dgh Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 One thing that surprises me in many motorhomes is the use of the Eberspacher diesel fired heaters. They require electricity to run them. albeit only 35 watts. However, this drains the leisure battery so you need to be on mains. Why not just have a small electrical heater rather than use expensive diesel on which duty has been paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 dgh, I think you have been misinformed. The heaters do not require you to be hooked up to mains. I have one on my boat and go away for weeks at a time, as long as you run the engine now and again they are perfect. They can also use red diesel (cheap heating oil). The only reason I can think of as to why converters don't fit them is that they are a bit noisy when running. They are very reliable and almost maintenance free. I will be fitting one to my van if I can get it cheap enough. Ask any long distance driver if they would be without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 And some of us have an aversion to paying site and electric fees. The whole point being freedom from umbilical cords. Just fit a second leisure battery to extend the period of non engine use. You will find a real benefit in making your gas last longer whilst extended touring in Europe and make sure you don't park next door to one on a cold night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi David, We had an eberspacher supplied factory fitted in a new Autocruise Starfire, over the 18 months of use it gave quite alot of problems. 1. Failed to start at times and to run continuously, due to intermittent connectivity problems in the wiring looms, plugs and sockets, crimped wires failing. 2. Expensive service costs and parts, i.e. Glow plug £50, exhaust system needed after servicing, due to brittle after much use. When servicing exhaust will break on dismantling, last cost was £400 for service. 3. You need a big battery or batteries to use it, 120 watts (10amps) for starting but only for 20 - 30 secs. Running is around 3 - 4 amps, extra fans if fitted to optional heater matrix's around 1.5amps each. The battery has to be in really good condition to deliver the starting amperage when starting time and time again if left on overnight. I think its a good unit for comfort, you can use it while on the move and I liked the Free! hot water thats available after a short drive. Off course now you can have Propane/Butane gas going while on the move, with the special chimney and gas cut off valve which is now available. Also Gaslow refillable cylinders are now available, so you can fill your gas cylinders almost everywhere in europe. Rather than pay around £1000 for an Eberspacher, I have paid £300 for a gaslow refillable system, and I am certain I have made the best selection. Paste the line below into google for more information on peoples opinion of Eberspacher, some good and some not so good. eberspacher site:http://www.motorhomefacts.com Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Terry, The running amperage is the same as the average TV set. Of course, it isn't on all the time, cutting in and out when needed, but, presumably it needs that big starting current every time it cuts in on the thermostat again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Mel, Yes - spot on, the system winds down after temp is reached and will burn on low, periodically it will cool, switch off and need to restart (automatically) costing 10 amps for up to 30 seconds on each restart. However it does tick over with just the integral water pump rotating, thats the low whine you get after the burner switches off and the exhaust stops roaring, it is afterall just like a jet engine, without the compressor. After the initial service, I serviced it myself, its pretty simple to strip down clean and replace parts, but as I mentioned the genuine parts are expensive. I found a normal new 110 amp leisure battery would not last the night out if the heating was switched on at tea time and off again 10am the next morning, some 17 hrs of use. Due mainly to the battery not delivering at least 11 volts at 10amps (min voltage for eberspacher to work), this occurs when the battery is under 10 amp load when about 65% charged. Switching your TV on or running the water pump will further reduce the voltage to a cutoff point and the eberspacher will detect low voltage and fail to start, or switch off if working. Also your TV may switch off when the Eberspacher switches on and fail to start, due to the volts going lower than 11 volt threshold your TV and eberspacher likes. Oh dear - where is it all going to end!! Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have "Engineered" these diesel heaters into industrial electric tractors for which they are ideal but would never fit one into my own motorhome for some basic reasons which others have also pointed out above.. I even gave away a sample! 1) Noisy. Subjective but for me they are very noisey! 2) Battery consumption - they require amps to run and lots of amps to heat the glow plug to start. You need LOTS of solar panels to be able to cover the ampere hour requirements of these heaters to be long term self sufficient. 