RFC7 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Hi All, I have a 2015 Hymer Exsis i588 which I have owned since May 1st 2017. The Hymer was originally purchased new in Germany and registered in the UK on January 1st 2016. I am having problems with rapid draining of the main battery over night even with everything turned off, when I hook up the shore power lead the battery shows a full charge after just a couple of hours, but then drops like a stone on the built in Hymer battery indicator above the side door. Everything points to 'Its time time to replace the battery', and I am perfectly happy to do that, however, wiser people than I claim the battery should be good for another couple of years !! so is there another problem that needs investigating? If not I would appreciate any advice on the best UK replacement battery to buy, the present one is the original as supplied from new in Germany, with very little info on the top to provide guidance as to the correct replacement. Regards RFC7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I'm very happy with Lion Batteries from ECP when bought with their 25-30% off discount codes for which you need to use click and collect http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/car-electrics-and-car-lighting/electrical/car-battery/?444770191&&cc5_1001 :-D (019 is the usual size - or slightly larger for 3 litre engine) Yours shouldn't need replacing yet. Have you tried disconnecting it and then seeing if it holds its charge? But if you replace it early you will have a new battery instead of a part worn one so not lost much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Starter batteries are supplied by Fiat (or Mercedes) with the chassis/cab/cowl unit which the motorhome manufacturer uses to build the MH and sometimes these will hang around in the yard for quite a while along the production pathway, so the battery is neglected. So starter batteries can fail early in their life. Batteries are also commonly the seat of a fault such as you describe (as you have worked out yourself) and relatively cheap to replace, compared with the cost of an autoelectrical investigation. So it can make sense to replace the battery as the first step. But buy a good quality battery rather than a cheap one. If you are paying much less than around £150 for a new starter you may well be buying a cheap one. Battery suppliers commonly sell a cheap one for about half the price, but get a proper heavy duty one. If you still have problems, then get an autoelectrician who has knowledge/experience of Hymer/Schaudt systems to investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 For some reason MH starter batteries seem to discharge faster than a base vehicle, but yours is excessive. As John says, disconnect or remove and charge up and see how long it holds charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Unlikely your Hymer (we are Hymer/Burstner/Detleffs, etc. electrical specialists) has a current drain issue within the vehicle. The basis for saying this is that sort of rapid drain would need a fairly hefty current to drop a battery that fast. If it was some device in the vehicle malfunctioning, you would probably notice something getting hot/smoking!! We agree with Stuart, the Starter battery can get neglected and it only needs to fully discharge once to suffer massively shortened life, hence all the advice to keep them near full charge whenever practical. We also agree with Stuart that a quality Starter battery is key and the factory fit original can typically last 8 years. A budget battery is inferior like you would not believe, and 'aftter market' replacements are often well past their best before 3 years are up. However, you don't need to spend £150 to get one of the best batteries. A Motorhome Starter battery is used very differently to a Car Starter battery, so the requirements are different to that of a Car. A car tends to be used every few days, a Motorhome can stand idle for weeks, which may result in the Starter battery discharging quite deeply before the Alternator charges it back up. If a quality Starter battery is in perfect condition, just partially discharged, it will easily start a Motorhome engine when the voltage is as low as 12.3v, or near 50% discharged. So many people don't realise how low the Starter battery has discharged, because it still starts the engine easily. It is only as the battery ages : develops internal corrosion, Plate damage, etc that they then struggle to start the engine at low volts. Most Motorhome Starter Batteries are not designed to discharge down to such low volts for long periods of time. When the battery does get used after many weeks idle, they usually need a long drive to bring them back to full charge, like 2 - 3 hours. But because many don't realise how discharged they are, they may not be driven far enough to bring them back to full. So, we think, the best Motorhome Starter