How many seats?

[Matrix Meanderer]

I have just changed my registration number to a cherished number and on checking the new DVLA V5C (Log Book) I see that the "number of seats, including driver" is recorded as 2.

 

However on my revised insurance documents (£20 just to change the reg number - outrageous!!) the insurance company records the "number of seats with seat belts" as 5, which is correct.

 

My question is: Should I contact the DVLA to change the log book to also show 5 seats or does the DVLA document only apply to the driving cab? Obviously the three other seats have been created by the motorhome company.

 

May be something not worth worrying about or is it?

[myshell]

I would be inclined to have the V5C changed to include the other 3 belted seats, if you had the misfortune to be stopped by the police or VOSA at a road side check and you had three passengers in the back, you would have a hard job convincing them that your V5C was wrong and your insurance certificate was correct as your V5C is the official document for your vehicle. You don't say if the 3 rear seats are forward, rearward or side facing seats as this could also cause problems if they are side facing.

 

Phil

[Matrix Meanderer]

Thanks - good point.

 

The MH is an Adria and has two fully belted forward facing seats and one backward facing lap belted seat in the dining area.

 

The forward facing seats are a common arrangement but the backward facing lap belted seat is fairly rare.

 

Might be worth getting into a conversation with the DVLA to check their advice I guess.

[PJay]

 

Did you keep a copy of the old log book?

What did that say?

I would say you should ask DVLA to correct the log book.

We had to have our log book changed as it said 2 seats, when we have 4 belted seats facing forward. ( sounds same as you) We don't have the rear facing seat belt. If the van is not new, did the previous owners add the 5th belt? If so, is it legal. I understood that you cannot add a seat belt after manufacture ?

I may be wrong,

PJay

[Matrix Meanderer]

Thanks.

 

The MH is a 2015 Adria Coral Plus and was manufactured with 5 belted seats.

 

The issue only came to light when I changed the registration and actually read the new V5C :-D

 

The original V5C also only showed 2 seats but in the euphoria of owning a new vehicle I didn't check the small print!

 

Looking at the website advice it seems simple enough to make the change and post off to DVLA.

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

A 2015 Adria Coral Plus will have ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) and being of ‘multi-stage’ construction will have two Certificates of Conformity (CoC) - a ‘first stage CoC’ produced by Fiat who provides the Ducato chassis and a’ second stage CoC’ produced by Adria who converts that chassis into a coachbuilt motorhome.

 

When a vehicle is first registered in the UK Form V55/4 needs to be completed as described here

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584797/V355X4-Guide-to-filling-in-the-application-for-first-vehcle-tax-and-registration-of-a-new-motor-vehicle.pdf

 

For a multi-stage vehicle it is the final-stage CoC (in this instance the CoC produced by Adria) from which data are taken and entered into Form V55/4. A selection of the data on Form V55/4 are then transferred to the vehicle’s V5C document by the DVLA’s system.

 

My 2015 Rapido has two CoC’s - a sketchy Fiat one that carries no ’number of seats’ datum and a more comprehensive one (in French) produced by Rapido. The latter CoC states that my motorhome has 4 seating positions (including that of the driver), 4 seats intended to be used only when the motorhome is stopped, and no seats accessible for wheel-chair users.

 

As should be plain from the advice on completing Form V55/4, the DVLA now allows flexibility regarding how the number-of-seats datum can be obtained. (It used to be the case that the number-of-seats datum for a vehicle with ECWVTA must be taken from Field 42.1 of the CoC.)

 

The DVLA posted my motorhome’s Fiat and Rapido CoCs to me after the vehicle had been registered, and I assume that is standard practice. Assuming that Matrix Meanderer has the Adria CoC, it would be worth him checking what’s on it regarding the seat-number.

