Refillable gas cylinders

[TheSearles]

Hello there, I am unable to offer any advice, I was more interested in why you wish to convert rather than simply replacing the gas bottle when it runs out?

[TheSearles]

..... and a supplementary question from which you will be able to tell how green I am. How do you know when the gas is getting low other than the obvious?

[Alanb]

For the reasons posted by Ocsid and Hallii, I consider that an external filler point is a must. Anyone opting not to use an external filler, is doing a great disservice to all other users.

 

I have experienced a problem when my partly empty cylinders failed to fill, probably due to pump fault, of which there was a previous history at that location. However when I disconnected the filler gun, I was shocked to observe gas leaking from the external filling point. As we had not registered any delivery, I promptly left the forecourt and investigated at a nearby but comparatively isolated location. The leak had stopped, but the disc valve in the external filling point was stuck at an angle, and the lpg in the filling hose to the cylinders had been boiling off. The disc valve was gently tweeked into position with a suitable tool. This is the sort of thing that you do not want to happen. I considered that a particle of grit could have caused the valve to stick, and the filling point has been changed as a precaution. If the filling point had been inside my gas bottle locker???????

 

Alan

 

 

[AndyLou]

While I agree an external filling point is better I am not sure about your argument Alan.

 

Maybe the grit got in because it was external?

Also you say what if had been in the locker ????????

I have always assumed that lockers were vented so any gas/liquid would escape out the bottom.

 

A bit picky I know but I have nothing better to do until we go away this evening.

 

Andy

 

[breakaleg]

Hi All,

I have two six kilo gaslows, the remote filler is just inside the gas locker but I have not been challenged when filling up, I done this yesterday with one empty cylinder and the bill was £4.90 I felt embarrassed paying that. lol

I use an app called fill pg on android this app updates sometimes three times a day and seems to be pretty accurate and includes prices and access to route planning however it sometimes takes you to the countrywide sites where you need to be registered and have a key to access the gas, these sites are however unmanned and hold your credit card details and payment is taken automatically I beleive, but no one to question what you are filling up.

having refillable cylinders was the best thing ever for me, having a disability and never having to struggle getting them in and out of the gas locker was nigh on impossible.

Pete

[Accipiter Nisus]

It's entirely possible that gas could be spilt in a gas locker for any number of reasons. That is why they are sealed from the rest of the van, metal lined and have large drains at the lowest point to allow spilt gas to quickly escape.

 

Clearly there are differing views as to the safety of directly filling bottles secured in the gas locker. Since Gaslow, who I take to be a reputable company, sell their R67 Direct Fill together with a stand alone filler adaptor, I assume this an acceptable practice.

 

This does though appear to be something of a grey area and what I can't get a handle on generally, is whether others who use this method have encountered resistance from forecourt staff.

 

Thanks for your input breakaleg. It sounds as though this has not been a problem for you, and thanks for the tip regarding the FillLPG app which I've now downloaded.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I think the answer to your question is that the external fill point reduces the risk that you may be challenged by forecourt staff over filling a direct fill cylinder. That suggests to me that you have three options: A install direct fill and just accept that if challenged you will have to seek an alternative source, B install as above but seek to obtain a direct fill cylinder that you can convert to external fill if that proves necessary/desirable, C install the external fill variety from the outset, and eliminate risks A and B.

 

The problem, I suspect, is that staff at different filling stations, in different countries, will have differing instructions, and differing levels of diligence - so whether or not a direct fill cylinder will cause you a problem at any filling station you chance to visit is completely unpredictable, though it is probable at some-time, some-where.

[keninpalamos]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-06-07 3:58 PM

 

What a connection Mess running on gas whit a refill. I run whit two Bp light bottles now downsised to 10 klg each. Running on 20 kg propane and a spare one or two depending where you go. Spare me the hassle you described. Apart from the electrical power connections you have on the UK camp sites.

Ah! BP Would that British Petroleum or Belgium Petroleum Monique? For Mess read choice.

