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Assuring the rights to stay for those already in - why?


StuartO

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Am I missing something with the urgency which is seen, apparently by both side, of settling the rights to stay of EU Citizens already in UK (and vice versa for Brits abroad)?

 

If we want EU workers in UK, as apparently we will, then we'll let them in anyway, won't we?  And if Spain wants the income from retired Brits they continue to let them in?  Post-Brexit won't all of us want to exclude only those who are parasites or criminals, won't they - and what's wrong with that?  What's the problem? Can Spain not decide whether to let Brits (as no-longer EU Citizens) stay or is there some EU rule that stops them doing so?

 

Why does this need to be negotiated at all?  Am I missing something?

 

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Guest pelmetman

Spain doesn't seem to have any issues with Russians so why should they with Brits ;-) .........

 

As for Gib I reckon we should offer to give that back to Spain......when they give back Ceuta and Melilla >:-) .....

 

 

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I know a lot of Ex Pats who are desperate to know what their situation will be post Brexit. They are in limbo, many are struggling as it is with the crash in exchange rate but pension freezes, health care and the right to stay are big issues for them all of which are in question. I imagine for EU citizens here they feel the same but there is the added element in the UK that many now feel unwelcome and dont want to stay in a country they feel doesnt want them or in some cases they now feel unsafe or have been abused.

 

Of course it needs sorting quickly. TM had a perfect chance to make the first move and set a great tone for the negotiations by guaranteeing the position of EU Citizens here first, instead we got thinly veiled threats of withholding international security information and that odious Tit Howard threatening a punch up (from the safety of his office) over Gib).

 

Russians may be running around Spain all year long but as they are not in Europe or Schengen they are doing so illegally. Three months is the max you can stay in a Schengen country which is the max we will be allowed to stay in the future if we are out and that includes motorhomers.

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PM

 

Russians may be running around Spain all year long but as they are not in Europe or Schengen they are doing so illegally. Three months is the max you can stay in a Schengen country which is the max we will be allowed to stay in the future if we are out and that includes motorhomers.

 

Yep the Spanish are going to round us all up and chuck us out of the country, to stop us spending money there :D ........You really are quite deluded aren't you Barry (lol) .......

 

BTW passed over the French border this morning and it did look like they're building a new border post

 

8-) ..........Maybe you're right Barry they're trying to keep me out of Spain >:-) .......

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PM

 

Of course it needs sorting quickly. TM had a perfect chance to make the first move and set a great tone for the negotiations by guaranteeing the position of EU Citizens here first, instead we got thinly veiled threats of withholding international security information and that odious Tit Howard threatening a punch up (from the safety of his office) over Gib).

 

 

Of course all those MEP's are anxious that negotiations are carried out amicably (lol) ..........

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4381778/MEPs-warn-make-sure-UK-does-NOT-good-Brexit-deal.html

 

He's doing his bit to win us over isn't he? >:-) ........

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PMI know a lot of Ex Pats who are desperate to know what their situation will be post Brexit. They are in limbo, many are struggling as it is with the crash in exchange rate but pension freezes, health care and the right to stay are big issues for them all of which are in question. I imagine for EU citizens here they feel the same but there is the added element in the UK that many now feel unwelcome and dont want to stay in a country they feel doesnt want them or in some cases they now feel unsafe or have been abused.Of course it needs sorting quickly.....

 

Why of course?  I appreciate that people living on the cheap in Spain might be feeling insecure but they chose to go there and if things start to turn out unfavourably they can always come back as long as they are still Brits.  They might have spent their money or lost value in their property investment but is that our problem?

 

Most of them come back anyway don't they, eventually?  Surely Spain doesn't guarantee them top quality care for the elderly and infirm does it?  Don't most of them have at the back of their mind that they can come back to UK and get looked after, including getting housing if they can't afford to buy something?

 

So why should poor old struggling Spain be stuck with the expatriate Brits once they can no longer afford to pay their way in Spain?  And why should Britain be stuck with looking after foreigners when they get old or inform just because they chose to come here to earn more than they could at home when they were young and fit?

 

People who genuinely want to settle in a new Country should apply for citizenship and meet the entry criteria, shouldn't they?

 

Our Government (and our taxpayers) can't be expected to feathernest everyone, surely?