battery is a Starter Battery that is specifically designed for deeper discharges as well as Starting Engines. The Bosch L5/Varta LFD90 has cranking power (1,000amps SAE/800CCA) greater than most factory fit Starter batteries, especially when the temperatures drop, like on a freezing morning in the middle of January. Yet it is a specialist Deep Discharge Dual purpose battery. So, while you shouldn't let it discharge below the ideal, it will tolerate an occasional discharge so only 30% capacity remains, better than any pure Starter battery. They are only £91 from Tayna batteries, yet contain Powerframe technology that will allow the battery to outperform almost any other battery in the up to £150 bracket, right to end of life. The Powerframe technology means they are better Starter battery than even the Factory fit items, but will also deep discharge and recharge faster than almost any other similar battery. They are 'Absolutely' maintenance free, no fluid loss at all. Not even when things get tough. The Bosch L5/Varta LFD90 is the same size usually fitted by Fiat, Mercedes and many newer Renaults from around 1998 to current production. The Bosch version (identical specs just different labels) normally has a 5 year warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 However, having said all the above and rereading your Post I wonder if you charging the Starter battery for long enough? You write that it comes up to full charge after a couple of hours, yet that would be impossible on most Hymers if it has discharged low? On Hymers with the likes of a Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 99, the Starter battery will only get 1 - 2 amps of charge, 6 amps at the absolute max on the latest Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 220, so you would need to charge it for around two to four days to reach full charge if it has discharged 'flat'. I am guessing that you are using the Voltmeters battery charging voltage as your guide to the 'State of Charge' indicator? By that I mean you are relying solely on the voltmeter to estimate the battery charge state, yet the minute you start the engine, the Alternator/Mains charger will start putting 14.4v into your batteries and that is what the Voltmeter will display, even though the real battery voltage may still be only 11.9v. If you straight away cut the engine the Alternator will stop charging and the 'voltage at the battery' will slowly return to 11.9v. A Voltmeter can only display the voltage at the battery, not always the 'real' battery voltage. If some charging device has raised the voltage at the battery terminals to 14v to charge it, that is the voltage the meter will show. Once a battery is being charged by a charging system whether that is Solar, Alternator, Mains or Efoy all the Voltmeter will ever be able to show is that chargers voltage of 14.4v or whatever. Try charging it for 2 - 4 days and then retest? Many people don't realise how long it can take to charge a battery. I am guessing you might apply the same logic you apply to the Starter battery, to your habitation batteries? If so have a read of our webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/how-does-a-charger-work.php The page shows how chargers work and how changing the load on them can dramatically change the charge time. For example adding a second battery to some Hymers can extend the charging time not from two fold, but ten fold. Adding a second battery can result in some habitation battery banks on some Motorhomes going from fully charged in 6 hours to taking 60 hours. Some Motorhome charging systems won't ever fully charge an enlarged battery bank once the bank ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC7 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 Thank you for your contributions towards my battery situation, I am certainly wiser now having read John52 and Stuarto's comments regarding battery charging, a very interesting article. Following this I decided to opt for a new battery and as suggested by John52 checked out Europarts, I went for the Bosch S5 100 amp unit which carries a 5 year guarantee @ £224.99 !! then I spotted the special week-end discount code, -30%, RESULT now £150.00, saving £74.99 including (wait for it) same day delivery !!! I ordered the battery at 10.25 this morning, it was delivered @ 12.36, that is service way beyond the norm, and the delivery driver actually placed it in my Motor home. So that's all the good news.... The bad news is, it appears to have all been a complete waste of time and money, because after fitting the new battery the Hymer voltage level reading was still at 11v as soon as I hooked up the shore power lead, shortly afterwards it showed 12v plus. I appreciate the new battery may not have been fully charged on arrival so I now plan to leave it on mains power for the week-end and check it again after 48hrs. QUESTION: This starter battery drainage problem