10 year old Vans

[mark569]

Hi all,

I've been shopping around on the internet for an Adria Twin or possibly an Adria compact and

I've noticed that almost all of the vans up for sale at the moment seem to be 2007 and sometimes 2008.

Generally speaking that's about right for my budget but all these vans are Fiat Ducato based and wasn't this the very time when 'Juddergate' was occurring?

Should I be avoiding 07/08 Ducatos because of clutch/reverse gear judder problems?

Information elsewhere on the forum suggests the gearbox problem was sorted out by Fiat in late 2008,

but I just can't find 09/10/11 vehicles for sale.

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Mark

 

This August 2013 forum thread may help as it was headed “Is there a cutoff date where Fiat fixed the clutch judder?”

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/is-there-a-cutoff-date-where-Fiat-fixed-the-clutch-judder-/32136/

 

Logically, if a Fiat Ducato X250 was exhibiting serious ‘juddering’ symptoms prior to, say, 2010, those symptoms would either have been addressed at the time or subsequently, or the vehicle has somehow managed to survive with the problem present for at least seven years.

 

There’s a 2011 Adria Twin advertised here

 

http://premiermotorhomes.uk/motorhomes/adria-twin-sl-2011/

 

so the apparent shortage of post-2008 models may just be a statistical ‘blip’.

 

Before committing to purchasing it, check carefully how the motorhome behaves when reversing up a steepish slope. If it has the juddering disease it should show up.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hi..

A different topic..but I'd also make sure that they'd had the engine cover/scuttle mod done at the time...

 

..as 10years worth of water running onto/pooling around injectors & various *electrickery components wouldn't have done 'em any favours...

 

(* the reliability of early x250s, "electrically" in general , was something I asked about/touched upon, not so long back.

because at one time, it seemed as if hardly a day went by without someone posting about having a spurious electrical fault or an odd warning light or breaks in a loom etc etc.....again, how will those components have faired 10 years on..? :-S )

 

Obviously (unfortunately?) all makes/models with have "something" to look out for, especially as they get older..

(..I was quite taken with the Vivaro/sTraffics at one time..but the many reports of failing gearboxes and seized injectors have put me off them..)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mark569]

Thanks for the welcome Derek and thanks for the info.

 

yes I suppose as you say, it's been a while now and the problems should have been resolved. Unless of course the owner of the van has always avoided reversing uphill. I will as you advise test it out on a hill first.

 

It did make me curious though, there are just so many 07 vehicles on the market now, is it simply that people feel the need to sell their van when it gets to ten years old?

 

Yes I did see the 2011 van at Premier but unfortunately it's the long version and it's about 5 grand over my budget..

[mark569]

Thanks pepe63,

what is the cover scuttle mod?

Mark

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hi..

 

When they first came out, it was found that water would run through the centre join in the plastic windscreen scuttle panel, down onto the engine.

(..it seems to be a simple problem, that's on a lot of vehicles, eg the Vivaros etc?)

 

There was an official mod, involving fitting a plastic cover over the portion of the engine affected..

(some came with them already fitted, our 2007 Boxer, didn't, so was fitted under warranty).

 

I recall ours also had quite small drain holes in the scuttle (*by the wiper pivots?), which would easily clog , stopping it from draining away..and again, leak through the centre join

 

(* I may be mis-remembering the position with that of a different van?)

 

 

[Keith T]

Hi Mark and welcome.

Yes the 2007 vans were those included with the reverse judder, and mine - a Burstner Coachbuilt -was one of those. The work was duly carried out, and my documents include the certification for this.

I would suggest that if you do purchase a 2007/8 X250 you explore this fully, and hopefully would have some documentation confirming it had been carried out by a FIAT service dealer.

As far as the water ingress over the engine is concerned, again this cover was not on mine at purchase, and again my dealer did this work, and also that is on the documentation.

Hope this helps. .

[aandncaravan]

We regularly work on all sorts of age vehicles, like a lovely 17 year old Hymer this morning in fantastic condition. So the age of a van should not put you off, or any past history of 'mechanical issues', etc.

Also bear in mind that 'Juddergate' was an annoyance, it did not render the van undrivable.

 

Generally, so long as the mechanical elements have been looked after and have a full service history, the repair costs, are not as high as the habitation side. For example remedial work on Water Ingress can be thousands not the hundreds of a replacement Clutch.

 

I would be more concerned about where the vehicle has been, as Morocco dessert sand can get into everything on an older van leading to short and longer term issues.

