Bulletguy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Yet another increase on motorists. My tax was due yesterday and is now £245 for 12 months. Pretty crazy imo for a 2.5 Transit! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I SORN ours in November and get £70 back every year. You can also tax it monthly and stop it anytime but that was slightly more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Yes, the DVLA online system and no need to display a tax disc makes it easy to declare SORN and re-tax based on useage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Not sure where/how SORNing is relevant......or are you saying you run a zero rated VED vehicle for half the year? My VED used to be £215.....it's now gone up to £245.I thought others might have noticed the increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Up to 3500kg it has gone up every year last year it was £235. Mine hasn't changed, over 3500kg it has been £165 for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-10-01 5:42 PM Not sure where/how SORNing is relevant......or are you saying you run a zero rated VED vehicle for half the year? My VED used to be £215.....it's now gone up to £245.I thought others might have noticed the increase. £215 was the rate in 2011. It been going up pretty much every year. Last year was £235. You been counting? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-10-01 5:42 PM Not sure where/how SORNing is relevant......or are you saying you run a zero rated VED vehicle for half the year? My VED used to be £215.....it's now gone up to £245.I thought others might have noticed the increase. SORNing is relevant as it provides a simple way of reducing the annual cost of VED, if the MH is not needed every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Charles - 2017-10-01 1:47 PM I SORN ours in November and get £70 back every year. You can also tax it monthly and stop it anytime but that was slightly more expensive. A good way of wrecking you van, the worst thing you can do is to leave a van stationary for months. If we are not using our van I take it out for good drive every 3-4 weeks getting everything up to operating temperature. If I was buying a s/h van I would not buy a low mileage one too much risk of it been left standing around and needing expensive repair bill much prefer one that's done 8-10k a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 The VED is what it is, we couldn't change it or avoid it so we just paid it and forgot it and got on with using it. I never bothered with SORN as the saving of a few quid when owning and running a decent van was so expensive overall was never on our agenda, much better to use the darned thing all year round than worry about it! The whole VED thing is crazy after Grasping Gordon followed by others, started to use it to appear to be a pollution control tax. It's ridiculous that I could do 100,000 miles a year for nowt in VED in some new cars but it costs over £500 to use a large engineed luxury older car for no miles at all - but don't let me get started on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 lennyhb - 2017-10-01 5:49 PM Up to 3500kg it has gone up every year last year it was £235. Mine hasn't changed, over 3500kg it has been £165 for years. Which was what i thought.....and seems a bit weird really. Hiking up the tax of a vehicle weighing far less than heavier vehicles and leaving the latter untouched doesn't make sense to me....unless the intention is to use punitive taxation on the former to subsidise the latter which is how it appears to me. Brian Kirby - 2017-10-01 5:53 PM Bulletguy - 2017-10-01 5:42 PM Not sure where/how SORNing is relevant......or are you saying you run a zero rated VED vehicle for half the year? My VED used to be £215.....it's now gone up to £245.I thought others might have noticed the increase. £215 was the rate in 2011. It been going up pretty much every year. Last year was £235. You been counting? :-D Yes i know, i forgot to stick the year date in. The increases are disproportionate in my opinion. I suspect i'm paying more to fund the shortfall incurred by Government keeping vehicles such as Lenny's not just at a much lower rate, but also not increasing those same vehicles. £80 a year difference isn't small......it's a hefty gap. Tracker - 2017-10-01 10:28 PM The VED is what it is, we couldn't change it or avoid it so we just paid it and forgot it and got on with using it. The whole VED thing is crazy after Grasping Gordon followed by others, started to use it to appear to be a pollution control tax. Hhmm.....and remind me again Richard, how long have Conservatives been in government now? No decrease......only increases, yet they've had more than enough time to make changes. Seems they aren't really interested though doesn't it? As for pollution, that's just another Government 'con' in an attempt to force people back to petrol engines. Once they've achieved that the price of petrol will then rocket. Electric cars are still in their infancy and well beyond reach of average joe, so those too are a total non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 80p a day to use the roads? You probably spend more on coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 The majority of UK-registered motor caravans with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg are ‘VED-taxed’ in Tax Category TC11 (Private/Light Goods Vehicles). The annual VED rate for TC11 for the year from 1 April 2005 was £170 and (as lennyhb has said) the rate has risen inexorably with the amount of annual increase varying from £5 to £15. A motor caravan with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg falls into TC10 (Private HGV) and the present £165 annual VED rate has been static since (at least) 2005. This document may be of interest https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvaud/907/907.pdf and it’s perhaps worth noting that a graduated VED framework was recommended by the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution in the 1990s and was