 

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StuartO - 2017-04-05 1:19 PM

 

Am I missing something with the urgency which is seen, apparently by both side, of settling the rights to stay of EU Citizens already in UK (and vice versa for Brits abroad)?

 

If we want EU workers in UK, as apparently we will, then we'll let them in anyway, won't we?

Not necessarily. Logic alone should be enough to tell anyone we simply cannot maintain vital services without EU/non-EU workers, but we don't do logic very well.

 

 

And if Spain wants the income from retired Brits they continue to let them in?

Expat Brits or "snowbirds"?

 

Expats living permanently there will already be signed into the Spanish system re. healthcare etc, or should be. Snowbirds will have their wings well and truly clipped. No more swanning around for four or five months on the cheap sneaking back into UK for free healthcare. The ruling is already in place so i expect that will eventually be strictly enforced.

 

Post-Brexit won't all of us want to exclude only those who are parasites or criminals, won't they - and what's wrong with that? What's the problem?

Nothing. Criminality isn't a one way street though many British seem to think it is. Whilst criminals from EU and non-EU countries escape to try and hide here, UK criminals escape justice here to go and hide in Spain or Holland, the two top countries favoured by Brit criminals as both are easy to get by in without any language difficulties.

 

There was a very good series on BBC1 recently called "Fugitives" about the work of Interpol and the NCA with international arrest warrants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b08jqbrr?suggid=b08jqbrr

 

Can Spain not decide whether to let Brits (as no-longer EU Citizens) stay or is there some EU rule that stops them doing so?

They may have to consider changing citizenship if the remaining EU states as a whole do not reach an agreement with UK.....and that agreement would have to be reciprocal which Brexiters won't like. Another example of 'you can't have it all your own way' because you aren't going to get that.

 

Why does this need to be negotiated at all? Am I missing something?

Apart from the usual cases currently in a state of limbo there are a number of obscure examples such as the following;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/man-told-to-take-citizenship-test-despite-living-entire-life-in-uk

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/dutchwoman-resident-in-uk-for-30-years-may-have-to-leave-after-brexit

 

 

 

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StuartO - 2017-04-05 4:54 PM

 

[Why of course? I appreciate that people living on the cheap in Spain might be feeling insecure but they chose to go there and if things start to turn out unfavourably they can always come back as long as they are still Brits. They might have spent their money or lost value in their property investment but is that our problem?

 

Most of them come back anyway don't they, eventually? Surely Spain doesn't guarantee them top quality care for the elderly and infirm does it? Don't most of them have at the back of their mind that they can come back to UK and get looked after, including getting housing if they can't afford to buy something?

 

So why should poor old struggling Spain be stuck with the expatriate Brits once they can no longer afford to pay their way in Spain? And why should Britain be stuck with looking after foreigners when they get old or inform just because they chose to come here to earn more than they could at home when they were young and fit?

 

People who genuinely want to settle in a new Country should apply for citizenship and meet the entry criteria, shouldn't they?

 

Our Government (and our taxpayers) can't be expected to feathernest everyone, surely?

Expats i've met left UK long back in most cases and never intend to return......but those people were not living in Spain.

 

Spanish hospitals and it's healthcare is noted for it's very high standards. http://www.expatica.com/es/healthcare/Getting-healthcare-in-Spain_101467.html

 

Why should Britain look after British who have flagrantly been flouting the three month rule for years.....or is abuse ok when it's by 'our own'?

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StuartO - 2017-04-05 4:54 PM
Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PMI know a lot of Ex Pats who are desperate to know what their situation will be post Brexit. They are in limbo, many are struggling as it is with the crash in exchange rate but pension freezes, health care and the right to stay are big issues for them all of which are in question. I imagine for EU citizens here they feel the same but there is the added element in the UK that many now feel unwelcome and dont want to stay in a country they feel doesnt want them or in some cases they now feel unsafe or have been abused.Of course it needs sorting quickly.....

 

Why of course?  I appreciate that people living on the cheap in Spain might be feeling insecure but they chose to go there and if things start to turn out unfavourably they can always come back as long as they are still Brits.  They might have spent their money or lost value in their property investment but is that our problem?

