start moaning about how it is 'unfair'..'boohoo'......"you oldies stole my future"......whinge, whinge moan, moan.  Get over it.....the result is where we are now and a united front is going to serve the country so much better than all the public demonstrations of 'split' allegiances unless of course the aim of the remain camp is to assist in the downfall of the UK just to make a petulant point.

What a load of complete tosh. I seem to remember the Scottish independence age being 16. Yes we have gone around in circles and Ive explained several times why myself and many others believe there was nothing democratic about the entire process, I am not doing it again. Carry on with your petty insults about remoaning and whining if you like. You might call it that but others might call it airing a democratic right and view. I think its highly likely indeed that IF Brexit goes ahead and if its as grim as many expect it to be that we will indeed end up back in and Ill tell you one thing, the youth may have been too busy at Glastonbury last time to bother but they wont make the same mistake twice and five or ten years from now all those who couldnt vote will be able to next time. Thats Democracy for you! Its a long way from the finish line, The EU has said we can revoke article 50 on our own if we wish and that we will be welcome back anytime if we do leave. And finally we have the Brexiteer comment at the end of your spiel which is being rolled out more and more now about how the Remainers are talking down Brexit as some kind of prerequisite of being able to blame us when it all goes tits up. That is so funny. :-D Just because we had one referendum does not mean it is not the democratic right of every citizen to air their view and campaign to change opinion and the shape of Brexit or if it looks as bad as I think it will be work to have it stopped. I suspect we could just sit here and do nothing though and that would happen eventually anyway either before two years or pretty soon in the near future.
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Barryd999 - 2017-03-31 10:57 PM

That is so funny. :-D Just because we had one referendum does not mean it is not the democratic right of every citizen to air their view and campaign to change opinion and the shape of Brexit or if it looks as bad as I think it will be work to have it stopped. I suspect we could just sit here and do nothing though and that would happen eventually anyway either before two years or pretty soon in the near future.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4370008/Exports-boom-UK-growth-outpaces-rest-G7.html

 

So this is bad is it Barry? (lol) ...........

 

 

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Dave225 - 2017-03-31 8:59 PM........................As far as electing governments you re splitting hairs. Our system is well known and has been that way for many years.

I disagree. In an election we elect MPs. The leader of the party with the most MPs forms a government. If we don't like them we can get rid of them after a maximum of 5 years. This decision was different, in that is not reversible for at least a generation, probably longer. Would you elect governments on that basis with our present electoral system? There is no similarity with a election, saving that we voted.

 

................One could ask what would be the comments from the Remainers if the result had been the opposite, would they have then stated that it was not viable??? I seriously doubt it.

Wrong question! The appropriate question is "what would be the comments from the Brexiteers if the result had been the opposite, would they have then stated that it was democratic and irreversible" as Brexiteers now claim? To that we know the answer from before the vote, as the Brexiteers declared their intention to come back for more referendums if they lost by a narrow margin. So, where's your beef?

 

Your doubts are for you, are hypothetical, and are based on your mindset. You could be right, you could be wrong. But, if you'll forgive me, so what, either way?

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pelmetman - 2017-04-01 8:19 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-31 10:57 PM

That is so funny. :-D Just because we had one referendum does not mean it is not the democratic right of every citizen to air their view and campaign to change opinion and the shape of Brexit or if it looks as bad as I think it will be work to have it stopped. I suspect we could just sit here and do nothing though and that would happen eventually anyway either before two years or pretty soon in the near future.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4370008/Exports-boom-UK-growth-outpaces-rest-G7.html

 

So this is bad is it Barry? (lol) ...........

 

No Dave, it is good. However, as the article says, it is the product of a low pound. The low pound is the product of the Brexit vote, because the international view is that the UK will be worse off after we actually leave the EU. The downside is that with the falling pound the price of everything we import is rising, which will push up inflation. That will stoke demands for pay rises, and those will either result in industrial disruption or wage inflation, leading to further cost rises. We know this, because we've been there before.

 

You are convinced the EU needs the UK more than vice versa, because they sell so much to us. With those goods becoming more costly, that idea begins to lose some of its gloss.

 

Economies don't change over a few months, they change over years. The impact of Brexit, assuming it actually takes place as you expect, won't be measurable for at least a decade. That'll be about the time you're enjoying your pension.

