mike.T Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I am thinking of towing a small car behind our motor van It’s on a 3850kg Ducato Maxi chassis (almost 3700 kg normal running) On a Fiat 2.8 idtd engine and was wondering how towing almost a ton affects the overall performance’s,we travel to Spain/Portugal two/three times a year I am a little concerned that I may be struggling a bit on the long hills, and will be restricted to 60 mph on the flat ! I would be grateful to hear from other motorhome's that have used similar outfit. and how the outfit performed Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Hi, I tow a Toyota Yaris no problems. Cruising on motorways you won't know its there. Just change down a gear going up hills. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Might be worth considering "costing in" an engine rechip to take the BHP from 125 to 140 approx. Gives that little extra pull on long hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 tonyishuk - 2006-12-29 3:41 PM Might be worth considering "costing in" an engine rechip to take the BHP from 125 to 140 approx. Gives that little extra pull on long hills. Sorry Tony but the idtd engine isn't electronically managed therefore not chippable. One small point about towing a small car on a trailer, it will probably total more than a Tonne so check your vehicle's max train weight before parting with any money for car/trailer. Also you will be restricted to 60MPH max while towing anyway! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomefinder Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Hiya Mike T, last year we towed a Fiat seicento on a trailer, through France and down to Malaga. We had a 2.8 Kontiki ( Fiat ) with the same payload as you have. We were fully loaded and did not have any problems, yes it does slow you down on hills, but we were still cruising at 70 on the motorways. We averaged about 350 miles on a tank of fuel. Going over the hills/mountains obviously we got a lot less.Friends followed us back from Spain in a 2.7 Rapido, not towing, and we put about the same amount of fuel in at fuel stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 "but we were still cruising at 70 on the motorways." Good God man! are you a complete lunatic or just practising? 70MPH whilst towing a car on a trailer is not only illegal its also plain stupidity! Even at 60 MPH you could have a very nasty accident if it all got out of hand. What if a tyre had blown out? What if someone pulled out in front of you causing you to brake suddenly? You'd soon see your car and trailer overtaking you that's what! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Uncle dave is well right me biddy. And not only that, if the motorhome weighs over three and a half ton gross then you could be looking at speed limits of even less, especially on the continent. The fines can be a bit heavier and immediate abroad too, so you need to do some homework before parting with your cash. fred and Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 So all these heavy goods with trailers are lunitics? Not condoning excessive speeds, but get a light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 So all these heavy goods with trailers are lunitics? Well.... Yes... Possibly. If they exceed the speed limit for whatever type of vehicle or combination of vehicles they happen to be driving. They might kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.T Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Thank you for all your reply’s I have done me homework ! I think !! Regarding the train weight I have 1350kg, to play with but would hope to keep A car and trailer to just under 1000kg I also take on board the parts regarding Speeding . At over 3500kg we should be just about legal at 57mph I am an experienced at towing caravans we changed over six years ago , as I said my only concern is how the Fiat would cope ! with the extra weight overall Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 sshortcircuit - 2006-12-29 9:24 PM So all these heavy goods with trailers are lunitics? Not condoning excessive speeds, but get a light. If they are doing 70 MPH then HELL YEAH!!!!! One major difference with HGVs is that most of them are tractor and semi trailer (not all I Know, some are rigid bodied with a conventional trailer) but all of them are limited by law to 56 MPH max! If they exceed this then they are crazy. You do see them from time to time in this country, mostly in my experience Irish HGVs. I've often wondered how they get away with it. D. P.S. did you mean get a life? I've got plenty of lights, they're all over my house, in my motorhome, I even have several torches! I also beleive I have a life so what did you mean exactly and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Don't want to start a tribal war, but it is funny how some vehicles, from some countries, seem able to travel faster than others while subject to the same speed limits and logging rules.I have noticed that most Spanish and Portugese trucks seem able travel faster than French/German/Dutch ones, and many of the Eastern European trucks seem to share the same characteristic. Makes me very suspicious about their governor settings and the viability of their loggers! They're all supposed to be limited to 100kph!Oh, and another thing. Why do none of them have beam converters in UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Beam converters - Probably for the same reason I havent felt the need since yellow bulbs finished in France!!! The main rule to be weary about in France is priority to the right at junctions without white lines! That,s a bit of a bugger if you forget. C. (HGV1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 If they are doing 70 MPH then HELL YEAH!!!!! ... all of them are limited by law to 56 MPH max! If they exceed this then they are crazy. Sorry Dave, but one of my pet peeves is to be told that something is impossible or at the very least murderously dangerous, when people in other countries do it routinely. (This is a problem mostly found in aviation.) Jut two weeks ago I drove (by car, not RV) from Tampa to Orlando at a steady 70mph. Following me – at a sensible, safe distance, but matching my speed – was a vast Peterbilt, far bigger than any truck I have seen on this side of The Pond. This was a routine operation in the States, and they have the safest roads in the world – so why is it dangerous here? (We know why it is illegal: Downing St is full of busybodies.) BTW, a Peterbilt with its bonnet open is quite a sight. That engine block is the size of the QE2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Okay Bill, I'll concede that a tractor and semi trailer rig is not as likely to get out of control as a rigid and trailer at speed but the fact remains that the damage these outfits do when they do lose it is made a lot worse when high speeds are involved. Any HGV driver in Europe hauling a 44 Tonne rig at 70 MPH is a lunatic, if for no other reason than he's risking his livelihood for the sake of speed. A good friend of mine drives for a recovery company in Leicester and they handle everything from a moped to outsized recovery operations. I've seen the photos of what happens when 44 Tonnes gets out of control at 56 MPH, the mess it makes at 70 MPH is like a bomb blast zone. A car on a trailer, even a twin axled job is not stable enough to be towed safely at 70 MPH! End of! D. P.S. I'm still waiting for Sshortcircuits explanation of the "get a light" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Bill Thanks for a common sense responce, a quality sadly missing these days. Dave You appear to have a problem when your "opinions" are questioned. "Get a light" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 There are several misconceptions about speed and HGV,s. At a presentation by the Police Accident investigation team at a Club I was a member of it was made abundantly clear that for a vehicle in good condition with brakes on all wheels that the coefficient of friction between the rubber of the tyres and the road was the only variable. If the tyre compounds are similar then a 44 tonner and a mini will take the same time and distance to stop from a given speed. The other misconception is that SPEED KILLS. This is untrue, its changing speed quickly that kills, like stopping fast or kissing a vehicle travelling in the oposite direction. The killers are people. I must admit that many lorry drivers travel far too close to one another in traffic. But equally us motorists are also guilty of causing problems by constantly nipping in front of other vehicles and pulling into their braking+thinking distance. We swear when its done to us don't we? Drivers who "dawdle" are also uncaring unthinking motorists who raise the blood pressure of most others who just want to get from A to B in a reasonable time. Then there is the government who apply rediculous speed limits and enforcement systems principally as revenue raisers. (OK OK!) Personally I don,t have any problems with HGV,s doing 70 MPH if the roads are wide and long enough and the traffic is light - like it is in America. Another thing that is totally unfair is that we all have to reduce our speed to the SLOWEST driver in a queue, not the AVERAGE driver. (A prize to the first person to invent the "levity lever" to permit a vehicle to genuinely OVERtake!) Just think, if we all doubled our speed we would be on the roads for half the time and the roads would only be half conjested. I could go on! Roll on Top Gear 2007. Brothers to the revolution. C. (Sorry but I cant remain totally serious for that long! I could be run over tomorrow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 What is all the talk of speed about. We all bees on holiday in our vans take it easy and enjoy the scenery. But don't dawdle you will upset Clive. A Happy New Year for 2007 to all of you contributors and readers and may it bring you all that you want and take away all that you don't! Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 sshortcircuit - 2006-12-31 2:21 PM Bill Thanks for a common sense responce, a quality sadly missing these days. Dave You appear to have a problem when your "opinions" are questioned. "Get a light" On the contrary, I have no problem with my opinions being questioned, ask many of the regular contributors to this and other forums. You still haven't explained the "get a light" comment. The normal phrase is "get a life" so I don't understand "get a light" at all. Please enighten me. And as for a reasoned response, well I've seen first hand the mess that trailers make when they get out of control, big trailers, small trailers, caravans, single axled trailers, twin axled trailers and even three axled trailers wieghing in at anything from a few hundred kilos up to several Tonnes. I've helped to clean up after them. One simple fact of life is that the heavier an object is and the faster its travelling then the bigger mess it makes when it goes pear shaped. How many times during the summer months do we hear on the radio traffic news that one or other road is closed due to an overturned caravan? Is this because caravans are inherently unstable? No, its because the eejit behind the wheel was probably travelling too fast and a cross wind hit his 'van or someone pulled out and he had to slam on the brakes and then it all went belly up, quite literally. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 You are OK now Dave. Post 666 has past! Regards to Jackie & Dexter! Happy New Year to all. C. (Can you see where the tongue is?) Tomorrow all the decorations and lights come down and while I type some prat is letting off fireworks at 1800 hours in a hurricane! World without end ........ C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Hi Clive, thanks mate, I hadn't spotted that. Have yourselves a happy and healthy 2007 and we'll see you both soon. D, D n J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Come on now Sshortcircuit, its your turn for a reasoned response. Try to make it a little more than just a few lines of thinly veiled insults though, there's a good chap. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorhomefinder Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I did do 70mph with the car on a trailer behind. I have been a heavy mobile crane driver for 25 years, and not had an accident, i keep my distance and keep a watchful eye on my mirrors, and only do such speed on the open road and when the situation allowed, and only abroad. I do not recommend anyone that has not driven large vehicles to suddenly go out and start towing with a motorhome. I prepared my van and trailer, i.e. tyre pressures, extra straps, locks etc.In one full year fulltiming, towing with the van, we did not have one problem or near miss, preparation and common sense, is what we used.We saw muppets who could not even park a 18foot van, never mind a 24 foot and 12 foot trailer.In an emergency, any driver should be prepared to stop or accelerate out of a situation.It's not the speed that kills you, it's the sudden stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I take your point but just because you've not had a problem as yet doesn't mean you won't have one in the future. While I agree that it is not the speed but the sudden stop that does the damage I would say that the sudden stop is all the more dramatic from 70 MPH. Whilst towing anything you are restricted to a maximum of 60 MPH in this country and, as far as I'm aware, similar restrictions are imposed in other EU countries so why do you feel its ok to exceed these limits? Its also worth bearing in mind that whilst this country's speeding fines are often considered harsh by many, most continental countries are even more draconian and their police officers often carry guns. I've had the unpleasant experience of looking into the business end of a 9mm automatic pistol held by a French Gendarme and I can assure you its not an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat. I've seen far too many road accidents over the years where the trailer and excess speed were the two main factors, on one occasion a Transit towing a road compressor (about 1.3 Tonnes) passed me and I was doing 70MPH. About half a mile further on he had to brake to avoid a bike pulling out in front of him. The whole outfit got very badly out of shape and the compressor flipped then dragged the Tranny up the embankment before separating from the van and disappearing over the top of the embankment. Had he been doing 60 as he was supposed to he wouldn't have had to slam the brakes on like he did, if the outfit had gotten out of shape it would have been nothing like as dramatic an exit from the motorway. By the time I passed him the van was looking very second hand and the driver was looking very ashen. D. Still no explanation of "get a light" Sshortcircuit? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixters other half Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi everyone, We tow a smart car on a Brian James trailer behind our old Clou liner. We dont have any problems but forget about going fast. Top wack would be about 60 on a motor way. I can tell you that on the odd occasion I have had to stamp on the brakes to let a lower life form survive, the car and trailer does give a hefty shove up the rear end of the motor home. That being 7.49 tonnes, I wonder just how a lighter vehicle at 3.5 tonnes would fair? Possibly pushed that little bit to far and met what was coming the other way? Speed and weight increases braking distance substantially even on good driving conditions, so take it easy, take time to smell the roses not push them up!! One other point about towing this time of year - the towed car gets covered on what ever is on the road at the time. After 120 miles I had to clean all the windows on the Smart car before I could see to get it off the trailer. I really need one of those skirts that catches all the crud fitted - anyone know where they are sold?? HNY VoH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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