Engine/clutch? problems - Burstner Argos 747-2 (2007)

[Travelling Toddlers]

Dear All,

 

I am after some advice/words of wisdom on an issue that probably has no difinitive solution! My family and I are touring Europe and are currently in Spain in our 2007 model Burstner Argos 747 and there have been a series of engine mechanical problems that seem to be coming to a head. What I would like to know is whether the issues could be related and what action I should take about them.

 

So here goes, I purchased the motorhome from a respectable dealer last December with 20,000 miles on the clock and a dealership 3 year warranty. In May we travelled around north west Scotland for a month (about 1000 miles) and right at the end of that tour the yellow engine warning light (the one shaped like an engine block) intermittently came on on the dashboard. I had a local garage diagnose the fault codes as a potential EGR valve problem and a throttle actuator fault. Unfortunately because our ferry to the continent was booked for the very next day they couldn't diagnose any further or fix it in time. As there were no actual symptoms, everything worked normally and the light was intermittent I elected to get the ferry and so no fix was done in the UK.

 

After a few weeks in Germany the light was on permanently and so I took her to a Fiat garage and they confirmed an EGR problem, replaced the part at great cost and we went on our way. About 3 weeks later the engine warning light started intermittently coming on again and I assumed that it was the previously mentioned throttle actuator fault code and carried on without having it seen to. Shortly after this started the engine has started to show a wobble in the revs during acceleration at about 2000 RPM (as in a change in the revs not associated with speed and a hesitation in the acceleration). This problem has gotten slowly worse and then just over a week ago as we arrived in Spain, just after filling up at a petrol station, the engine has also become very laboured and it is very slow to accelerate above about 60 kph (35 mph!) although the revs are appropriate to the speed (as in not a stuck out clutch). I have just taken the van to a local garage and they have diagnosed a clutch problem as the rev wobble and shown me that the engine diagnostics indicate a "butterfly valve control" problem (I'm assuming that this is the Spanish language equivalent of a throttle actuator fault?).

 

So could all of these faults with a now 26,000 mile engine be related or are we just very unlucky? Also should I try to limp us back to the UK so that I can get the work done under warranty or are the chances of a breakdown somewhere in France too high?

 

Sorry for the very long tale, I'd love to hear some informed opinions.

 

Thanks.

[Billggski]

Fiat? Ford?

Engine size?

If a Fiat is it the x244 or x250 chassis, it changed that year?

If it's still under warranty I would head back. But check that having work done without permission hasn't invalidated it.

 

[euroserv]

Hello and Welcome,

 

You don't say which engine you have but to be perfectly honest although there are some differences under the bonnet of 2.3 and 3.0 engines; it does not make much difference to the prognosis for the symptoms that you are seeing.

 

I am going to assume that the item that you have had replaced already was the EGR valve. This is a common mistake to make because the fault codes are related to the EGR system but in reality the valve itself rarely fails. You have an electric solenoid valve that operates the EGR and this is more often the problem and this in turn fails because of the throttle body sticking, breaking internally or failing electrically; causing the solenoid valve to have to work much harder than usual to attempt to balance the air pressure in the manifold.

 

It is almost a certainty that you require a throttle body and if it has not been changed before you will also need a ludicrously over-priced converter cable for the electrics. This is available from Iveco dealers for a lot less and is exactly the same part number. The solenoid valve may well also need to be replaced. Motor factors can supply the throttle bodies for less than Fiat, and the same goes for the solenoid valve.

 

The task is not an easy one and often a couple of the bolts securing the body to the manifold will snap, requiring drilling out and re-tapping. Access is also very limited on A class vehicles; so expect plenty of groans from whomever is lucky enough to get the job if this applies to your vehicle.

 

Hope this helps; please do let us know how you get on.

 

Nick

 

PS; Yes, i am making certain assumptions. It pretty much must be a Fiat X250, going by the description of the faults.

[Travelling Toddlers]

Thanks, yes it is a Fiat Ducato 3.0. I'm not sure which chassis by the numbering but it is the later version of the Argos so I presume the x250. I'm glad the problems could be related and that we've not brought a diff one!

 

The part replaced by the dealer was a big metal one that looked like a valve so I presume it was the actual EGR. I will try a post a picture of it on here in a mo. The job cost about 1000 euros.

 

Thanks again it all helps in deciding what to do and I'll keep you updated.

[Travelling Toddlers]

Photo of the new & replaced part from previous repair.

[Travelling Toddlers]

Yes that's the exact model in the advert, thanks.

[witzend]

Surely your dealer should be picking up these bills if it's under warranty. I had a EGR replaced within the first 12 months on our van on the west coast of France and the dealer reimbursed me when I arrived home.

[Laika.brian]

 

I would not have much experience with these smaller engines, but our local motor home repairer has told me that X250 EGR trouble is very common. just wonder as previous reply is the cause of the issue been found and repaired as oppose to the outcome.

 

I do know that on larger engines you will see the unit de-rate ( so called limp home mode) so long travel back to UK before a repair could bring more problems, ( motor way towing etc.)

 

Regarding warranty might you consider contacting the dealer from which you purchased the motorhome ? might just be possible that they may have a Spanish contact, at the very least you will be making them aware that your vehicle is in need of attention, that you are along way from home and bills are arriving! it may make a final financial resolution a little less hassle for you, last thing they want is a retail bill which could be twice or more the cost price with out prior knowledge.

 

Hope you get sorted, update on progress.

 

PS I joined recently have found lots of great information and help !

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