 

Careful what you wish for, that pension will be very largely dependent on what the next government but two decides it can afford to pay you out of its then tax revenues! You aren't looking far enough ahead. This will be a looonnng game! :-)

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pelmetman - 2017-04-01 8:19 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-31 10:57 PM

That is so funny. :-D Just because we had one referendum does not mean it is not the democratic right of every citizen to air their view and campaign to change opinion and the shape of Brexit or if it looks as bad as I think it will be work to have it stopped. I suspect we could just sit here and do nothing though and that would happen eventually anyway either before two years or pretty soon in the near future.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4370008/Exports-boom-UK-growth-outpaces-rest-G7.html

 

So this is bad is it Barry? (lol) ...........

 

 

Well Brian as usual sums it up better than I ever could but enjoy the honeymoon period or whats left of it. There is only so long the Fail and the fake optimists of Brexit can big it up, sooner or later when it all comes crashing down half the country will hold you accountable, maybe we will then see a happy clappy loony left, wet, elitist, chattering classes, luvvies revolution huh?

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Brian Kirby - 2017-04-01 11:55 AM

 

No Dave, it is good. However, as the article says, it is the product of a low pound. The low pound is the product of the Brexit vote, because the international view is that the UK will be worse off after we actually leave the EU. The downside is that with the falling pound the price of everything we import is rising, which will push up inflation. That will stoke demands for pay rises, and those will either result in industrial disruption or wage inflation, leading to further cost rises. We know this, because we've been there before.

 

 

The low pound is it?.........Remind me Brian when the pound almost reached parity with euro back 2008 did the sky fall in??? ;-) ........Yes cost of some raw materials are rising.......is oil anywhere near $100 a barrel yet??? >:-) ........

 

So why has the UK now managed to become the fastest growing economy in the G7 then Brian??.......

 

Especially with all you doom and gloom merchants peddling such dire predictions? (lol) .........

 

Excuses pleases? >:-) ........

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-01 12:15 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-01 8:19 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-31 10:57 PM

That is so funny. :-D Just because we had one referendum does not mean it is not the democratic right of every citizen to air their view and campaign to change opinion and the shape of Brexit or if it looks as bad as I think it will be work to have it stopped. I suspect we could just sit here and do nothing though and that would happen eventually anyway either before two years or pretty soon in the near future.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4370008/Exports-boom-UK-growth-outpaces-rest-G7.html

 

So this is bad is it Barry? (lol) ...........

 

 

Well Brian as usual sums it up better than I ever could but enjoy the honeymoon period or whats left of it. There is only so long the Fail and the fake optimists of Brexit can big it up, sooner or later when it all comes crashing down half the country will hold you accountable, maybe we will then see a happy clappy loony left, wet, elitist, chattering classes, luvvies revolution huh?

 

Its been a hell of a honeymoon so far........much better than even I thought it would be........considering the Brexit bride has discovered her Remoaner partner is impotent and fires blanks (lol) .......

 

 

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It is interesting how the 'remoaners' always always have their crystal ball set on 'We're Doomed' setting and telling us how much the Leave (or Brexiteers as they pathetically call those who don't agree with their side) voters have got it all wrong.

So your lovey dovey...let's all have a voice idea want's to allow those yet to have any 'life experience' or real idea of much other than rap or 'text spk' to have a vote which has the potential to seriously impact on the running of the country?

Remember all those luvvies, lets help everyone brigade saying how 'magnificent' Merkel was to open Germany's borders.....look a bit further down the line and even Merkel says she got it wrong.

look at all the doom and gloom prophesies by the 'money experts'.......look a bit further on and see how many have either retracted or had the guts to admit they got it wrong.

As if the constant whining wasn't enough......Remoaners have those 'bastions' of ultra 'correct'......sorry 'exemplary liars' fighting their case.....B'liar and Clegg......what a pair.  I'd rather have Clegg off Last of the Summer Wine on my side...at least he is funny whereas yours is a lying manipulative self serving opportunist. 

Doom and gloom merchants........God help us, save us from them, their fellow loons and uber lefties.... if it wasn't so sad it would be laughable.