roughly coincided with my adding a second leisure battery ! any comments out there as to whether there is any link here to my main starter battery problem? Last question: I would like to know what electrical systems are operating in the background when the ignition is off, which includes the fridge freezer and Truma unit also being off. (haven't checked yet but the latter may be gas only) Regards RFC7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Another customer recently went to Euro for a battery and it arrived with only 12.2v, so pretty much past it before it had even been used. 11v is not a battery that is going to be much good as a Bosch/Varta Powerframe battery will stay above 12.5v for 6 months, so one down at 11v isn't a great start. I would suggest you don't charge it but check it's voltage with a meter and get it back to Euro for a refund? If it was down at 11v when it arrived it really will be badly damaged. If you have been seeing 'a fully charged battery' then the Schaudt voltmeter is likely to be working? £150 for a battery that is pretty much identical to Taynas LFD90 at £92 doesn't seem the best buy either? We suggest Tayna because they are a specialist battery supplier and the stock isn't hugel so you can be pretty sure the battery you buy won't already be a goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agaric Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 That's very expensive for that battery, Tayna are selling the self same battery for £101 with delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 There is a reason why I suggested offboard charging, it is to see if there is a problem with onboard charger discharge or the onboard voltage meter. You seem to be relying on your onboard meter, these have been known to be inacurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 John52 - 2017-07-07 6:27 AM I'm very happy with Lion Batteries from ECP when bought with their 25-30% off discount codes for which you need to use click and collect http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/car-electrics-and-car-lighting/electrical/car-battery/?444770191&&cc5_1001 :-D (019 is the usual size - or slightly larger for 3 litre engine) Yours shouldn't need replacing yet. Have you tried disconnecting it and then seeing if it holds its charge? But if you replace it early you will have a new battery instead of a part worn one so not lost much. I can only repeat that I'm very happy with the Lion Batteries from ECP The 100 amp one I recommended comes out at £97.33 with their current discount code The 100 amp one with a Bosch label comes out at £150 so I suspect they don't sell so many and it could be old stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Agaric - 2017-07-07 7:34 PM Tayna are selling the self same battery for £101 with delivery. Could you post a link to that price please? When I look at their website I get £119.17 https://www.tayna.co.uk/S5-013-Bosch-Car-Battery-Type-019-S5013-P9702.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 John52 As you rightly say, Tayna is currently advertising the Bosch S5 019-size battery for £119.17 (including delivery). However, Tayna is advertising Varta’s LFD90 battery (also 019-size) for £101.13 (including delivery) https://www.tayna.co.uk/LFD90-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-930090080-P3638.html which suggests that it may be the latter battery that Agaric was referring to. Euro Car Parts sales policy seems to be to offer batteries at an elevated base-price to which a ‘discount’ can be applied. But even after the discount, the prices generally tend to be uncompetitive. http://www.eurocarparts.com/019-car-batteries Tayna, on the other hand, advertise a battery’s price and that’s it. https://www.tayna.co.uk/019-Car-Batteries-G11.html Either Bosch’s S5 battery or Varta’s (slightly cheaper) “Silver Dynamic” equivalent - both with a 5-year warranty - would have been a good choice for RFC7, though Allan (aandncaravan) argues persuasively that Varta's LFD90 ‘dual purpose’ battery would be even more suitable as a motorhome's starter-battery. If I had been in RFC7’s position I would have followed Allan’s advice and opted for the Varta LFD90. In my case I would have sourced the LFD90 from Battery Megastore, which is quite near to where I live and, consequently, would allow me to collect the battery (saving the delivery charge), inspect it and carry out a voltage-check before accepting it. This is the procedure I’ve followed in the past. I’ve been driving since 1960 and owned quite a few vehicles, and I’ve needed to replace batteries on a number of them. But I’ve never replaced enough batteries of a particular make/type to allow me to say that one make is superior (or inferior) to another and thus feel able to offer a positive (or negative) recommendation. Allan is in a position to offer such advice, as he deals with lots of vehicles/batteries and has expert practical