 

Most of them come back anyway don't they, eventually?  Surely Spain doesn't guarantee them top quality care for the elderly and infirm does it?  Don't most of them have at the back of their mind that they can come back to UK and get looked after, including getting housing if they can't afford to buy something?

 

So why should poor old struggling Spain be stuck with the expatriate Brits once they can no longer afford to pay their way in Spain?  And why should Britain be stuck with looking after foreigners when they get old or inform just because they chose to come here to earn more than they could at home when they were young and fit?

 

People who genuinely want to settle in a new Country should apply for citizenship and meet the entry criteria, shouldn't they?

 

Our Government (and our taxpayers) can't be expected to feathernest everyone, surely?

Well all the people I know that are worried are in France. I dont know anyone in Spain. Its not as simple as just applying for citizenship either which is not always an easy route and both those here and ours over there are still paying into the UK system or their system back home. There are complications with pension and health care and many may not want to become citizens of a foreign country for various reasons. It wont be so bad for the EU countries if all their citizens come home as most of them here are working so they will be less of a burden but bringing back 1.5 million British Ex Pats might be a different story. Many of them are retired and might not be able to afford housing so you could suddenly have an extra million pensioners all of whom need looking after.Of course it makes sense to get this one out of the way early on. Whats the problem?
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pelmetman - 2017-04-05 4:18 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PM

 

Russians may be running around Spain all year long but as they are not in Europe or Schengen they are doing so illegally. Three months is the max you can stay in a Schengen country which is the max we will be allowed to stay in the future if we are out and that includes motorhomers.

 

Yep the Spanish are going to round us all up and chuck us out of the country, to stop us spending money there :D ........You really are quite deluded aren't you Barry (lol) .......

 

BTW passed over the French border this morning and it did look like they're building a new border post

 

8-) ..........Maybe you're right Barry they're trying to keep me out of Spain >:-) .......

 

 

How many times have we been over this one now? It wont just be down to the Spanish to enforce the Schengen rules. Presumably holiday makers will be welcome as usual but the Schengen rules clearly state. 3 months. Up to you if you want to drive around the EU illegally with no health care, travel insurance and motor insurance. You might get away with it but knowing the Spanish and French rozzers and customs remember who will be able to check when you arrived I wouldnt bank on it.

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 7:08 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-05 4:18 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PM

 

Russians may be running around Spain all year long but as they are not in Europe or Schengen they are doing so illegally. Three months is the max you can stay in a Schengen country which is the max we will be allowed to stay in the future if we are out and that includes motorhomers.

 

Yep the Spanish are going to round us all up and chuck us out of the country, to stop us spending money there :D ........You really are quite deluded aren't you Barry (lol) .......

 

BTW passed over the French border this morning and it did look like they're building a new border post

 

8-) ..........Maybe you're right Barry they're trying to keep me out of Spain >:-) .......

 

 

How many times have we been over this one now? It wont just be down to the Spanish to enforce the Schengen rules. Presumably holiday makers will be welcome as usual but the Schengen rules clearly state. 3 months. Up to you if you want to drive around the EU illegally with no health care, travel insurance and motor insurance. You might get away with it but knowing the Spanish and French rozzers and customs remember who will be able to check when you arrived I wouldnt bank on it.

 

Yeah in your dreams sunshine (lol) ........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2017-04-05 8:04 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 7:08 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-04-05 4:18 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 3:51 PM

 

Russians may be running around Spain all year long but as they are not in Europe or Schengen they are doing so illegally. Three months is the max you can stay in a Schengen country which is the max we will be allowed to stay in the future if we are out and that includes motorhomers.

 

Yep the Spanish are going to round us all up and chuck us out of the country, to stop us spending money there :D ........You really are quite deluded aren't you Barry (lol) .......

 

BTW passed over the French border this morning and it did look like they're building a new border post

 

8-) ..........Maybe you're right Barry they're trying to keep me out of Spain >:-) .......

 

 

How many times have we been over this one now? It wont just be down to the Spanish to enforce the Schengen rules. Presumably holiday makers will be welcome as usual but the Schengen rules clearly state. 3 months. Up to you if you want to drive around the EU illegally with no health care, travel insurance and motor insurance. You might get away with it but knowing the Spanish and French rozzers and customs remember who will be able to check when you arrived I wouldnt bank on it.

