VOSA Motor Caravan Classification

[Mike Chapman]

The following information appears in the Feb 2007 issue of Motor Caravan.

 

[VOSA has changed the classification of some Motor Caravans to "Living Vans" so that they now require a class vii (Goods Vehicle) MOT. The changes will affect motor homes with garages, over 3000 kg. A Living Van between 3000kg and 3500 kg requires a Class vii MOT while Living Vans over 3500 kg could be subject to a HGV MOT every year from new.

 

Rob Haggar of the Department of Transport clarifies what is meant by a Living Van. He said "It is our view that bikes or cars carried in a designated area on a vehicle should be regarded as goods and that vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them have to be regarded as Living Vans and not Motor Caravans"]

 

The Class vii MOT (£53.80) is specifically for goods vehicles and not the same as the Class iv MOT (£50.35) for cars and Motor Caravans.

 

I wonder where this leaves vehicles classified as Living Vans. Whether these, because they are now now classified as Goods Vehicles, will have to have the 56 mph Speed Limiter fitted and eventually be restricted to Lanes 1 and 2 of Motorways? How will this impact on Insurance and Breakdown cover?

 

My van does not fall into this category but I think we all need clarification of what goods a Garage Model can carry before it is re-classified as a Living Van. Does "Bikes" mean Scooters and Motorcycles or push bikes as well and does this only refer to being carried in a garage or will it also cover specialised Bike Racks or storage systems?

 

This will also affect the classification of vehicle parking and may make vehicles at present acceptable under House Covenants and Feus previously not acceptable because the Covenant may ban goods Vehicles.

 

If any one on the Forum has already researched this would they please post their findings on this thread as the VOSA offices are now shut until 2nd January (3rd January in Scotland). I will do a search on the internet to try and find the information and post the results on this thread.

 

Regards and a Happy New Year to all on the Forum.

 

Mike. :-S

[Keith T]

Does VOSA really have the power to 'willy-nilly' change the regs without consultaion and discussion.advice from the users/ bodies? Surely it has to at least publish its proposals first, and on that basis, why have we not seen anything in the Motorcaravan press, or even from the Caravan Club? After all, when the question of changing the 'status' of caravans and proposing an annual charge or even an MOT hasa been raised, there has been a very active participation (so far successfully, I think) to stop this.

[Mike Chapman]

Hello Keith,

 

I think that this re-classification has been around for some time (See www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhomes_mot.shtml ). The article in Motor Caravan may be because they have just picked up on it or may have more up to date information.

 

I suppose the difference between the proposals for caravans and motorhomes is that caravans do not fall under the rules for MOT testing and this would have been a completely new form of Road Tax/Testing.

 

Far be it from me to criticise the CC but 300,000 caravan members versus 80,000 motor caravanners may have something to do with it. It would be nice to think that the CC treats all members the same whatever their vehicle.

 

Regards,

 

Mike.

[twooks]

you stand no chance of getting a supportive / informative response from CC on the topic of motorhomes, well p'raps if hell freezes over *-)

 

B-)

[Brian Kirby]

I have just sent the following to Mr Haggar seeking further clarification.

Dear Mr Haggar

Please see the attached quotation, taken from Motor Caravan magazine, January 2007.

 

As you will see, you have been quoted in the second paragraph, as clarifying the meaning of “Living Van”.

 

“VOSA has changed the classification of some Motor Caravans to "Living Vans" so that they now require a class vii (Goods Vehicle) MOT.  The changes will affect motor homes with garages, over 3000 kg.  A Living Van between 3000kg and 3500 kg requires a Class vii MOT while Living Vans over 3500 kg could be subject to a HGV MOT every year from new. 

Rob Haggar of the Department of Transport clarifies what is meant by a Living Van.  He said "It is our view that bikes or cars carried in a designated area on a vehicle should be regarded as goods and that vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them have to be regarded as Living Vans and not Motor Caravans".

 

I wonder if you would be kind enough to clarify whether there has been consultation on this proposed change?  I ask, because it seems there is considerable scope for confusion as to what will constitute a “garage”.  Will this turn upon a manufacturer’s description of the boot area of a motorhome, because this is how the boot is actually being used, or because the boot has been somehow equipped to be used in this way?

 

I should be grateful for your reply in due course, because I know there are many concerned motor caravanners wanting to know where they now stand vis a vis vehicle tests.  I will, of course, pass on your reply to them.

