StuartO Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 A question for Alan, but if anyone else knows the answer ..... EBL101 on a 2006 Hymer B674 was in storage recently for three weeks, sunny weather but the 12v power was switched off (or had tripped?) at the Control Panel. I normally leave the 12 v on during storage, which allows the solar panels to keep the batteries up but the MH was in a loacl garage compound and the mechanic had switched it off when he parked it up after some work. The electric step wouldn't work when I went to collect it until I switched the 12 volt power on, then they worked normally. The battery voltages were both just under 13 volts, consistent with no charge from the solar panels during storage. However I noticed that the battery capacity was showing only 1 AH and a "charge!" warning for the leisure battery was showing. Leisure battery is an Exide G80 two years old and no previous problems. When I got home I plugged in an EHU and 14.4 volts showed for the leisure battery (so the mains charger is working?) which had dropped to 13.8 volts 24 hours later (indicating a satisfactory level of charge?) still on EHU. The solar panel is showing a charge of 0.6 amps, which also consistent with a charged battery. But the capacity indication for the leisure battery remains at 1 AH and the charge warning is still present. Not done any further testing so far. What is happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I’m not able to assist much other than to say that the electric step behaviour is normal if the Elektroblock itself had been switched off then switched on again. After the Elektroblock has been switched off and on, the electric step will not operate until the 12v has been switched on once at the control panel. After that the 12v may be switched off and the electric step will continue to operate normally. My experience is with an Elektroblock 99 so there may be differences of course. Would the mechanic have disconnected the batteries and/or switched off the Electroblock to carry out the work mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 The MH was being re-waxoyled, so no reason to interfere with the electrics at all. They had two sessions on it, because they ran out of stuff, and on each occassion parked up and then switched off the 12 volts. I needed to leave it in their yard for unconnected reasons but I popped in a couple of times and on each occassion switch the 12 volts back on - and then mentioned that it should stay that way. Nothing unusual at this time. Night before I collected we had a big thunderstorm overnight, could that have thrown things I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I think if it were me I’d reset the Elektroblock – ie turn it off at the Electroblock switch then turn it on again, then turn on 12v at the control panel and check the various readings. No guarantees but it’s probably worth trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I had a similar issue and Alan said that the capacity indicator would "retrain" itself following EHU connection and, sure enough, it did over a few days. I can't find the post or would direct you to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Stuart, It is best practice to turn off the EBL using the Display/Control panel above the door when the vehicle is put away for more than a few days, especially on the LCD/DT xxx range as these can have up to a 1/4 amp standby draw. All charging of all forms, Alternator, mains, Solar will still take place with the Display/Control in the 'Off' position' on non UK built Motorhomes. Only the Sargent EC xxx, like the EC 328, require the unit to be left turned on so it can correctly allocate the charge. However, we advise never to turn off the EBL using the switch on the front of the EBL itself, always use the display/controller. On the Schaudt Elektroblock range, in fact every Continental built unit I can think of, there is no 'reset' feature. Only the latest EBL 30 and similar range fitted with poly fuses, will the fuses themselves be reset if overloaded, there is no beneficial effect of a reset to the control side like the display on non UK built Motorhomes, at least not pre 2016 that we have seen. Performing a 'Sargent style' reset on a German built van tends to do more harm than good. It works on the Sargent as these are software based, but non UK units are not. The symptoms you describe are of lost 'learned' values which usually only occur after someone has disconnected power to the EBL data store? Sometimes when doing Waxoyl work holes need to be drilled, maybe someone pulled the connectors (Block 2 being the most likely one?) out of the EBL to be 'safe'?. Or, possibly more likely, took the battery leads off? Suggest you go into the menu and re-enter the battery AH figure and everything should right itself within 2 weeks. Re-enter the AH figure even if it looks correct by making it 10Ah higher and setting it back to the real value, etc. Note : The German translation in the manual is confusing when it talks about 80% of the Habitation battery Ah figure. The EBL uses the 80% figure (so there is some margin), but you enter the full battery bank capacity as per the battery label C20 figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Very helpful, thank you. Still on EHU and still no change, so I will now reset the AH capacity through the menu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 The EBL 'relearns' by monitoring discharge and then normal recharge. So set the AH value and then put a light load on the battery for a couple of hours. It normally relearns within a few days but if the battery drain and recharge is limited it can take up to 2 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 I've reset the max AH figure via the menu as instructed and the display then showed "32?" as the AH figure, rather than "1" so it's clearly assuming half charge while it works out how much charge there is. The "Charge!" warning has gone too, so a step in the right direction. The voltage, still on EHU, are 13.8 starter and 13.0 leisure, which I think indicates that the mains charger has backed off after a full charge. Solar panels were charging at a low level consistent with a full charge. Interesting that charging continues even when the 12 volt services are switched off at the panel; I didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Stuart, 13v is too low for the Habitation battery when on EHU, it shouldn't drop below 13.8v on that age of EBL charger? Please can I suggest : 1. you disconnect 230v maybe by pressing the Mains RCD trip 'test' button, if you have one, or flick the RCD switch down to 'Off'. 2. After 20 secs. re-establish mains EHU. 3. Check the habitation voltage which should slowly climb to 14.3v and drop back to 13.8v after either 1 or 4 hours, depending on the charger PCB's Spec/age. Note it will drop back to 13.8v regardless of battery charge state (unless excessively discharged). It does not drop to 13.8v when the battery is fully charged as most think. Full Behaviour documented here : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/how-does-a-charger-work.