binlicker Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I bought a new Pilote 740 Galaxy in March. I have been having a continuing problem with a Pilote fitted head unit. The unit a Pioneer AVIC-F980DAB-C which was fitted as an optional extra. It will only show the POIs on the sat nav for 2/3 days then they fail to work [Greyed out seems to be the technical term] It's been back to DTRONIX which is the Pioneer approved repairer. They said it had no fault but for dealer to check the speed pulse wire. Pioneer have tried with the dealer to solve this problem, they do a factory reset it works for a couple of days then again fails. It went back to the dealer. they said it was working OK and it was the speed pulse wire connection which they had rectified. 2 days later it again failed. I am now waiting for the dealer to get back in touch with Pioneer. I can't believe I am the only person experiencing this problem if this head unit was fitted as an optional extra to other new Pilote m/homes in 2017, unless DTRONIX missed the fault when they had the head unit for nearly a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJJ Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi, I took delivery of a P746C in March. It came without a headunit fitted by Pilote; but I had ordered the same Pioneer unit as you to be fitted here in the UK by dealer (SMC). The dealer was unaware to the speed pulse connection. I retrofitted a "CANM8 CANNECT PULSE" unit to provide the necessary signal; that unit piggybacks off the canbus. From where are they obtaining the speed pulse signal? I haven't noticed any problem with the POI feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binlicker Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi MikeJJ, The thing that's been bothering me the most regarding this unit is it states in the fitting manual this unit can not be fitted to a vehicle which doe's not have a ACC setting on the ignition switch. It all started with the DVD. I could only play the DVD when the ignition was fully switched on. This was rectified by bye passing the hand brake switch from there it all went down hill. Now the dealer states all the wiring is as should but I can still play the DVD when moving........ This is the read out from Fiat. I passed this info on to the dealer which just happens to be SMC. Speedometer signal/ VSO (Vehicle Speed Output) The speedometer signal is generated by the NFR [braking Node on CanBus] with the two sensors on the rear wheels reading the speed. The signal is made available over the C- CAN network. The NBC [body Computer Node] codes it on B- CAN by means of which it reaches NQS [instrument Panel Node] to govern the speedometer and the odometer. The NBC also uses another speedometer signal, called VSO [Vehicle Speed Output], generated by the NFR. This signal does not involve the network, but is sent straight to the NBC to be used by control units that are not connected to the network but which use a vehicle speed signal for their operation, such as for instance the power steering control unit, tachograph and the rear video camera (where applicable). This is the signal which can be utilised for SatNav inputs where required. It can be accessed at the Body Computer behind the RH (UK drivers) side lower dash. A diagram is shown below. The signal is carried by Pin 10 of the AV 52 Pin Connector circled in red. By finding the wire which enters the connector to connect to Pin 10 it is a simple matter to join a wire to feed the SatNav. So far as I know this is how they connected to the speed pulse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 binlicker - 2017-10-11 1:03 PM I bought a new Pilote 740 Galaxy in March. I have been having a continuing problem with a Pilote fitted head unit. The unit a Pioneer AVIC-F980DAB-C which was fitted as an optional extra. It will only show the POIs on the sat nav for 2/3 days then they fail to work [Greyed out seems to be the technical term] It's been back to DTRONIX which is the Pioneer approved repairer. They said it had no fault but for dealer to check the speed pulse wire. Pioneer have tried with the dealer to solve this problem, they do a factory reset it works for a couple of days then again fails. It went back to the dealer. they said it was working OK and it was the speed pulse wire connection which they had rectified. 2 days later it again failed. I am now waiting for the dealer to get back in touch with Pioneer. I can't believe I am the only person experiencing this problem if this head unit was fitted as an optional extra to other new Pilote m/homes in 2017, unless DTRONIX missed the fault when they had the head unit for nearly a month. Maybe you need to ask some different questions. I'm completely inexpert, but it seems to me counter-intuitive that the speed pulse wire should affect access to POIs. It seems the speed pulse input has two functions. First, to allow the navigation function greater accuracy when the satellite signal is lost (under trees, in built up areas, tunnels etc.) and second, to allow the unit to store an accurate fix on its location if, when turning off, there is no satellite signal. The latter being an aid to navigation on re-start where the satellite signal is absent, enabling the unit to give immediate guidance until the satellites are picked up. Since POIs are stored in memory, I can't see why information on location/speed would make them inaccessible, nor any advantage to incorporating that as a feature. I'm assuming these POIs are the "built in" variety (embedded in the mapping), and not ones installed by you (which I assume would be stored in flash memory). Do you notice these failures while your van is in use, or only after it has been static for a while? Does the radio retain its pre-sets OK? Is it possible the power connection is via the Fiat time-limited supply, which will shut off the radio after a period of time when the engine is not running, to prevent drain on the starter battery? I'm wondering if the access to POIs is lost due to loss of power to the unit, possibly because the memory