[keninpalamos]

TheSearles - 2017-06-07 6:30 PM

 

..... and a supplementary question from which you will be able to tell how green I am. How do you know when the gas is getting low other than the obvious?

lots of reasons for having re-fillable bottles and tanks. Here's a couple. In the UK it's cheaper and in some cases a lot cheaper. See Camping gas prices Another. Going form country to country or touring would mean carirying lots of different exchange bottles, connectors or regulators, what a mess, and how do you know a refill is getting low? Some have gauges to tell you you are getting low. Admittedly they have not been very good but later ones are improving. As for my refillables, I look at them just like you can tell it's time to order another beer. Mine are transparent so I can see how much gas I have left. Hope that helps

[Accipiter Nisus]

In reply to your post Brian, I can't argue with your logic and I am of course aware of the options open to me, but that wasn't the question. It seems that to connect a filler directly to a refillable bottle is perfectly legal and safe, otherwise reputable companies wouldn't sell this kind of hardware, but the industry supplying LPG at the pump is not happy about the practice. In light of this anomaly, the question I was asking is: what is the experience of others filling bottles directly in this way on the garage forecourt. i.e. filling while secured in the gas locker.

 

It appears from this post that either very few motorhome owners do this, or for some reason or other they're reluctant to talk about it.

 

So to distil the question further; has anyone out there any experience of filling bottles as described?

[keninpalamos]

Accipiter Nisus - 2017-06-10 10:58 AM

 

In reply to your post Brian, I can't argue with your logic and I am of course aware of the options open to me, but that wasn't the question. It seems that to connect a filler directly to a refillable bottle is perfectly legal and safe, otherwise reputable companies wouldn't sell this kind of hardware, but the industry supplying LPG at the pump is not happy about the practice. In light of this anomaly, the question I was asking is: what is the experience of others filling bottles directly in this way on the garage forecourt. i.e. filling while secured in the gas locker.

 

It appears from this post that either very few motorhome owners do this, or for some reason or other they're reluctant to talk about it.

 

So to distil the question further; has anyone out there any experience of filling bottles as described?

Reluctant? , see my first post on the this thread. It's just below yours ??

[keninpalamos]

Keithl - 2017-06-03 10:49 PM

 

flyboyprowler - 2017-06-03 5:51 PM

 

I appreciate that this is too big for your van but it would be a good price and maybe even cheaper for the smaller version.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaslow-Refillable-gas-system-for-motorhome-/112422827521?hash=item1a2cec3601:g:BIgAAOSwlMFZKy~f

 

flyboyprowler - 2017-06-03 10:35 PM

 

Or maybe this which is the right size, I think?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaslow-Refillable-gas-system-for-motorhome-/112422827521?hash=item1a2cec3601:g:BIgAAOSwlMFZKy~f

 

But they're both the same item!

obvious why the two links were the same. I would need two Gaslow 2.7 kg bottles which hold 4.6 litres each instead of my small Safefill which holds 9.5litres and is light wieght and just fits the Autosleeper gas locker. And having to load into the gas locker from the inside of the van ( no access to the locker from the outside) being in a plastic casing there is less chance of damaging any cabinet work which I have just renovated.

[Derek Uzzell]

Accipiter Nisus - 2017-06-10 10:58 AM

 

In reply to your post Brian, I can't argue with your logic and I am of course aware of the options open to me, but that wasn't the question. It seems that to connect a filler directly to a refillable bottle is perfectly legal and safe, otherwise reputable companies wouldn't sell this kind of hardware, but the industry supplying LPG at the pump is not happy about the practice. In light of this anomaly, the question I was asking is: what is the experience of others filling bottles directly in this way on the garage forecourt. i.e. filling while secured in the gas locker.

 

It appears from this post that either very few motorhome owners do this, or for some reason or other they're reluctant to talk about it.

 

So to distil the question further; has anyone out there any experience of filling bottles as described?

 

About 15 years ago a company called MTH Autogas were widely marketing composite-construction gas-bottles (photo attached) for user-refilling. These had no ‘safety’ features (ie. no 80% shut-off valve or non-return valve) and, although the contents-level of the LPG within the bottle was visible, care needed to be taken when refilling them. They were best avoided by dim-wits, but (to the best of my knowledge) no ‘A&E’ accidents resulted from their use. I own such a bottle and I’ve refilled it in the UK and abroad for many years. I was never refused from doing this, though it has to be said that there have been ‘moments’ during the refilling process itself!

 

I find it difficult to understand why you are so concerned about other people’s gas-bottle filling practices. I’m certain that some forum members will have refilled Calor bottles with autogas, but I wouldn’t expect them to necessarily volunteer that information or own up to doing this if asked. Why should they as they know the practice conflicts with regulations? The likelihood is that the majority of forum members using user-refillable bottles have a system with a remote filling-point, so they won’t be in a position to comment about ‘direct filling’ based on practical experience, and those forum members (like me) who do direct-fill may be so few in number that their feedback will be statistically of little value.