knowledge as a result. I’ve no hands-on experience of “Lion” batteries. There are a few on-line comments about them (example here) https://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/474306-lion-batteries.html but the advice is generally mixed. Your statement “...I'm very happy with the Lion Batteries from ECP” suggests that you have obtained a significant number of Lion batteries from the company. Is that indeed the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stvekay Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Here is a copy of letters I wrote to Tanya. I am disappointed not to have received a reply from my 2nd letter sent 2nd of June. Would have been nice to hear from them saying everything is OK or not. I recently purchased 3 batteries from you 2 ellescol leisure and one Varta dual purpose. I had them fitted to my motor home 10 days after receiving them. The Elescol batteries were reading 12.7 on my interior meter, however the varta was only reading 12.4. I connected to electric hook up and after 24 hours the Elescol read 13.1 after an hour. And gradually ended up at 12.8. the Varta dropped back to 12.4. On the advice of my mechanic I ran the engine for 20 minutes, the Varta then read 12.8 after 1 hour but after 3 hours dropped back to 12.4. I am about to go away on a trip so the van will have a good run out several hundred miles over a 2 week period so I will be able to monitor the battery more closely. Your comments would be appreciated. I just thought I would express my concern at this point in time. We tend to use the van fairly regularly, it also has a solar panel fitted, occasionally it may not be used for 3 or 4 weeks, could you advise how often I should connect the van to electric in order to charge the batteries. Further to my letter of the 5/2/2017 regarding the three batteries that were purchased from you, I have found that after running the van on fairly long trips, the Elescol batteries are holding up fine. However the Varta LD90 after a24 to 36 hours has dropped I would be grateful for your comments please. to 12.6 on internal meter and after 3 to 4 days drops to 12.4 where it seems to remain, The van has a brand new alternator. I would be grateful for your comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Steve I’m guessing you are referring to “Elecsol”-branded batteries https://www.tayna.co.uk/Elecsol-Batteries As you’ll see from the above link the UK retailer for Elecsol batteries ceased trading towards the end of 2013. So if you obtained Elecsol batteries in early-2017, there’s every likelihood they were at least 3 years old before you got them. Taking battery voltage readouts needs care (and some background knowledge) to obtain representative results. Tayna are battery vendors and may be prepared to respond to simple questions that can be answered simply and briefly. That’s not so with your questions and (I hesitate to say this) I’m not too surprised you’ve not received a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stvekay Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Sorry not made it clear it was an LFD 90 Varta that I used for the engine. I also got a bit muddled it was Enduroline EXV110 leisure. I would have expected the courtesy of a reply, even to say we don't know the answer, which to be honest I would have expected them have some knowledge of what to expect from their products. Perhaps my expectations are too high. Regards Steve K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Stvekay, We have not come across a battery retailer that does know the technology of what they sell. Even when some do have a little knowledge, all too often they steer a customer towards the range with the highest profit margin, not necessarily the best batteries. First of all a 'new' battery will never be at the batteries usual resting voltage. The production techniques, the delay from Production to sale and the fact a battery reaches it's peak only after several discharge/recharge cycles means a battery can take a month of use to reach it's true SOC voltage. However, your 12.4v seems quite low?. A new battery is likely to be around 75% of it's resting voltage, The way a Starter battery is maintained in a Motorhome by different manufacturers causes a lot of confusion as the solutions they implement can be be varied. Generally, most Motorhome chargers are NOT configured to charge up a Starter battery, just maintain it. As stated above in an earlier post the Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 99, fitted in more Motorhomes Worldwide than any other unit, only 'charges' at 1 - 2 amps, so will take a while to fully charge up a low Starter battery. If the battery is 50% charged at 12.4v, that is at least a 48hour charge time. Yet another unit from the same manufacturer, the EBL 220, will apply 6 amps, so different strategies even from the same Electronics manufacturer. See our Schaudt Elektroblock page if