 

Should you wish to make a similar request for clarification, his e-mail address is rob.haggar@dft.gsi.gov.uk

[colin]

When Mr Haggar says 'bikes' does he mean motorbikes? have been looking at VOSA site to no avail. Attached is scan of Adria brouchure, I wonder which are considered 'Living Vans'? obvious you might think, but if a bike or car is classed as goods whereas any other item is not, maybe not so simple as that seems to be a twisted piece of logic to me.

[Mike Chapman]

Hello Brian,

 

Was just about to e-mail Rob Haggar when I saw your posting so will leave it and see what response you get. If you need any further information/help let me know.

 

Have e-mailed Motor Caravan to find out where their information came from.

 

Regards,

 

Mike. :-D

[Bill]

Mike Chapman - 2006-12-30 4:49 PM

 

Rob Haggar of the Department of Transport clarifies what is meant by a Living Van. He said "It is our view that bikes or cars carried in a designated area on a vehicle should be regarded as goods

 

 

So, if we carry our car or bike in a garage we are in trouble, but if we put it on a trailer and tow it, that’s fine.

 

Isn’t bureaucracy marvellous?

 

 

[Bill]

Keith T - 2006-12-30 5:01 PM

 

Does VOSA really have the power to 'willy-nilly' change the regs without consultaion and discussion.advice from the users/ bodies? Surely it has to at least publish its proposals first

 

 

Keith

 

Your mistake is thinking that Britain is a democracy

[Clive]

There has to be a "harmonised" EU standard on the classification between Motorcaravan and living van - that is they are percieved in a wider EU audience to be different at all. I would have expected the use of the vehicle and its weight to be the overriding considerations.

 

You can after all tax a 44 ton capable tractor unit as a Private car (as demosntrated by an infamous boxer)

 

Look forward to the responce you get.

 

C.

 

[Clive]

His INBOX will be full tomorrow!! Just sent :-

 

"Dear Sir,

 

I have an interest in the classifications of motorhomes and understand that they can be classified in the UK as either “Motor caravan” or “Living Van”.

 

I intend to replace my existing 3.5 tonne coachbuilt motorhome and trailer which carries two mopeds with a different motorhome of at least 3500 tonne GVW which can accommodate the two mopeds inside in a rear storage area. This principally to reduce Ferry costs and to simplify reversing.

 

Please can you advise me (in detail please indicating the relevant acts and chapters etc.) of any differences between these two classifications and any others that may be relevent?. Are these differences part of an EU directive?, and what these differences mean in terms of driving license requirements, vehicle taxation costs and MOT testing cost and frequency?.

 

 

Yours faithfully"

 

 

[Keith T]

Clive

well done, letter is spot on, and look forward to seeing his response to you.

Perhaps all Motorhome Forum members should e-mail something on similar lines to him, plus of course - being totally deomcratic (ah, if only that was the way things were!!) official letters on our behalf from the likes of the CC, C&CC and other similar bodies......!

[Usinmyknaus]

I'm rather horrified by this revelation! I've spent a year researching which motorhome to buy and a few weeks ago paid a £2,000 deposit on a van with a garage. I'm now legally committed to a further £38,000+. I would not have ordered this van had I known it was to be subject to HGV mots and maybe other restrictions to boot - I'd have chosen a different model.

 

The "logic" in the change sounds bonkers but, surely, manufacturers and dealers should have known about the likley change and warned buyers?

 

As part of my research I checked the DVLA website to understand the licensing requirements and so decided to stay under the 3500Kg point. There was nothing I could find on the VOSA site to warn me of the impending change.

 

If this change really is going to happen, I'll have to ask Lowdhams whether I can switch to another, garage-less model.

 

I'll watch developments on the forum. Oh, incidentally, this forum has been a boon and fount of knowledge for me while deciding which van to buy. Thanks to all, especially David Lloyd for the Knaus postings.

 

Bob

[zulurita]

Having read this post I am very confused!

 

My motrcaravan/motorhome has just had its first mot, actually only due Jan 22nd 2007 but as I had the Fiat side of things serviced mid Dec 06 I also had the mot done at the same time. As far as I was aware it was an ordinary mot. The Road Tax renewal form sent by DVLA didn't mention any changes. I have an Auto-Trail 660 7.03m and 3850kg (3.85t) so a PHG. So am I affected? I did my road tax on line and my new tax disc came ok.

 

Worried and confused.