not a knee-jerk implementation by a particular UK Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-02 8:26 AM and it’s perhaps worth noting that a graduated VED framework was recommended by the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution in the 1990s and was not a knee-jerk implementation by a particular UK Government. Maybe, but I do wonder what the Royal Commission would now make of the actual implementation and subsequant fiddlings by both parties? Why make such a simple thing so complicated and why give anyone 'free' VED when everyone else has to pay something to add their own contibution, no matter how small, to road congestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Tracker - 2017-10-02 9:59 AM Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-02 8:26 AM and it’s perhaps worth noting that a graduated VED framework was recommended by the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution in the 1990s and was not a knee-jerk implementation by a particular UK Government. Maybe, but I do wonder what the Royal Commission would now make of the actual implementation and subsequant fiddlings by both parties? Why make such a simple thing so complicated and why give anyone 'free' VED when everyone else has to pay something to add their own contibution, no matter how small, to road congestion? I think you're missing a point, Richard. VED stands for Vehicle Excise Duty: it is just a tax. It is not a congestion charge, nor is it any longer a road fund tax, as many still seem to think. It has morphed into a tax based on pollution, on the (broad) basis that the polluter pays (unless the polluter has a commercial interest in polluting, in which case he is given a cheap way out). If you really want to give yourself apoplexy, follow this link, and wonder - remembering that this is the work of a Conservative government!! :-D http://dvla.dft.gov.uk/ved/ved-industry-brief-imported-vehicles.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Thanks Brian, but I really do not need apoplexy right now. Other than the fact that Gordon Brown started to whole fiasco of changing VED car use tax into a pollution related tax I make no comment on the antics of governments since except to say that they have continued to make a fair and simple system unduly complex and unfair. Far from missing the point that VED should be renamed PRT (emission related tax) the whole point is that VED is no longer vehicle related but theoretical CO2 related when it is now apparantly generally recognised that CO2 is not the real villain and NOX is. Apart from which the bigger the engine the less mpg so the more you pay in fuel costs and VAT and fuel duty - now that is how a proper pollution related tax works - let the polluter pay. Given that most big engined and low mpg cars are bought new by or via companies the polluter does not pay, his company, and their customers, you and me, pays which kinda defeats the object of a pollution related tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-02 8:26 AM The majority of UK-registered motor caravans with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg are ‘VED-taxed’ in Tax Category TC11 (Private/Light Goods Vehicles). The annual VED rate for TC11 for the year from 1 April 2005 was £170 and (as lennyhb has said) the rate has risen inexorably with the amount of annual increase varying from £5 to £15. A motor caravan with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg falls into TC10 (Private HGV) and the present £165 annual VED rate has been static since (at least) 2005. I have often wondered about this discrepancy. One possible answer is that horse boxes usually fall into the Private HGV category. Think about it. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmorris Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Tracker - 2017-10-02 11:12 AM .... except to say that they have continued to make a fair and simple system unduly complex and unfair. Far from missing the point that VED should be renamed PRT (emission related tax) the whole point is that VED is no longer vehicle related but theoretical CO2 related when it is now apparantly generally recognised that CO2 is not the real villain and NOX is. Apart from which the bigger the engine the less mpg so the more you pay in fuel costs and VAT and fuel duty - now that is how a proper pollution related tax works - let the polluter pay. Given that most big engined and low mpg cars are bought new by or via companies the polluter does not pay, his company, and their customers, you and me, pays which kinda defeats the object of a pollution related tax? No system of taxation is completely fair and simple. Simple rules usually lead to an inability to fairly deal with non-standard scenarios. Systems that cope with most possible scenarios are complex and inevitably may contain loopholes where some people try to 'play' the system. Add in the fact that special interest groups will stick in their oar to the drafting process and the influence of the cost impacts of policing such legislation and you have our present legislative system. The NOx and particulates (PM10s etc.) issues has only really become a political hot potato in the last 3 -4 years and I'm sure will start to influence the taxation system in the near future. I suspect that our older diesel-powered vans will become increasingly expensive to run over the next few years. ;-( However, this should all be put into the perspective that air quality in UK cities is becoming more and more of a problem. This can have a bad effect on the quality of life and life expectancy of people living near main roads in cities. People with asthma or COPD are particularly at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-02 8:26 AM The majority of UK-registered motor caravans with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg are ‘VED-taxed’ in Tax Category TC11 (Private/Light Goods Vehicles). The annual VED rate for TC11 for the year from 1 April 2005 was £170 and (as lennyhb has said) the rate has risen inexorably with the amount of