Lastly....it is interesting all this condemnation of the 'leave' voters but strangely the remoan lot is extremely silent on the topic of the 'soothsayers' getting it so very wrong!!!  Pathetic....just pathetic.
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pelmetman - 2017-04-01 3:02 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-04-01 11:55 AM

 

No Dave, it is good. However, as the article says, it is the product of a low pound. The low pound is the product of the Brexit vote, because the international view is that the UK will be worse off after we actually leave the EU. The downside is that with the falling pound the price of everything we import is rising, which will push up inflation. That will stoke demands for pay rises, and those will either result in industrial disruption or wage inflation, leading to further cost rises. We know this, because we've been there before.

 

 

The low pound is it?.........Remind me Brian when the pound almost reached parity with euro back 2008 did the sky fall in??? ;-) ........Yes cost of some raw materials are rising.......is oil anywhere near $100 a barrel yet??? >:-) ........

 

So why has the UK now managed to become the fastest growing economy in the G7 then Brian??.......

 

Especially with all you doom and gloom merchants peddling such dire predictions? (lol) .........

 

Excuses pleases? >:-) ........

 

I thought you'd read the article you linked to! It attributes (along with most other commentary) the current rise in exports to the low pound. It's not me saying so, it is the DM. Did you miss that bit?

 

As to oil, the reason it's presently low is that the rest of the world's economies are still relatively stagnant following the 2008 crash. But, the price of oil in US Dollars has nothing to do with the EU, or Brexit, and seems irrelevant to whether the UK economy, or any other, is doing better or worse at the present oil price. That, it seem to me, is more likely to be as the DM says, the low value of Sterling making our exports cheaper.

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pelmetman - 2017-04-01 3:02 PM

 

 

 

So why has the UK now managed to become the fastest growing economy in the G7 then

 

 

Thats an easy one - by ignoring borrowing and counting house price inflation as 'Growth''

The only statistic that really matters is the one they don't like to talk about - the Current Account Deficit.

 

 

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John52 - 2017-04-01 7:35 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-01 3:02 PM

 

 

 

So why has the UK now managed to become the fastest growing economy in the G7 then

 

 

Thats an easy one - by ignoring borrowing and counting house price inflation as 'Growth''

The only statistic that really matters is the one they don't like to talk about - the Current Account Deficit.

 

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/6493-uk-current-account-deficit-at-lowest-in-years

 

Oh dear :D ........It must be the Brexit affect ;-) ........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2017-04-01 7:42 PM

 

John52 - 2017-04-01 7:35 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-01 3:02 PM

 

 

 

So why has the UK now managed to become the fastest growing economy in the G7 then

 

 

Thats an easy one - by ignoring borrowing and counting house price inflation as 'Growth''

The only statistic that really matters is the one they don't like to talk about - the Current Account Deficit.

 

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/6493-uk-current-account-deficit-at-lowest-in-years

 

Oh dear :D ........It must be the Brexit affect ;-) ........

 

 

So I missed the latest figures. This time we only imported £12.1 billion more than we exported. You think thats Good *-)

OK try another,

' household savings ratio in [the fourth quarter of] 2016 down to its lowest level since comparable records began in 1963' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39453844

People intoxicated by their house price borrowing to spend on imported goods?

Or borrowing to pay the rent?

Its all 'Growth' in the economy *-)

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Guest pelmetman
John52 - 2017-04-01 8:36 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-01 7:42 PM

 

John52 - 2017-04-01 7:35 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-01 3:02 PM

 

 

 

So why has the UK now managed to become the fastest growing economy in the G7 then

 

 

Thats an easy one - by ignoring borrowing and counting house price inflation as 'Growth''

The only statistic that really matters is the one they don't like to talk about - the Current Account Deficit.

 

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/6493-uk-current-account-deficit-at-lowest-in-years

 

Oh dear :D ........It must be the Brexit affect ;-) ........

 

 

So I missed the latest figures. This time we only imported £12.1 billion more than we exported. You think thats Good *-)

OK try another,

' household savings ratio in [the fourth quarter of] 2016 down to its lowest level since comparable records began in 1963' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39453844

People intoxicated by their house price borrowing to spend on imported goods?

Or borrowing to pay the rent?

Its all 'Growth' in the economy *-)

 

Has our current account deficit not reduced? ;-) ..........

 

You doom and gloom merchants must be really annoyed that the economy has prospered since we voted out >:-) ...........

 

 

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