 

Yeah in your dreams sunshine (lol) ........

 

 

You misunderstand me Dave. Nobody likes wandering around Europe for months on end more than me but usually in the spring, Summer and Autumn. I like to to it legally though so of course I dont want to see it happen.

 

There are only two ways that it wont. We become part of Schengen and / or accept Free movement of people as part of the deal or that nice man in Belgium manages to get EU Citizenship passports for British citizens who feel robbed of their EU citizenship which we have had since 1993. The first wont appeal to you I am sure and surely if the second one does become available you will refuse yours on principle. You will have to pay for it as well every year I think so I really cant imagine you wanting to do that. Imagine the forum headlines. Dave Pelmet pays for EU Citizenship post Brexit! :D

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 7:04 PM...... Of course it makes sense to get this one out of the way early on. Whats the problem?

 

Simpler to say it doesn't need negotiating as part of Brexit - and each country (or block of countries) makes its own decisions about who can reside there as they arise.

 

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StuartO - 2017-04-05 9:09 PM
Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 7:04 PM...... Of course it makes sense to get this one out of the way early on. Whats the problem?

 

Simpler to say it doesn't need negotiating as part of Brexit - and each country (or block of countries) makes its own decisions about who can reside there as they arise.

How is that simpler? Is it not simpler to negotiate a single deal for our citizens and theirs rather than 27 different deals both ways?Of course its part of Brexit. We are are loosing our EU Citizenship and the citizens of 27 other countries living here have no idea because of Brexit what their situation will be once we leave. What is wrong with both parties agreeing to letting both parties stay? Can you imagine how long it would take to negotiate 27 different arrangements. Thats the whole point of the EU, it makes life easier you see, for everyone over matters such as this.I Dont even know why its such an issue. The Brexiteers tell us they are happy with the immigrants that are settled here as Brexit wasnt all about Immigrants apparently and presumably they dont want ours back or just dont care either way so why not just sort it out, tomorrow?
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Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 9:34 PM
StuartO - 2017-04-05 9:09 PM
Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 7:04 PM...... Of course it makes sense to get this one out of the way early on. Whats the problem?

 

Simpler to say it doesn't need negotiating as part of Brexit - and each country (or block of countries) makes its own decisions about who can reside there as they arise.

How is that simpler? Is it not simpler to negotiate a single deal for our citizens and theirs rather than 27 different deals both ways?Of course its part of Brexit. We are are loosing our EU Citizenship and the citizens of 27 other countries living here have no idea because of Brexit what their situation will be once we leave. What is wrong with both parties agreeing to letting both parties stay? Can you imagine how long it would take to negotiate 27 different arrangements. Thats the whole point of the EU, it makes life easier you see, for everyone over matters such as this.I Dont even know why its such an issue. The Brexiteers tell us they are happy with the immigrants that are settled here as Brexit wasnt all about Immigrants apparently and presumably they dont want ours back or just dont care either way so why not just sort it out, tomorrow?

 

What this boils down to is that you think there some sort of human right to be relieved of uncertainty simply because something is worrying you and I don't.

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 8:28 PM

 

There are only two ways that it wont. We become part of Schengen and / or accept Free movement of people as part of the deal or that nice man in Belgium manages to get EU Citizenship passports for British citizens who feel robbed of their EU citizenship which we have had since 1993. The first wont appeal to you I am sure and surely if the second one does become available you will refuse yours on principle. You will have to pay for it as well every year I think so I really cant imagine you wanting to do that. Imagine the forum headlines. Dave Pelmet pays for EU Citizenship post Brexit! :D

 

I wonder if the 1.3 million illegal migrants that are currently wandering around Europe for months/years are aware of the rules? >:-) ........

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StuartO - 2017-04-06 9:11 AM
Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 9:34 PM
StuartO - 2017-04-05 9:09 PM
Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 7:04 PM...... Of course it makes sense to get this one out of the way early on. Whats the problem?

 

Simpler to say it doesn't need negotiating as part of Brexit - and each country (or block of countries) makes its own decisions about who can reside there as they arise.