requires constant power? Have you spoken directly to Pioneer's technical department to ensure they understand how and when the problem arises? Put simply, it is either the unit that is at fault, or the installation. You seem to be getting the classic run around between manufacturer, who blames installer, and installer, who blames manufacturer. It is extremely unfair, but the onus to find a solution ultimately lies with the dealer who sold you the van with the head unit in it. The doubts could be eliminated by installing another, identical, head unit. If it works, the fault was in the unit, if it shows the same fault, the fault is in the installation. I would have thought a unit used for such a brief test, if merely connected for test purposes, would still be saleable as new providing it is handled and re-packed carefully. Hope this helps a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Ah ha! I just wonder if the unit should have been connected to a supply from the habitation battery, rather than the starter battery. This seems to point to loss of constant power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binlicker Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi Brian, All the points you have made are valid and yes I fully agree why should the speed pulse wire control the POIs but according to both Pioneer and DTRONIX it does, how I really don't know. According to t SMC the Fiat Ducato doe's not have a speed pulse wire. So you can see where this is going. Just before I read this post SMC e mailed to say I should send it back to DTRONIX now the fault is showing i.e. greyed out POIs. It went back with greyed out POIs the first time, they reset it and said it was all OK. So I put it to SMC to swop over the unit as you suggested that way I will know where the fault lies. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binlicker Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hello Brian, Just seen your second post. It is supplied by both the starter battery and the leisure battery so when you are parked up there is no drain on the starter battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJJ Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi Some observations: - As per Brian's response I can't see the impact of the speed pulse on the POIs. My unit worked fine , as far as POIs were concerned, before connecting the speed pulse wire. - the connection you describe is exactly as I found out, but does require making a connection into that 52-way connector. I was advised not to connect there as it might affect Fiat Warranty issues. Hence why I used an external box which, in essence reads a signal through the OBD port totally external to the Fiat wiring. - in the Pioneer configuration mine is set with the safety features off, so it will work fully both when engine is running or when powered through the Electroblock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binlicker Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hello MikeJJ, Why or what is the purpose of a CANM8 CANNECT PULSE? What did it affect on your unit. As I explained to Brian both Pioneer and DTRONIX said for the POIs to work correctly it had to be connected to the speed pulse wire why I have no idea. I cant find any reference to a SPW effecting POIs on the net no one can give me a definitive reason why they just keeping saying it has to be connected. [Which it is you can read the speed in settings] As Brian said I'am being passed from pillar to post without getting what should be a simple fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binlicker Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hello MikeJJ, I've just Googled what a CANM8 CANNECT PULSE is, no need to explain. If my unit is connected to the Fiat speed pulse wire, which it is. I can see the speed increasing in settings there would be no need to fit a separate box, is that correct? The only question I would ask is what features did you not have to fit a CANM8 CANNECT PULSE BOX in the first place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJJ Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi Believe me I can understand your frustration as I too spent weeks being told one thing then another. As to the CANM8: http://www.ncs-systems.com/car-electronics/can-bus-interfaces/speed-pulse-interfaces/canm8-pulse.html This box reads the speed signal as presented on the canbus and provides a suitable output for sending to the navigation unit or anything else which needs it. That's all it does. By the way I have looked through the Pioneer Operators Manual and found on page 60 the reference to turning off the safe mode, if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJJ Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi Yes you are correct, the canm8 is just an alternative method, to the one you are using, of getting a speed signal. The only reason I pursued connecting the speed pulse wire was that I expected to be travelling where the GPS signal would be intermittent eg in long tunnels, and wanted the dead reckoning to compensate for that. Other than that everything worked as expected for the few weeks I used the navigation unit before connecting up the speed signal. The wire was just left loose. Back to your original issue I am really at a loss to suggest any logical explanation. Sorry. But overall I have found the capability of Pioneer F980 and all its connectivity very impressive ie nav, radio, etc, etc. I update the navigation unit every couple of weeks or so as there seems to be a constant stream of updates available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binlicker Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Hi MikeJJ, Yes I agree the unit is very good [When it works correctly] As for being in safe mode, it was one of the first things they checked. I will just have to wait and see what SMC comes back with. Thanks for your help I will let you know the outcome and if they finally fix the fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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