sandalwood Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 My Rapido 776ff has 2 leisure batteries, one is not charging! Husband ( long pockets, short arms!) says we only need the one. We do nit do wild camping, but sometimes are off site when travelling. Is he being tight or should we always have 2. S :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 It all depends! How old are the batteries and are they identical? If you only buy one battery now, the chances are the other old one will fail, assuming they are of a similar age etc, dragging the new one down with it and leaving you back where you are now. If you don't do much off site camping other than the occasional overnight are you sure you really need two batteries? Do you plan on changing the van or keeping it for a few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 sandalwood - 2017-10-19 3:39 PM My Rapido 776ff has 2 leisure batteries, one is not charging! Husband ( long pockets, short arms!) says we only need the one. We do nit do wild camping, but sometimes are off site when travelling. Is he being tight or should we always have 2. S :-( As Tracker says, the ages of the batteries is paramount. Both batteries should be of the same age within a few weeks, of the same type (flooded, gel, AGM etc.), and be broadly of the same capacity. All batteries lose capacity as they age. Pairing a new battery with an old battery that has lost part of its capacity will result in the new battery never getting fully charged, and so will quite quickly reduce its capacity to that of the older battery. This loss of capacity cannot be recovered once inflicted. If you are only spending time of EHU occasionally, and then only for a day or so, one good 85Ah plus battery should be adequate. This assumes that you don't place heavy demands on the battery (hairdryer, microwave, etc,) and that your lighting is reasonably efficient. A battery should not be discharged below 50% of its capacity. Discharging below this level also causes damage. It would be helpful if you can say what type and capacity the existing batteries are, and also give some idea of how you use the battery when off-grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 your post is not clear, do you mean buy one battery to add to what you have or just dispense with one battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Sandalwood The 776FF model was first marketed by Rapido in 2010 (example here) https://www.caravansforsale.co.uk/motorhome/rapido-le-randonneur-776ff-style-edition-fiat-4-berth-2010-u/585126 I can’t find any clue in your earlier postings to indicate when your 776FF was built, but there is clearly the potential for its original leisure-batteries to be 7 years old - which would be a reasonable lifespan expectation. For a good many years Rapido has standardised on a 100Ah Banner “Energy Bull” 95751 (photo attached) for the original equipment leisure-battery with a 2nd identical battery as an option. As has been advised repeatedly on this forum, the electrolyte-level of an Energy Bull battery needs to be carefully monitored and the electrolyte topped up when necessary. Not doing this will eventually result in the battery failing. So if your motorhome still has its original Banner leisure-batteries and these have not been looked after and/or are getting on in years, if one of the pair can no longer hold its charge (I assume it will actually charge - just won’t hold the charge?) then there’s a fair chance the other battery will also die soon. First thing to do is to disconnect the ‘bad’ battery from the ‘good’ battery, as leaving the two batteries connected carries risks. As far as the future is concerned I note from your previous inquiries that you are seriously considering ‘downsizing’ to a panel-van conversion, so - as long as the Rapido’s ‘good’ leisure-battery still has some life left in it - you might consider not replacing it with a new battery before swapping the 776FF for a smaller PVC. If you decide to keep the 776FF for a while, you would be wise to replace the existing ‘good’ battery now and the leisure-battery generally recommended here is Varta’s LFD90 (example in this advert) https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/varta-lfd90.html This is dimensionally similar to an Energy Bull 95751, so fitting one (or a pair) in a 776FF should present no installation problems. I manage with a single Energy Bull 95751 leisure-battery, but nowadays we only spend the occasional night off 230V mains hook-up, don’t have a TV in the ‘van, and don’t use the motorhome in really cold weather. If you (or your miserly husband) think you might be better off with more battery ’storage’, fit a pair of Varta LFD90 batteries rather than just a single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Buy the 2 whats worst than a dead battery bank when you need them http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-110AH-Deep-Cycle-Battery-Numax-XV31MF-Leisure-Caravan-Marine-Boat-500-Cycles-/201610289666?epid=1745829063&hash=item2ef0e8e202:g:y30AAOSw~FJZJYo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 The length/height dimensions of the Numax XV31MF battery shown in the ebay advert differ from those of a Banner “Energy Bull” 95751, with the the Numax battery being shorter (330mm versus 354mm) and taller (242mm versus 190mm). The Numax’s shorter length should not matter, but the extra height might. My Rapido’s Banner 95751 battery is housed in the motorhome’s rear garage. I COULD replace the Banner battery with a Numax XV31MF, but - because I’ve double-floored the garage and 'boxed in’ the Banner battery to protect it from possible damage - the Numax’s greater height would require alterations to the current arrangement. Even if I had not boxed in the Banner battery, minor modifications to the original cabling would have been required to permit a Numax XV31MF battery to be installed. I don’t know whether leisure-battery dimensions would be critical for a Rapido 776FF motorhome, but it’s perhaps worth bearing in mind should Sandlewood decide to make replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 The Numax is not half of the battery the Varta LFD90/Bosch L5 Powerframe is. Not in life time, power delivered, self discharge rate, deterioration, efficiency, fluid loss, gassing, etc. The Numax even takes longer to charge up. . Almost every area you could compare, the Varta will beat it, by a BIG margin, as it does all conventional batteries in the up to £150 bracket. Especially so when the batteries are past 18 months of use. Yet the Varta Powerframe is only £4 dearer than the £89 Numax. If you look at the Numax website, it makes no special technology claims at all for their conventional battery range. Compare that to a whole host of special technology claimed by Varta/Bosch Powerframe, one of which is up to 70% better electrical flow. As a Battery is all about electrical flow, 70% is a huge advantage over normal batteries, even if you ignore everything else. See why we think there isn't a better battery than the Bosch L5/Varta LFD90 ranges : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-charging-faults.php Cut open a Numax and a Varta Powerframe, like we have, and you will see the real evidence of which is the better battery, not just the 'marketing claims'. Lots of people might argue with what we say, but if the price is virtually identical, most people would go with one of the biggest companies in batteries in the World, rather than a small company, wouldn't they? Oh yes the price, how can it be so good if it costs so little? Because the Advanced Technology makes it 20% cheaper to produce. Along with massive economies of scale it makes it the best value battery going. The Varta LFD 90 Powerframe was the biggest selling Habitation aftermarket battery in 2017, by a huge margin. And no, we don't sell ANY batteries.. But watch out for the new Exide batteriers being developed now and allegedly due to market in 2019, they could be as big a game changer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-22 7:29 PM Yet the Varta Powerframe is only £4 dearer than the £89 Numax. And no, we don't sell ANY batteries.. Could you add a link to where it's available for this price the link in a post above with postage added is quite a bit more than you advise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Last one we bought from Tayna was £92. Battery megastore are £3.65 dearer than the £93 we quote, that is with delivery? Not sure what link you are referring to where they are 'quite a bit more'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Bought mine here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LFD90-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-90Ah-12V-/252440425270?epid=502468775&hash=item3ac69f3336:g:auYAAOSwTm9Z6feh - £96.45 inc delivery . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-23 10:00 AM Not sure what link you are referring to where they are 'quite a bit more'? Look thru the thread its there and your not matching the Numax against a similar battery the Numax is 110 ah where as the Varta is only 90 ah so you can't really compare prices the Varta should be less than the Numax not more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 witzend - 2017-10-24 11:34 PM aandncaravan - 2017-10-23 10:00 AM Not sure what link you are referring to where they are 'quite a bit more'? Look thru the thread its there and your not matching the Numax against a similar battery the Numax is 110 ah where as the Varta is only 90 ah so you can't really compare prices the Varta should be less than the Numax not more If you click on the link Allan gave it's explained on his website why there is no real advantage in going for higher amp hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-23 10:29 AM ...But watch out for the new Exide batteriers being developed now and allegedly due to market in 2019, they could be as big a game changer again. Tell us more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Charles - 2017-10-25 7:54 AM witzend - 2017-10-24 11:34 PM aandncaravan - 2017-10-23 10:00 AM Not sure what link you are referring to where they are 'quite a bit more'? Look thru the thread its there and your not matching the Numax against a similar battery the Numax is 110 ah where as the Varta is only 90 ah so you can't really compare prices the Varta should be less than the Numax not more If you click on the link Allan gave it's explained on his website why there is no real advantage in going for higher amp hours. The Numax XV31MF battery has been discussed previously on this forum. On-line comments generally suggest that buyers are happy with it, but (as I explained earlier) its physical dimensions are potentially ‘wrong’ for a Rapido 776FF motorhome. There are plenty of 110AH ‘leisure batteries’ on the market https://www.tayna.co.uk/110Ah-Leisure-Batteries-and-Group-31-Size-Leisure-Batteries-G152.html If advertised AH capacity and price are to be the primary buying criteria, a Powerline L110 at £54.95 should surely be preferred to the Numax-branded product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Charles - 2017-10-25 7:54 AM witzend - 2017-10-24 11:34 PM aandncaravan - 2017-10-23 10:00 AM Not sure what link you are referring to where they are 'quite a bit more'? Look thru the thread its there and your not matching the Numax against a similar battery the Numax is 110 ah where as the Varta is only 90 ah so you can't really compare prices the Varta should be less than the Numax not more If you click on the link Allan gave it's explained on his website why there is no real advantage in going for higher amp hours. Charles, thank you, appreciated. You and I know what you are referring to, but it might be read by some that there is no advantage to extra Ah full stop?. What I think Charles is referring to is that the majority of budget 110Ah are so poorly constructed, that the, often exaggerated, greater capacity is only available for a short time. There have also been questions raised over their 'real' capacity as some tests, including our own, never seem to be able to extract the rated capacity. In real terms you will find that in less than 12 months of age the number of amps you can draw from a 90Ah Varta/Bosch will exceed that of a budget 110Ah. Explained on the webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php Stuart, I can't tell you much more about the new Exide, sorry, except that it is a spin off from the work with the Exide Carbon Boost technology of the current Wet battery range. See here : http://www2.exide.com/gb/en/product-solutions/transportation/product/exide-premium-carbon-boost.aspx These are already amazing car batteries, but the best is yet to come, fingers crossed we will all benefit. According to our man, Exide were caught on the hop at just how successful the Varta/Bosch Powerframe technology has proved to be around the World. They were doubly disappointed that Varta/Johnson Controls Patented the technology so they couldn't copy it!! Exide want to recapture market share and are putting a lot of money into a Wet Acid Leisure Battery to beat the Powerframe Have a look at the Exide link above. Carbon Boost has some great features, one of which is high temperature operation which blights so many AGM/Gel batteries in Motorhomes. One thing that is missing for Motorhome owners in the Carbon Boost technology, that the Powerframe has, is zero fluid loss and zero gas escape. But that is being worked on as well. Anyone who thinks all Wet Acid batteries are the same, has been asleep the last 3 years. Note : In the Exide link above the text talks about 1.5 times faster charging, etc, remember this is against a conventional battery like the Numax, not the far more advanced Powerframe which can charge up to twice as fast as conventional batteries. The best Wet Acid batteries are now so advanced the small companies just don't have the resources to roll anything even half as good. So Witzend, you are sort of correct in that we are not comparing like for like batteries. The Varta LFD90 doesn't currently have any peers. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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