annual increase varying from £5 to £15. A motor caravan with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg falls into TC10 (Private HGV) and the present £165 annual VED rate has been static since (at least) 2005. Which is where it's gone wrong imo. It may be simplistic and a bit too logical but using a reverse analogy it's the equivalent of taxing a Fiat 500 £245 pa and a Ford Transit £30 pa. Doesn't make sense does it? The lighter vehicle is less damaging to the roads so why penalise him at the expense of giving a much lower rate to the heavier vehicle? Alanb - 2017-10-02 1:16 PM Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-02 8:26 AM The majority of UK-registered motor caravans with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg are ‘VED-taxed’ in Tax Category TC11 (Private/Light Goods Vehicles). The annual VED rate for TC11 for the year from 1 April 2005 was £170 and (as lennyhb has said) the rate has risen inexorably with the amount of annual increase varying from £5 to £15. A motor caravan with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg falls into TC10 (Private HGV) and the present £165 annual VED rate has been static since (at least) 2005. I have often wondered about this discrepancy. One possible answer is that horse boxes usually fall into the Private HGV category. Think about it. Alan Perhaps everyone should start converting horse boxes into motorhomes? :D Or mobile hospitality suites used by race teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Alanb - 2017-10-02 1:16 PM Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-02 8:26 AM The majority of UK-registered motor caravans with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg are ‘VED-taxed’ in Tax Category TC11 (Private/Light Goods Vehicles). The annual VED rate for TC11 for the year from 1 April 2005 was £170 and (as lennyhb has said) the rate has risen inexorably with the amount of annual increase varying from £5 to £15. A motor caravan with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg falls into TC10 (Private HGV) and the present £165 annual VED rate has been static since (at least) 2005. I have often wondered about this discrepancy. One possible answer is that horse boxes usually fall into the Private HGV category. Think about it. Alan OK, I've thought about it.................and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 That it's all a conspiracy to keep the point-to-pointers and eventers (by definition relatively well-heeled) from having to pay higher rates of VED. Simples! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 :-( *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 The following link summarises motorhome-related VED rules http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs/3-motorhome-road-tax The DVLA advises that the Private/Heavy Goods Vehicle (TC10) category applies “If the vehicle has a revenue weight (GVW) exceeding 3500kg and the vehicle is not used for the conveyance of goods or burden, for hire or reward or in connection with a trade, business or profession.” It might be interesting to know how many of the large motorhomes from which people are ’trading’ at antiques fairs, car boot sales, etc. have a TC10 VED and whether the DVLA would consider that those vehicles comply with the TC10 criteria. (I have been unable to find anything on-line to explain why the annual VED TC10 rate of £165 has remained unchanged for so many years - it seems that it just has and that there’s been a ‘side benefit’ for over-3500kg motorhomes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-10-02 6:06 PM That it's all a conspiracy to keep the point-to-pointers and eventers (by definition relatively well-heeled) from having to pay higher rates of VED. Simples! :-) Seems crocs doesn't follow your analogy Brian. Take it to another level and use the Google, Starbucks, Amazon scenario and see if that works. Or billionaire Buffet who has spoken out against the ludicrous situation where his housekeeper pays a higher tax rate than him. Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-03 7:51 AM (I have been unable to find anything on-line to explain why the annual VED TC10 rate of £165 has remained unchanged for so many years - it seems that it just has and that there’s been a ‘side benefit’ for over-3500kg motorhomes.) This doesn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgieporgie70 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 hello bullet guy, the other forum member means you sorn it on the last day of the month you want to take of the road, but sorn it at midnight, as long as you are not going to use it again for months, sorn means; statutory off road notification, so if you use it when you have sorned it you will be fined, i will be sorning mine at the end of October, then i will get back 6 months ved (vehicle excise duty) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 VED in it's present form is unfit for purpose as it is neither a fair tax for owning a vehicle or a sensible polluton tax, however we can all agree that it is yet another form of tax! This is paricularly true for those with limited incomes who are unable to buy a newer and allegedly cleaner car and are stuck in paying a higher percentage of their income in VED than those of us who are better off and that is neither fair or logical. I'm contemplating buying a big old Jag or similar to help me spend my kids inheritance and I find that for cars emitting over 225 grams co2 the VED rates are - Over forty years old (Pre October 1977?) FREE = no ved From Oct 1977 to March 2001 = £245 From March 2001 to 23rd March 2006 = £305 From 24th March 2006 to March 2017 = £520. But it does seem to get better as cars registered from April 2017 will only have to pay £140 after their first year's astronomical taxation of £1700 or £2000, so I just need to live a few more years to benefit! Now there is a logic even less logical than the static PHGV rate of £165? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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