3) If it goes wrong you are unlikely to be able to fix it yourself quickly. On the other hand the simple Truma gas heater will work very well with zero amps and has very little technology to go wrong. I believe the reason that van manufacturers are pushing these diesel heaters is because they can fit them almost anywhere and don,t require space like the Truma or the old Carver. I agree, if you have a substancial mains hookup then a small electric fan heater does the business, but don,t forget many continental hookups are very amp limited, frequently 4 or 5 amps only. But , each to their own. Happy Camping C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Terry, you must have been very unlucky. On my boat I have an "Ardic" Diesel heater, made by Volvo and it has been on there 16 Yrs the glow plug went once so I took it out and re-joined the broken coil and put it back in. It has worked ever since. I have taken it to bits once and cleaned and serviced it. I have certainly not experienced the problems you have. Mine is only a heater and not hot water boiler as well, so may be less complicated. My boat is 30Ft long and it heats it a treat. Hot water comes from the engine heat via a calorifier heat exchanger/imersion tank. With a 1Kw imersion heater as well so genny is used when no shore power available and moored up. I can't understand why this can't be used on a M/H as you would get free hot water from the engine waste heat. You can get some small 15 Ltr or so calorifiers. I know Rapido use waste heat to warm the back of the van on the move so it would not be a big job to take the water through a calorifier first and then to the heater. So you get free warm van and hot water as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Peter, Thanks for your comments. Your boat layout is exactly the same as the DW5 system I had in my MH, hot water and space heating from the calorifier and fan driven hot air matrix, energy from the engine cooling system, 1 Kw electric immersion heater and/or Eberspacher burner. It is a good system, but the requirements for boats don't always suit the MH'er. MH'er will park up off site for 2 or 3 days at a time, we don't like running our engine to top up the battery or just to provide hot water, often there are other campers around which might be upset hearing a diesel engine or genny running for hours on end. To get a meaningful charge into the battery from an engine may take up to 4hrs of running, although hot water will appear after 30 mins. Although the factory installation in my first MH was at fault, the plug sockets used three years ago in the Eberspacher looms were not up to the job, so it wasn't bad luck but bad design, hopefully it will have been sorted by now. Even so - once the fault was found and rectified, it would not fail again. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Hi Terry, How are you, Happy New Year! I was, very unfortunately, parked next to a Hymer fitted with one of these 'things' at the Peterboro show last year and the damn thing kept waking us up all through the night, had it not gone the next day we would have had to move, noisy that has to be the understatement of the year!! Had always thought they seemed a good idea until then but how must they sound inside the vehicle they are fitted too, or is it only the poor saps next to the exhaust that cop it?? Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Carry Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Had one on my old T25 VW and it worked well as a heater, if the exhaust length is balanced correctly to the intake then they are not so noisy, if not you get the jet engine sound. They are vey quite inside the van as on mine the main part of the heater was mounted outside under the van, all you could hear was a bit of fan noise and the worse thing to us the clicking of the fuel pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Having read Clive's article on fuel cells in the current MMM it struck me that, ongoing cost apart, these might be an ideal mate for the Eberspacher heating system. They do seem to overcome the problem with solar panals in that they (solar panels) give their best performance when least needed and their worse when needed most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Points taken Terry - I think on balance I too would prefer a gas heater! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Hi Basil, Yes we had a good Xmas & New Year, thanks for asking and we are all well, looking forward to our next trip. Eberspachers are a bit noisy for people outside, not too bad inside though. You do have to watch where you park though, hot/dry summer day parking on dry grass can suddenly catch fire from the Eberspacher exhaust system, while trying to create some hot water! seen the scorch marks myself. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwsmith Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I have a Webasto heater fitted to my T4 elevating roof camper which is very similar to the Eberspacher. I am quite happy with it. Yes, they make a noise but I think any problem that may cause depends on how and where they are used. When I need to use a heater it is usually early or late in the season on sites/aires that because of the time of year are not busy so are not overcrowded and often do not have hookups. Generally, when needed it goes on full blast for 30 mins in the evening by which time we are cooking then it is switched to low until bedtime. On the low setting any external noise is greatly reduced. We never leave it on overnight - we have artic sleeping bags! It goes on for a similar time in the morning. I do not think this mode of operation has ever caused inconvenience to any other motorhome or caravan campers who happened to be nearby. I am surprised that the noise of an Eberspacher could be intrusive enough to be a problem to any one in a nearby motorhome. Perhaps they are noisier than a Webasto? These heaters have the advantage for a small camper that they are compact and enable smaller quantities of gas to be carried. Using it as we do i.e sparingly the amps used has not been a problem as in colder weather any stops are generally just for a day or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Paste the line below into google for more information on peoples opinion of Eberspacher, some good and some not so good. eberspacher site:http://www.motorhomefacts.com Regards Terry Great tip for searching MHF, since the last week or so you need to pay the £10 sub to do a search through the site!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I have no experience of the Eberspacher unit but when we tested the Mobilveta Kimu early last year that had a Webasto unit fitted. It proved very efficient at heating the motorhome but it was also very noisy inside the 'van. When it kicked up in the night it startled me as I thought a 737 was coming in to land! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 When I specified our own, tailor built motorhome, I looked at diesel heaters very seriously. I decided against for several reasons: 1. The noise - we would only want the heater on when sitting inside in the evening when it's dark outside; that's also when we want peace and quiet to listen to music, etc. 2. The electricity consumption. 3. I would have no idea what mileage I was getting when driving. 4. I had already decided on an electric compressor fridge/freezer, so the only gas use would be for cooking. 5. On site we use a small electric fan heater if we hook up. So I decided on a Propex gas blown air heater and Malaga hot water boiler. Both work from gas and the water heater also has a 750 watt electric element - I just leave this switched on if we are hooked up and it cuts out on the thermostat. I also have an MTH refillable gas cylinder. Last May/June in Norway, we got down to about 1/3rd full in the gas tank before we were close enough to a petrol station that sold gas. It all worked fine. However, both the Propex heater and the Malaga boiler (also now made by Propex) went wrong within a year and I had to take the 'van to Southampton to get them fixed. The after-sales service was excellent, but I'd really rather not need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I still reckon for simplicity a gas convector with maybe fan assistance together with a mark 1 kettle (with whistle) is best for simple warmth and washing. Easy to run and easy to sort out if they don't run - just forget the shower and have a good wash down each morning - just like we used to when we was kids - for those of us beyond a certain age that is! You don't have to reorganise or dry out the washroom either and my dog reckons I smell alright even after a month of this - and her nose is pretty sensitive! Vans are getting too sophisticated and too expensive to repair whilst reliability also seems to be suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Just one further comment. Don't use these on campsites! The comments above relate to the noise as heard from adjacent motorhomes. Just imagine the row if all your neighbour has for noise abatement is canvas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 When on mains hook-up (very rare for us) I now use a smal 500w? oil filled rad, slow to heat van but only thing you hear is stat clicking in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Good idea Colin - I'll get a diesel generator to power my convector - that should arouse some interest and help keep anyone from parking too close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Should I drag my antique 3.5 KVA 30 year old Peter single sylinder diesel site generator into the trailer for the next MH show then folks? It has both 220 and 110 volt outputs, ideal for a few tools Dave! I guess that it makes about the same racket as 10 of those half megawatt lumps that Warners hire for the shows put together, but it would surely drive away those with Diesel heaters!!! What did you say??? Sorry say that again!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Only if your Petter is air cooled please Clive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Definately air cooled as is the old Lister powered generator set bolted to the corner of the garage floor. That reminds me, the old Lister set is looking for a new home ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.