 

Rita

[Brian Kirby]

Usinmyknaus - 2007-01-01 5:14 PM I'm rather horrified by this revelation! I've spent a year researching which motorhome to buy and a few weeks ago paid a £2,000 deposit on a van with a garage. I'm now legally committed to a further £38,000+. I would not have ordered this van had I known it was to be subject to HGV mots and maybe other restrictions to boot - I'd have chosen a different model. The "logic" in the change sounds bonkers but, surely, manufacturers and dealers should have known about the likley change and warned buyers? As part of my research I checked the DVLA website to understand the licensing requirements and so decided to stay under the 3500Kg point. There was nothing I could find on the VOSA site to warn me of the impending change. If this change really is going to happen, I'll have to ask Lowdhams whether I can switch to another, garage-less model. I'll watch developments on the forum. Oh, incidentally, this forum has been a boon and fount of knowledge for me while deciding which van to buy. Thanks to all, especially David Lloyd for the Knaus postings. Bob

The test is only a bit more expensive, and apparently required after year 1 in lieu of year 3.  Restriction to 60 mph probably won't be that much of an issue in practice, as many seem to find higher speeds merely consume more fuel, but don't save them much time.  Restriction to lanes 1 and 2 ditto: a motorhome in the outside lane is liable to cause apoplexy among following car drivers.  If you like the van, stick with it.  I don't think this change, when it is explained, will prove that onerous.

I'm interested in the definition of goods, though.  Since the bikes/cars involved would be in private ownership, rather than being delivered, it would seem almost any unfixed items in a motorhome could logically be so defined.  What about the levelling ramps, cleaning materials, drinks, food, tools, tables, chairs etc etc we all carry.  Why would those be any more, or less, goods than the bikes and cars?  Aren't all motorhomes just as logically "living vans" as those carrying cars or bikes?  What about push bikes?  Why is a private car in a boot (hardly likely in a van with a GVW between 3,000 and 3,500Kg, but we'll let that pass!) a good, but one on a trailer not.

Let's wait to see what the boy says before we string him up!  I rather suspect the reporting may be a bit garbled.  However, if the change is, actually, as reported, then let's let him have with both barrels, because this seems so ill conceived and illogically founded that I think it will prove totally unworkable!

[RoyH]

I'm sorry if this is a bit negative but I remember reading recently in some mag or another about someone who took their 'van for an "ordniary" MOT to a Vosa Station and were told by the MOT station guy that because he had a garage he needed an HGV test. He took the 'van to a diffferent station and it went through normally. I can't find this anywhere now but maybe this post will rattle someone else's memory. In my memory of many years in the Road Transport Engineering industry "Goods" were classed as "For Hire or reward" I hardly think this can be applied to our 'vans. You could tax an Artic towing unit as a car as long as you didn't put a trailer on it or carried any "Goods"

It wasn't a goods vehicle until a goods carrying load was imposed upon it

[messerschmitt owner]

surely they cannot retrospectively change this for those of us with older vans - mine has never carried a scooter inside - despite having the largest garage I could find of any motorhome (and with a 4.6 ton chassis).

 

Like many things do do with changing tax bands and classifications, it must surely apply to new registrations only and from a specific date!

 

Anyway, if not, VOSA will be getting my scathing e-mail too!

[Usinmyknaus]

Thanks for the advice Brian. As a newbie who thought he had done his homework the ramifications of this change in the rules came as a shock. I hope it won't be as bad as it looks in practice. The worry of course is that this could be the thin end of a large wedge. If the logic behind it is as daft as it appears then how long will it be before we have to fit tachographs, record driving hours etc? What after that, Hazardous Materials placards on all sides to show we are carrying compressed gas?

 

I would like to know what consultation was done on this proposed legislation and whether a Regulatory Impact Assessment was carried out. There certainly can't have been much publicity about the proposed change as I'm sure the very wide reading I did before signing on the dotted line for the van would have shown something about it.

 

I am also suspicious of the motives behind this change. It seemed that motorhomes were invisible to the regulatory classes - the registration documents just showing the base vehicle and DVLA just mentioning the different speed limits compared to cars. With this new development could come the risk of special tax bands.

 

As for retrospective effect, I would not trust them on that either. Another well known arm of the DFT the CAA is seriously proposing to make all owners of even tiny, microlight aircraft retrofit very expensive (estimates in magazines range from £700 to £2,000) transponders to their aircraft. It's not just the cost of these gizmos that is an issue, the kit continuously broadcasts their position and movements even in so called "uncontrolled" or "open" airspace. Big brother rules!