How is that simpler? Is it not simpler to negotiate a single deal for our citizens and theirs rather than 27 different deals both ways?Of course its part of Brexit. We are are loosing our EU Citizenship and the citizens of 27 other countries living here have no idea because of Brexit what their situation will be once we leave. What is wrong with both parties agreeing to letting both parties stay? Can you imagine how long it would take to negotiate 27 different arrangements. Thats the whole point of the EU, it makes life easier you see, for everyone over matters such as this.I Dont even know why its such an issue. The Brexiteers tell us they are happy with the immigrants that are settled here as Brexit wasnt all about Immigrants apparently and presumably they dont want ours back or just dont care either way so why not just sort it out, tomorrow?

 

What this boils down to is that you think there some sort of human right to be relieved of uncertainty simply because something is worrying you and I don't.

Thats fair enough. Thankfully (Well hopefully) governments both sides of the channels think like I do, lets hope they get their acts together then and stop using people as Brexit Pawns.
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pelmetman - 2017-04-06 12:10 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-04-05 8:28 PM

 

There are only two ways that it wont. We become part of Schengen and / or accept Free movement of people as part of the deal or that nice man in Belgium manages to get EU Citizenship passports for British citizens who feel robbed of their EU citizenship which we have had since 1993. The first wont appeal to you I am sure and surely if the second one does become available you will refuse yours on principle. You will have to pay for it as well every year I think so I really cant imagine you wanting to do that. Imagine the forum headlines. Dave Pelmet pays for EU Citizenship post Brexit! :D

 

I wonder if the 1.3 million illegal migrants that are currently wandering around Europe for months/years are aware of the rules? >:-) ........

 

Well thats an entirely different matter but you will be adding to that number if you stay in Spain for more than three months after Brexit. (lol) Dave the illegal Migrant!

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Barryd999 - 2017-04-06 12:45 PM...... Thankfully (Well hopefully) governments both sides of the channels think like I do, lets hope they get their acts together then and stop using people as Brexit Pawns.

 

Spoken with the moral conviction of a true socialist; by all means live in hope that both sides will simply agree with you!

 

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Interesting thread. My suspicion is that Stuart started it as a lure, to draw responses from those whose politics he wished to decry. This is a shame, because the issue should not be reduced to the tribalism of party politics. I can't see that it was ever a serious question, because only someone suffering fairly severe autism (I assume Stuart is not so afflicted, but apologise in advance if he is) could fail to understand the concerns of the many people, in UK and elsewhere in Europe, who are finding the basis on which they have made their lives under threat.

 

That threat can easily be removed, and it should be, as quickly as possible. I say that because I can see no advantage to be gained from doing otherwise, I can see potential for tit for tat retaliation should we do otherwise, and because I think it unreasonable to subject one group of people to such avoidable worry and uncertainty, because of a decision made by another group of people in the UK in pursuit of their, and (as they see it) the UK's, interests alone. People are, in effect, being made hostages to a trade deal, a tactic I had thought we rejected at the end of the middle ages.

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Brian Kirby - 2017-04-06 2:38 PMInteresting thread. My suspicion is that Stuart started it as a lure, to draw responses from those whose politics he wished to decry. This is a shame, because the issue should not be reduced to the tribalism of party politics. I can't see that it was ever a serious question, because only someone suffering fairly severe autism (I assume Stuart is not so afflicted, but apologise in advance if he is) could fail to understand the concerns of the many people, in UK and elsewhere in Europe, who are finding the basis on which they have made their lives under threat.That threat can easily be removed, and it should be, as quickly as possible. I say that because I can see no advantage to be gained from doing otherwise, I can see potential for tit for tat retaliation should we do otherwise, and because I think it unreasonable to subject one group of people to such avoidable worry and uncertainty, because of a decision made by another group of people in the UK in pursuit of their, and (as they see it) the UK's, interests alone. People are, in effect, being made hostages to a trade deal, a tactic I had thought we rejected at the end of the middle ages.

 

I suffer from a variety of impediments, so you might be right Brian.

 

It wasn't a wind up at all, it merely occured to me that host countries would want people to stay if they were of value, so where's the problem that needs negotiation so urgently?

 

But I do appreciate that People of Sensitivity for Others might feel for all who are afflicted and want their problems to be solved for them.  Personally I'd leave them to decide for themselves whether to stay or go home and to apply for British Citizenship like everyone else if they want to stay here.