 

Brian Kirby has accurately summarised the situation (and your options) and - as is advised generally - a permanently-fitted system with a external refilling-point will be potentially less 'controversial’ than the alternatives when it comes to refilling. I would have thought there is no real argument over that view, but there’s nothing to prevent you taking the ‘direct fill’ approach if you so choose.

[StuartO]

I agree with Derek and Brian.  The expedient course would be to fit modern, safety-equipped, refillables with an external filling point and, given the relatively low cost in the overall costs of motorhoming, enjoy good and reliable service, free from anxiety about whether this or that garage will allow you to refill. 

 

Or you can dig your heels in and do it your way, maybe on principle, or do it on the cheap, taking whatever risks that go with that approach.  Just make sure you understand the risks and take appropriate steps to minimise them.

 

[stvekay]

I have been refused a fill at Morrisons(, I believe all Morrisons ban this type of fill). and once on a motorway in France. Otherwise I have not had any problems. I have a fixed installation in a locker.

 

Regards

 

Steve K

[Barryd999]

I think there was something about Morrisons refusing fills but I am sure I saw a thread somewhere the other day saying that was now not the case.

 

As regards the external vs internal filler. There was a massive long thread about this a few years ago on Motorhome Facts (cant find it now) and I think it made the other forums. I think there was a big fire at a station in France which caused a bit of knee jerk reaction from some of the fuel outlets and of course on the forums. I think Gaslow themselves even got involved and people were going out getting safety certificates, sticking Autogas stickers on their vans, all sorts. The usual stuff.

 

It is a fact that more people have been refused with internal fillers than external though but generally 9 times out of 10 I think you should have no problems with either. I have however on several occasions as a long term user if Gaslow and a "part timer" if you like had a bit of argy bargy with French attendants who refused to turn the LPG on until they saw the side filler which I have. So you pays yer money etc.

 

As for how do you tell what you have left. Well the good thing about refilables is you just keep topping them up when you see a station. Generally after two or three weeks ill start looking for one but at the risk of sounding like a know it all I can tell you usually within half a litre how much is in the tank just by our usage which we know so well now I Can calculate on a daily or weekly basis just by the time of year and where we are.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Barryd999 - 2017-06-16 11:46 AM

 

I think there was something about Morrisons refusing fills but I am sure I saw a thread somewhere the other day saying that was now not the case.

 

As regards the external vs internal filler. There was a massive long thread about this a few years ago on Motorhome Facts (cant find it now) and I think it made the other forums. I think there was a big fire at a station in France which caused a bit of knee jerk reaction from some of the fuel outlets and of course on the forums. I think Gaslow themselves even got involved and people were going out getting safety certificates, sticking Autogas stickers on their vans, all sorts. The usual stuff.

 

It is a fact that more people have been refused with internal fillers than external though but generally 9 times out of 10 I think you should have no problems with either. I have however on several occasions as a long term user if Gaslow and a "part timer" if you like had a bit of argy bargy with French attendants who refused to turn the LPG on until they saw the side filler which I have. So you pays yer money etc.

 

As for how do you tell what you have left. Well the good thing about refilables is you just keep topping them up when you see a station. Generally after two or three weeks ill start looking for one but at the risk of sounding like a know it all I can tell you usually within half a litre how much is in the tank just by our usage which we know so well now I Can calculate on a daily or weekly basis just by the time of year and where we are.

 

 

Forum discussions relating to the ‘Morrisons’ refilling ban (apparently now rescinded) can be found among the threads in the list provided by the following link (This is why the forum has a SEARCH feature ;-) )

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=morrisons&author=&days=&Submit=Search

 

This 2013 forum thread refers to an autogas-related accident in France

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Re-fillables/32836/

 

but details about this are sparse and I don’t think it’s going to affect Accipiter Nisus’s decision-making.

 

Regarding the MotorHomeFacts lengthy thread a few years back, I’m guessing it was this 769-postings beauty beginning in early-2011 and finishing in mid-2013.

 

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/145-lpg-gas/80341-not-allowed-refill-lpg-south-eastern-france.html

[stvekay]

Thanks for info re Morrisons. It was a year or so ago that they refused us, and I had not heard of an update.

 

Steve K