 

Similarly, lots of people spent huge amounts of their taxed income on 4x4s when they were treated as any other car, but in just a few years, with official sanction, those drivers were made to feel parias, enemies of the earth and pedestrian-hostile yobs. So if the proposed changes, when clarified, look bad, then all motorcaracanners may need to object, in self-defence.

 

Bob

 

[Ralph]

Usinmyknaus - 2007-01-01 11:31 PM

 

Similarly, lots of people spent huge amounts of their taxed income on 4x4s when they were treated as any other car, but in just a few years, with official sanction, those drivers were made to feel parias, enemies of the earth and pedestrian-hostile yobs.

 

4X4 drivers may or may not be pariahs etc. but they're not taxed as such. They are still PLG and there is no such thing as a 4X4 tax. Road tax is only on emissions, whether 4X4 or not and, incidentally, was not retrospective.

[Bill]

Ralph - 2007-01-02 8:08 AM

 

Never argue with policemen or lunatics

 

 

There's a difference??

[Usinmyknaus]

Ralph - 2007-01-02 8:08 AM

 

Usinmyknaus - 2007-01-01 11:31 PM

 

Similarly, lots of people spent huge amounts of their taxed income on 4x4s when they were treated as any other car, but in just a few years, with official sanction, those drivers were made to feel parias, enemies of the earth and pedestrian-hostile yobs.

 

4X4 drivers may or may not be pariahs etc. but they're not taxed as such. They are still PLG and there is no such thing as a 4X4 tax. Road tax is only on emissions, whether 4X4 or not and, incidentally, was not retrospective.

 

Fair point Ralph. I was not actually saying that 4x4s had attracted extra tax. It was the relentless bad publicity and negative political statements and actions which I feel have distorted the market and caused a higher than expected depreciation in the value of my 4x4 (which is actually less polluting and more pedestrian friendly than many "normal" cars.)

 

With my first motorhome on order and due for delivery in May, a big concern for me is that if changes to legislation make market sentiment move against motorhomes with garages then I could take a large financial hit come trade-in time for the next van.

 

I also have a natural distrust of regulators, especially those empowered by delegated legislation to make up any rules they like without further scrutiny by Parliament (for any constitutional experts out there - yes, I know SI's have to lie on the table of the House of Commons for a period and an MP or two could, if we persuaded them "pray" against them but how often does that work? I don't know, but would not want to bet cash on it.)

 

Another concern for me as a newbie is whether this is the start of unhealthy official interest in Motorhomes. After all, if the powers that be consider leisure 4x4s an uneccessary evil purchased by the rich and profligate what will the politics of envy make of something costing twice as much and using more fuel? It is difficult to see any justification for the reported changes on genuine safety grounds so one has to wonder at the true motive.

 

As Brian Kirby suggests, we need a lot more info on the proposed changes.

[Ralph]

Bill - 2007-01-02 10:20 AM

 

Ralph - 2007-01-02 8:08 AM

 

Never argue with policemen or lunatics

 

 

There's a difference??

 

I couldn't possibly comment officer. :-D

[Ralph]

Usinmyknaus - 2007-01-02 2:25 PM

Fair point Ralph. I was not actually saying that 4x4s had attracted extra tax.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. It's just that a lot of people seem to believe that there is a 4X4 tax when actually the tax is on emissions (which could include 2WD MH's if they should come into band G) It's become an annoying urban myth now. Similarly I've been told in the past that we have to have electricity on sites whether we use it or not because the EU make them do it. 8o|

 

As for your mistrust of our ruling masters I couldn't disagree with that sentiment.

[Vixters other half]

Roy H

I was that man who wanted to book an MOT and was told that because I had a garage it was a goods vehicle. However the VOSA inspector was of this world and was most curteous and helpful. He could tell the difference between a motor home and a goods vehicle even if his seniors could not!

 

I would suggest we all keep our powder dry and wait for a more detailled explanation.

 

My understanding is that a goods vehicle is one that is used for hire and reward. Many enthusiasts of old commercial vehicles drive them on car licenses as they are not being used as goods vehicles, but maintained as part of our motoring heritage.

 

VoH

[RoyH]

Thanks VoH I knew I had read something somewhere. I agree, this needs more clarification from the powers that be. Wait and see if anyone gets a reply from the man at the ministry.