 

And I'd introduce a process for removing British Citizenship for anyone who applies for citizenship of anywhere else.  I can't see any public value in letting some people hedge their bets in that way.

 

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StuartO - 2017-04-06 4:43 PM
Brian Kirby - 2017-04-06 2:38 PMInteresting thread. My suspicion is that Stuart started it as a lure, to draw responses from those whose politics he wished to decry. This is a shame, because the issue should not be reduced to the tribalism of party politics. I can't see that it was ever a serious question, because only someone suffering fairly severe autism (I assume Stuart is not so afflicted, but apologise in advance if he is) could fail to understand the concerns of the many people, in UK and elsewhere in Europe, who are finding the basis on which they have made their lives under threat.That threat can easily be removed, and it should be, as quickly as possible. I say that because I can see no advantage to be gained from doing otherwise, I can see potential for tit for tat retaliation should we do otherwise, and because I think it unreasonable to subject one group of people to such avoidable worry and uncertainty, because of a decision made by another group of people in the UK in pursuit of their, and (as they see it) the UK's, interests alone. People are, in effect, being made hostages to a trade deal, a tactic I had thought we rejected at the end of the middle ages.

 

I suffer from a variety of impediments, so you might be right Brian.

 

It wasn't a wind up at all, it merely occured to me that host countries would want people to stay if they were of value, so where's the problem that needs negotiation so urgently?

 

But I do appreciate that People of Sensitivity for Others might feel for all who are afflicted and want their problems to be solved for them.  Personally I'd leave them to decide for themselves whether to stay or go home and to apply for British Citizenship like everyone else if they want to stay here.

 

And I'd introduce a process for removing British Citizenship for anyone who applies for citizenship of anywhere else.  I can't see any public value in letting some people hedge their bets in that way.

Brian still won't be able to see it as a serious question Stuart even with your explanation , as if you had to justify the original post !
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StuartO - 2017-04-06 4:43 PM...............But I do appreciate that People of Sensitivity for Others might feel for all who are afflicted and want their problems to be solved for them.  Personally I'd leave them to decide for themselves whether to stay or go home and to apply for British Citizenship like everyone else if they want to stay here............

This assumes that they will retain a right to choose where they stay. If they will retain that right, fine. It is the uncertainty over their retention of that right to live in any EU state (specifically, the UK for those from elsewhere within the EU, and elsewhere within the EU for those from UK) that is causing the concern.

 

There is no present guarantee that anyone from the above two groups who has exercised their EU right to live outside their native land will retain the right post Brexit. This is more than merely trying to solve their problems for them (though I see no justification for Brexiteers, who created the problem, to deny its consequences).

 

The UK agreed to grant a right of abode through its membership of the EU, as did the other member states. Now the UK wishes to leave the EU. What happens to that right when we leave is surely a legitimate question? Were we to extinguishing that right for EU migrants to the UK, what would that say about the UK and its attitude to its treaty undertakings? How might that affect future trade negotiations, where it is already clear that free movement of people is on the agenda as a quid pro quo for trade?

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Brian, we join the EU, now we're leaving, primarily in orrder to control our borders.  It is, in my view, nonesense to suggest that by joining the EU we gave any non-British residents of UK anything other than acceptance of their right to stay in UK while our Membership of the EU continues.  It was certainly an open ended right to stay but that's not the same as an unconditional and permanent right to stay.  The EU shrinks as we leave but they will still have 27 countries to choose from.

 

I don't want to frighten them or throw them out automatically without considering an application they might want to stay, but we are leaving the EU in order to choose who is allowed to stay here and I see no reason why our right to choose shouldn't apply to them too.  If they want to retain their current nationality and stay they will find out in due course whether they will still be welcome to stay.

 

If on the other hand they want to become British and to acquire permanent rights of residency, then they should apply for UK Citizenship and they can do that anytime can't they?  Again we choose whether to accept them based on their merits and their value to UK.

 

Our Government may decide differently but that's what I would do.

 

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StuartO - 2017-04-06 6:31 PM

 

Brian, we join the EU, now we're leaving, primarily in order to control our borders.

Perhaps you'd better let May know about that then because as Home Secretary she scrapped the UK Border Agency and slashed thousands of jobs and funding from HMRC.

 

 

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