you want to know more info on how these units work : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/schaudt-elektroblock.php Some of the Sargent EC range don't 'charge' the Starter battery at all, only intervene when the battery gets down below 12.4v. All they do is stop it going completely flat, not maintain at 'full charge'. The Sargent website states : "Smart Charge”, when the motorhome is on 230V hook-up, the Starter battery is monitored but not charged while its voltage is 12.4V or higher. If the starter-battery’s voltage drops below 12.4V, the motorhome’s battery-charger should switch its output from the leisure-battery (the default for charging) to the starter-battery and charge this for 4 hours at 13.6V/14.4V. The battery-charger should then revert to charging the leisure-battery for 4 hours while monitoring the starter-battery’s voltage". 12.4v is a 50% discharge modern battery. This approach relies upon the owner using the vehicle regularly, obviously the best approach, and has the benefit of extending Starter battery life if this is done. But if the owner relies totally on long term Mains EHU to maintain the Starter battery, then exceptionally short Starter battery life may result from Sulphation. More detail and a warning about potential Starter battery degradation issues can be found on our Sargent page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/sargent.php If you have a Battery Master style device 'looking after your Starter battery', unless it is the Sterling based unit, you might have to wait weeks for a Starter battery to charge fully. The Battery Master is only designed to maintain a battery, not charge it from low. The other issue that also confuses things is also having discharged (or tired) Habitation batteries at the same time as you are asking for the Starter battery to be fully charged. This impacts events, even on those units that do put a 'proper' charge into the Starter battery, If the charger voltage output is reduced, say down from 14.3v to 13.2v because of the load imposed by the Habitation batteries the Starter battery charging will be affected until the habitation batteries are 'full' and the volts rise. This is irrespective of what it might say in the manuals on 'Priority'. I don't understand why your mechanic said to run the engine to charge the battery because he should have known it would take hours of driving to charge it up from 12.4v?. So if anyone buys a Starter battery and expects the Motorhome Charger to fully charge it, then some Motorhomes will and some won't. Most won't do it very quickly. Better to fully charge it on a Car based battery charger before you fit it, other wise you might be getting off to a very bad 'Start'? We have no connection with Tayna of any sort, but they are based in Abergele, North Wales and close to one of the Caravan sites we work out of when people come to us to have any work done, see this webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/north-wales.php We therefore receive Tayna supplied batteries on a regular basis. However, we don't generally buy them, the customer makes a visit on the way to us. Or like the two customers at the end of June, we drove the customer down and they paiid for the batteries directly, we just acted as a Taxi. The costs of the Vartas are £91.68 or something each battery and the batteries always 'fully' charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stvekay Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Thanks for that,. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC7 Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 Well there is certainly a mind of information out there when you are stuck for any answer to a problem ! Who ever thought up the advent of social media forums should have been Knighted or made a Dame !! Returning to my original question in this 16 responce thread, rightly or wrongly I except I was a little hasty in selecting the Bosch S5 main engine replacement battery, I now know that had I acted on the advice given, I would have been aware that in fact I did not need a replacement battery! It would appear that maybe the problem lies in the on-board (Hymer Exsis i588) voltage display panel? Test prognosis. When the shore power mains cable is hooked up to the motorhome, both Leisure and the new ignition battery readings show 12.5 volts, if I disconnect the mains power lead the ignition battery reading immediately drops to 11 volts with a flashing red triangle warning light, the leisure battery reading remains at 12.5 v, if I put the mains power back on both readings again show 12.5 volts. I then proceeded to check each battery voltage independently using a (top quality) volt meter, all three batteries gave a reading of 12.5 volts or slightly over. So I am again dependant on the knowledge and skill set of probably Allan alias aandncaravan or ANother to hopefully give me guidance towards the next move in solving this