Once the rubber seals, like for the Wheel Bearings, wear a little or harden letting the sand in it can be expensive.

 

We once did the wheel bearings on a Motorhome where the wheels were really hard to rotate. At the time we thought water had got past the seals and caused the damage, but someone recently told me they had problems with wheel bearings after a trip to Dessert lands. The bearings were so packed with Sand they would hardly rotate.

 

That made me think about the vehicle we did and I remembered they had a Painting done on the side of the van while in Morocco months before!!

 

While a new van going through sandy conditions might not have issues because the Seals would be supple and tight, an older van might not have such good resistance to the dust/sand?

 

Pure conjecture, but something maybe worth considering that had not occurred to me until recently?

 

 

At the start of World War II they decided to build a Fighter station at Rhosneigr, which later became RAF Valley on Anglesey.

They not only built it on the Beach, but the contractors cleared all the natural vegetation surrounding the site. As a result there was a major issue with Sand getting into everything and the first squadron of Spitfires were quickly withdrawn because of major issues with sand.

Within days of arriving, every single Spitfire was in a non flying condition.

 

Luckily the vegetation grew back and they cured the issue for it to become a very successful Airfield, eventually being taken over by the American Air Force as THE base to bring in every plane from Lightings to B17's. In one month during 1943, 463 big planes landed after a flight across the Atlantic.

It is now a busy Airfield where you can see everything from Eurofighters to Hawks.

Because of the micro climate it is often the only field still open when all others are closed down by poor weather, and the reason the USAF adopted it.

 

Sorry, a little aside there but if you come to North Wales and are into your Planes then go to Rhosneigr to see the Kite Surfers on the Beach. Then while your Partner enjoys the beach, nip round the back of the town to the end of the runway.

 

 

[mark569]

Thanks for that pepe I will be on the lookout for that now.

And thanks Keith, usefull info ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Aaaah I can remember back when Old Horace was just 10 B-) .........and I was 42 8-) ........

 

Horace is pushing 30 now, and in better nick than me :D ......

 

At least "his" spares are still cheap and available ;-) ........

 

 

 

 

[mark569]

Wow thanks aandncaravans,

That's quite encouraging for me. I can't afford new, more likely a ten year old but hopefully a nice one. I'll make a point of inquiring about it's previous ventures, especially if it's been across the Sahara lol.

 

I enjoyed the story of Valley. I also live in North Wales, not far from Caernarfon but I didn't know the story about the sand causing so much probs with the Spitfires!

 

Had to laugh at your suggestion of going to Rhosneiger beach because we have done exactly that before now and gone to the end of the beach and watched all sorts of big military planes coming and going!

Thanks, Mark.

[flicka]

Hi Mark I have sent you a PM,

[aandncaravan]

Mark, You are right the Sand problem doesn't get mentioned in any of the normal histories.

The Airfield opened in February 1941. In the book I read the Author states how the initial Fighter planes were withdrawn very quickly and a section of the Australian Air Force moved in. Must have been a bitter blow for them as they already had the Cross to bear of flying Boulton Paul Defiants or some similar outdated aircraft!!

 

 

This document : https://www.fba.org.uk/journals/index.php/FF/article/viewFile/179/79

covers some of it in more detail, but basically states,

 

"The construction of three runways in a triangular pattern began with the levelling of the sand dunes of Tywyn Trewan

As the cover of Marram grass was lost during the airfield construction, wind-blown sand became a big problem. Sloan describes how sea-breezes drove it into everything from workmen’s lunch boxes to aircraft engines. In May 1942, a week after taking up his post, Royal Air Force (RAF) Wing Commander W. Churchill wrote,

 

“.....had a busy week at Valley making detailed inspections of the camp and formulating schemes to combat the biggest enemy –SAND–”.

 

It then goes on to say,

"Unsuccessful attempts were made to stabilise the sand by seeding with grass. Then it was decided to dredge silt/Peat from the nearby lakes and spread it over the airfield and this proved to be an effective solution to the Sand problem.

In the process, the spectacular archaeological find at Llyn Cerrig Bach was made".

 

This find just near the Airfield was a hoard of 150 Iron age metal objects, the biggest of which was a 3 metre long Slave chain weighing over 6 kgs. This was promptly put to use by a Tractor pulling Lorries out of the mud before they realised it was just a little bit special!!

 

 

 

 

[mark569]

Thanks Allan, makes interesting reading and it was nice of the Germans to make a photographic record for us eh!