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Something peculiar is happening and the plot thickens! I left the EHU on overnight and the 12 volt services powered on at the panel. This morning the voltages were 13.8 starter and 12.1 leisure! I powered the 12 volt down and switched the EHU off, then powered the 12 volts on again - and the voltages were 13.9 and 13.8 respectively. I then switched the EHU back on and the voltages increased to 14.3 and 14.4! Still showing only 0.1 amps of charge and "32 AH?" capacity. With the EHU off the solar charge was showing positive (but only 0.6 amps as I recall) and when I switched the EHU back on the solar charge backed off to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Further update: I put a load on (lights and a TV) with the EHU switched off and there was what I would regard as a normal response, i.e. the load was carried and the leisure battery voltage eventually dropped very slightly. Solar panel picked up a bigger charge rate. After a few minutes I switched the EHU back on, the battery voltages went up to 14.3/14.4, the overall charge rate to the leisure battery increased and the solar panel charge dropped back to 0.6 amps. The "Charge!" warning has gone. All seems to be settling down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 That is good it seems to be returning to normal, suggesting that they did indeed remove the battery leads at the Leisure battery. May I suggest that you put a 'notice' on the Habitation battery bank terminals suggesting that no one removes the battery terminals without first removing the fuse between the Solar Panel and the regulator, otherwise damage to the 12v connected devices can be caused? Because modern Solar Solutions are designed to connect to the Power Distribution/Controller Unit, they are generally hooked into the 12v backbone. If a spike occurs removing the battery terminals, it goes right through the 12v to every device in the Motorhome. Typically what occurs is that the Solar Panel is charging the 12v backbone, which then goes on to the battery. If the Load on the Solar regulator is high (so charging heavily) and the battery is suddenly taken out of circuit, the Solar regulator can be taken by surprise 'momentarily' outputting far too many volts, spiking the EBL Charger, Fridge, Heating, etc. Seen a few now, which is why we say on a Solar 'Hints and Tips' webpage to make sure no work is carried out on the 12v circuits with a warning on the battery to isolate the Solar first, see Item 1 here : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php Important NOT to remove the fuse between the Solar Reg and the Power Unit, just the one at the Solar Panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 The indications this morning are still that the system is settling down normally; still got a "64 AH?" indication of battery capacity but otherwise voltages and charge rates are what I would expect. Hopefully both leisure battery and solar charging system have survived whatever it was that disturbed things. I haven't checked with the garge whether they did anything to the electrics while the MH was in their yard but apart from switching off the 12 volt system at the panel (or it switching itself off) there is no evidence so far that anything was disconnected and the nature of the job, simply wire brushing and spraying with waxoyl underneath, would cause them to interfere with the electrics. The Elektroblok is tucked away and they would have no reason to go searching, nor any reason to open the outside locker where the leisure battery lives. So the cause of the system disturbance remains a mystery but at least it required no more than resetting the battery capacity setting on the menu. Could it have been triggered by the thunderstorm (which was exceptionally violent) have triggered it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 The follow up update....... The system did settle down but I continued to get strange voltage readings in that although on EHU and seemingly fully charged, the leisure battery showed only 13.0 volts and later as low as 12.7. As Alan keeps saying, the overwhelming cause of problems is that batteries are past their best so despite the fact that my Exide G80 leisure battery is only supposed to be two years old, I bought it from a fellow motohomer who had taken it out of his new MH to put a pair of another type in, so it might have had a hard life before it got to me - and we are about to set off on a long tour to Spain. So I decided to change the leisure battery. Taking the opportunity to go back to having a pair of them; the replacement Varta LFD90s arrive this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 I have bumped this thread to provide a further, and hopefully final, update because the diagnosis changed. I bought two new leisure batteries (Varta LFD90s) because there was uncertainty about the single existing one (a two year old Exide G80 gel) and I decided I might was well go back to having a pair of leisure batteries because we were going to Spain for the first time so I wanted to have a reliable basis for coping without an EHU. To cut a long story short the strange battery voltage readings I was getting were inconsistent and were never really explained. After installing the new Vartas the MH system settled down as it should and it was clear that both solar panels and the Electroblok's mains charger were working properly. The Electroblock also coped normally with the change of leisure battery capacity as I went back from one battery to a pair. Even before I installed the new Vartas, the MH did seem to be settling down in a normal way with the Exide, which also seemed to be a good and serviceable battery after all. In retrospect I think it was the violent thunderstorms we had which upset things, rather than either a battery or an Electroblok failure. Either way I feel confident to go to Spain, not least because I carry a spare Electroblok anyway! Quite how or why the Electroblok started showing what might have been spurious battery voltages remains a mystery except that after thunderstorm intervention maybe it does! Alan (of AandACaravans) was enormously helpful with his advice, despite convalescing from an operation, so many thanks Alan. I am now £200 odd lighter in the pocket but I do have a seemingly serviceable Exide G80 after all, which will be sidelined to become a shed lighting battery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrypartridge Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Alan helped me with problems I had with my solar charging. He is SO helpful and his knowledge is incredible. A terrific asset to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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