 

As I think I’ve said before, an incorrect number-of-seats datum on the V5C can be ignored as far as police/VOSA checks are concerned. As long as the way in which people are being carried complies with the relevant regulations, it won’t matter what the V5C says. Provided that MM is complying with those regulations when he carries passengers, there will be no legal ‘passenger-carrying’ offence if he has, say, 5 adults in the 5 belted-seats but the V5C datum is “2”. This is easily proven by looking through the other end of the telescope - if the V5C number-of-seats datum for MM’s Adria were wrongly specified as “8” but the vehicle only has 5 travel-seats, this would not allow him to legally carry 8 passengers.

 

Obviously it makes good sense to contact the DVLA and get the number-of-seats datum on the Adria’s V5C to match the actual number of travel-seats in the motorhome (and, presumably, the number of seats shown on the Adria CoC) but the risk is nil that MM could be complying fully with paseenger-carrying regulations but end up in court just because there’s a number-of-seats inaccuracy on the Adria’s V5C.

[Matrix Meanderer]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-05-21 8:24 AM

 

A 2015 Adria Coral Plus will have ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) and being of ‘multi-stage’ construction will have two Certificates of Conformity (CoC) - a ‘first stage CoC’ produced by Fiat who provides the Ducato chassis and a’ second stage CoC’ produced by Adria who converts that chassis into a coachbuilt motorhome.

 

When a vehicle is first registered in the UK Form V55/4 needs to be completed as described here

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584797/V355X4-Guide-to-filling-in-the-application-for-first-vehcle-tax-and-registration-of-a-new-motor-vehicle.pdf

 

For a multi-stage vehicle it is the final-stage CoC (in this instance the CoC produced by Adria) from which data are taken and entered into Form V55/4. A selection of the data on Form V55/4 are then transferred to the vehicle’s V5C document by the DVLA’s system.

 

My 2015 Rapido has two CoC’s - a sketchy Fiat one that carries no ’number of seats’ datum and a more comprehensive one (in French) produced by Rapido. The latter CoC states that my motorhome has 4 seating positions (including that of the driver), 4 seats intended to be used only when the motorhome is stopped, and no seats accessible for wheel-chair users.

 

As should be plain from the advice on completing Form V55/4, the DVLA now allows flexibility regarding how the number-of-seats datum can be obtained. (It used to be the case that the number-of-seats datum for a vehicle with ECWVTA must be taken from Field 42.1 of the CoC.)

 

The DVLA posted my motorhome’s Fiat and Rapido CoCs to me after the vehicle had been registered, and I assume that is standard practice. Assuming that Matrix Meanderer has the Adria CoC, it would be worth him checking what’s on it regarding the seat-number.

 

As I think I’ve said before, an incorrect number-of-seats datum on the V5C can be ignored as far as police/VOSA checks are concerned. As long as the way in which people are being carried complies with the relevant regulations, it won’t matter what the V5C says. Provided that MM is complying with those regulations when he carries passengers, there will be no legal ‘passenger-carrying’ offence if he has, say, 5 adults in the 5 belted-seats but the V5C datum is “2”. This is easily proven by looking through the other end of the telescope - if the V5C number-of-seats datum for MM’s Adria were wrongly specified as “8” but the vehicle only has 5 travel-seats, this would not allow him to legally carry 8 passengers.

 

Obviously it makes good sense to contact the DVLA and get the number-of-seats datum on the Adria’s V5C to match the actual number of travel-seats in the motorhome (and, presumably, the number of seats shown on the Adria CoC) but the risk is nil that MM could be complying fully with paseenger-carrying regulations but end up in court just because there’s a number-of-seats inaccuracy on the Adria’s V5C.

 

Thanks Derek for that very comprehensive reply.

 

I have checked my Adria's CoC (Nr. 7663) and it does indeed show 5 "seating positions [including driver]"

The CoC is counter stamped by the DVLA on 11 June 2015 so all is well with this paperwork.

 

I will be sending the V5C off to correct the number of seats and hopefully that will be that.

 

I just wonder why the DVLA, having approved the CoC did not put the correct number of seats on the V5C 8-)

Anyway many thanks for the explanation.

You live and learn!