dilemma. Thank you for all of your contributions to date. HELP !! Regards RFC7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Stvekay, Because the LFD90 is stable once it gets to 12.4v, that might suggest there isn't a battery fault but maybe a meter reading issue? A battery issue is more likely to suffer a continual decline. I wonder if there is a voltage drop caused by the Cab Earth straps or some other problem? I note that you list you have had a new Alternator fitted? These can be a casualty with Earth strap issues, especially if the batteries also get tired? When the Alternator failed did the Garage renew the Earth straps or test for voltage drop? It might be worth you taking a direct reading from the battery terminals. If that shows a different higher voltage, then have a look at the section on 'trouble shooting Earth Strap issues' at the bottom of our "add a second battery?" webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/add-a-second-battery.php May I suggest you don't ask the Enduroline EXV110 leisure batteries to work much after about 2 years? RFC7 so we have a full picture, please can you tell us the voltage of the old Starter battery? Did the old battery also record 11v when off EHU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-07-09 8:11 AM John52 As you rightly say, Tayna is currently advertising the Bosch S5 019-size battery for £119.17 (including delivery). However, Tayna is advertising Varta’s LFD90 battery (also 019-size) for £101.13 (including delivery) https://www.tayna.co.uk/LFD90-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-930090080-P3638.html which suggests that it may be the latter battery that Agaric was referring to. Euro Car Parts sales policy seems to be to offer batteries at an elevated base-price to which a ‘discount’ can be applied. But even after the discount, the prices generally tend to be uncompetitive. http://www.eurocarparts.com/019-car-batteries Tayna, on the other hand, advertise a battery’s price and that’s it. https://www.tayna.co.uk/019-Car-Batteries-G11.html Either Bosch’s S5 battery or Varta’s (slightly cheaper) “Silver Dynamic” equivalent - both with a 5-year warranty - would have been a good choice for RFC7, though Allan (aandncaravan) argues persuasively that Varta's LFD90 ‘dual purpose’ battery would be even more suitable as a motorhome's starter-battery. If I had been in RFC7’s position I would have followed Allan’s advice and opted for the Varta LFD90. In my case I would have sourced the LFD90 from Battery Megastore, which is quite near to where I live and, consequently, would allow me to collect the battery (saving the delivery charge), inspect it and carry out a voltage-check before accepting it. This is the procedure I’ve followed in the past. I’ve been driving since 1960 and owned quite a few vehicles, and I’ve needed to replace batteries on a number of them. But I’ve never replaced enough batteries of a particular make/type to allow me to say that one make is superior (or inferior) to another and thus feel able to offer a positive (or negative) recommendation. Allan is in a position to offer such advice, as he deals with lots of vehicles/batteries and has expert practical knowledge as a result. I’ve no hands-on experience of “Lion” batteries. There are a few on-line comments about them (example here) https://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/474306-lion-batteries.html but the advice is generally mixed. Your statement “...I'm very happy with the Lion Batteries from ECP” suggests that you have obtained a significant number of Lion batteries from the company. Is that indeed the case? No, I've only got 2 Lion Batteries. I haven't done proper tests of all the batteries on the market (whio has) so go by mainly by rated capacity, CCA, and price. Euro Car Parts, like a lot of big companies, operate differential pricing designed to charge each customer the most they will pay. I suppose someone who turns up at the counter wanting a battery tends to want it straight away, and may not have seen internet prices, so probably expects to pay the full price they see in other retail shops. Wheras someone shopping on the internet has looked around and demands a cheaper price. Hence the 2 tier pricing. If Tanya batteries are only an internet retailer presumably all their prices have to be internet level. I live only a couple of miles from an ECP store, so click and collect is best for me. When you buy their own brands Lion Batteries / Crossland Filters / Eicher Brakes with at least 25% online discount they seem good value to me, so thats what I recommend if asked. Perhaps they would rather sell their own brand, but keep the others for people who will only buy a well advertised brand. Its not my fault if someone ignores my advice and buys a different battery. But perhaps Hymer owners are happy to pay over the odds for a German label . Reassuringly Expensive etc ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 John, The Lion is not a Euro Car parts own brand. It tends to be, like most of the Asian budgets, bought in by a company as a bottom of the price range battery. During our early days we cut open a fair few Lion batteries , as we did lots of batteries, and whereas the quality of construction, life time, durability, low failure rate, retention of Paste, Capacity of the Plates over time, shorted Cells, Fluid loss, etc put the Exide G80 near the top, the Lion was at the opposite end of the scale. As were ALL the 'budget 110Ah'. When our Battery Technology page first got picked up by the Forums and caused quite a stir (back I think about 2013?) we were approached by a battery retailer 'to promote their batteries' and in return offered discount rates enjoyed by the biggest battery sellers, even if we only sold a few batteries. Those discounts offered were such that a Lion 110Ah would have cost us less than £30 to buy in. That probably gives you some idea of what you are recommending to others? We don't sell any batteries, because we want to be as impartial as we can on the battery advice we give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC7 Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 The original starter battery, which I now know did not need replacing, gives off a 12.55 volt reading when bench tested with a volt meter. I other words, the original problem which made me think I had a bad battery was in fact not the case, the lower voltage reading is still showing on the Hymer on board volt meter regardless of which battery is connected, i.e. 11 volts plus the warning triangle. As soon as I hook up the mains power lead again, the on board voltage meter reads 12.5 volts on both the ignition battery and both leisure batteries. At least I now have peace of mind that I have a new starter battery, and one good spare in the barn. But I do need to solve this mystery, any ideas ? Regards RFC7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 The Starter battery 'sense' for the voltmeter is taken from the Fridge Supply cable which runs from the Starter battery to the EBL. If there is a problem in this circuit it will read read low volts. Is it an EBL 119 or EBL 29?? When you connect EHU, the mains charger supplies both batteries with give or take around 14v, so that is what you should see at both batteries. Not sure why you are only seeing 12.5v? That the Starter battery volts are rising suggests the charger is working, but either at low output or else is being very heavily loaded. Make sure the fridge is turned to off. Then on or near the Starter battery you should find 3 fuses, a 2a, 20a and 50amp or something like that as they get swapped for other values over time. The Yellow 20a is the fuse that supplies the 14.4v Alternator power to the EBL to run through to the Fridge, this usually goes in through the Pins on Block 2 (depending on the EBL fitted in your vehicle). Power usually goes out to the Fridge on Block 1. Once it gets inside the EBL a takeoff is used to supply the volt meter. So we are looking for a poor connection/burnt contact somewhere on this cable from the EBL to the Starter battery. Start by removing the 20a Yellow fuse and check carefully for corrosion/overheating. If any tarnishing at all, replace it with a quality item, definitely not one from Euro Car Parts their fuses are poor quality. This fuse can run at 17amps on some Fridge/Freezers, which is right near the limit so it must be a quality one or it just melts into the Fuseholder. Next go to the EBL and pull the 4 pin and 5 pin connectors and check for burnt pins/poor connection, like the photo. Let us know what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 John52 - 2017-07-09 7:16 PM ...If Tanya batteries are only an internet retailer presumably all their prices have to be internet level... Tayna is based at Abergele (as Allan has said above) in a good-sized warehouse and their opening hours are 8:30am-5pm Monday to Friday and 8:30-1pm Saturday. Although Tayna is a prominent on-line retailer of vehicle batteries, people can visit Tayna’s premises if they so wish (just as with Battery Megastore and Euro Car Parts). As I observed above, ECP’s pricing policy differs from Battery Megastore’s and Tayna’s (though I note that the latter has a ‘promo code’ scheme) https://www.tayna.co.uk/newsletter and this policy has apparently resulted in RFC7 paying £150 for a Bosch S5 battery (bought on-line from ECP) that is advertised for on-line purchase by Tayna for £119.17 including delivery. As a quick GOOGLE-search on “Bosch S5 100Ah” immediately identifies a range of asking-prices for the Bosch product https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=bosch+s5+100ah with ECP’s being way highest, I find it difficult to understand why RFC7 chose to buy from ECP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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