silverback Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 hi all, so i was travelling down the A9 in Scotland, when i came across a sign every 1 mile, it was a red outline round sign white in the middle with 7.5T in the middle, and on a seperate sign underneath it said limited to 50 mph, ok i thought vehicles over 7.5T mam 50 mph was the limit (feel free to say i'm thick if this is wrong) :-D so this is where i'm confused, my van is 4500kg mam and 3.5kg unladen, so my thoughts are under new rules/laws i am limited to 50 mph single carriageway, 60 mph dual carriageway and 70 mph motorways this is my understanding, (again if i am wrong please enlighten me) so this is the problem, if i bat on at 60mph like the sign says i can and the police stop me do i have an arguement that the signs say i can? and another point is i have not seen new signs saying the new rules/laws so could you argue that you were doing what the signs say or am i supposed to know these new rules/laws? thoughts invited :-D B-) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 In Scotland, vehicles over 7.5t are limited to 40 mph on single carriageways. However, there is a pilot scheme on the A9 that allows them to travel at 50mph as a test to see if this helps avoid tailbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 argh right i didn't know that limit on over 7.5 ton, so that explains the sign saying 50mph jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 silverback - 2017-10-23 9:39 PM and another point is i have not seen new signs saying the new rules/laws so could you argue that you were doing what the signs say or am i supposed to know these new rules/laws? thoughts invited :-D B-) Jonathan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 colin - 2017-10-24 10:33 AM silverback - 2017-10-23 9:39 PM and another point is i have not seen new signs saying the new rules/laws so could you argue that you were doing what the signs say or am i supposed to know these new rules/laws? thoughts invited :-D B-) Jonathan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat thanks i didn't know that either, but i would suspect that at least half the population of motor homers do not know their new legal speed limits, i only knew cos one day after an update my sat nag told me! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLou Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 It is your responsibility to know any new laws. You agreed to keep up to date with the highway code when you passed your test "apparently". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 Andy&Lou - 2017-10-24 10:45 AM It is your responsibility to know any new laws. You agreed to keep up to date with the highway code when you passed your test "apparently". did I, well there again something i didn't know thanks Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 The official line is that a limit of 30 mph usually applies unless there are signs to the contrary (yes I was surprised too, I thought it was the other way around – it’s a while since I took my test). The sign indicating that national speed limits apply (black angle bar on white background) would be an example. So I suspect that the A9 is subject to the national speed limits and since your vehicle is not 7.5T or over the 50 mph sign should effectively be ignored. As mentiond, it’s wise to get a copy of the highway code and gen up periodically, it’s a good ten years since I last looked – metal note to get a new copy. There’s even possibly a good argument in favour of drivers having to undergo a new theory test every ten years although I suspect none of us would like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watty55 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 It seems a ridiculous system in this country that drivers have to remember that they are in a 30 MPH zone, Better to make it safer and have signs for all speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 The 30 mph speed limits on unsigned roads used to be governed by the spacing of the lamp posts, had it not . ? Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 silverback - 2017-10-24 10:48 AM Andy&Lou - 2017-10-24 10:45 AM It is your responsibility to know any new laws. You agreed to keep up to date with the highway code when you passed your test "apparently". did I, well there again something i didn't know thanks Jonathan Having taken my test nearly 60 years ago, I can't remember back that far ! The one thing I do remember was having to use hand signals , which was a pain when it rained! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 silverback - 2017-10-24 12:39 PMhi all, so i was travelling down the A9 in Scotland, when i came across a sign every 1 mile, it was a red outline round sign white in the middle with 7.5T in the middle, and on a seperate sign underneath it said limited to 50 mph A round sign with a red border prohibits something (such as exceeding a specified speed or travelling on the road using a certain type of vehicle. A blank white inner circle means all motorised vehicles are banned. A qualifying remark below it can limit the prohibition in some way, for example by applying a speed limit to certain types of vehicle or to within certain hours. Signs of this sort are quite common in mainland European Countries. I would have thought the correct way to sign a ban on lorries over 7.5 tons exceeding 50mph would be to have a "50" within the white circle and "Over 7.5 tons" on a qualifying sign below it, but trust the Scots to do it their own way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmorris Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 As far as I am aware, the 30mph rule is simple. If there are Street lights the limit is 30 unless there are signs indicating otherwise. This includes dual carriageways, but not motorways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 michaelmorris - 2017-10-27 9:48 AM As far as I am aware, the 30mph rule is simple. If there are Street lights the limit is 30 unless there are signs indicating otherwise. This includes dual carriageways, but not motorways. It depends on the spacing of the lights . The closer they are, the lower limit applies (30) Further appart the limit is 40 mph, on suburban roads, unless like in Portsmouth they have 20 mph and in some cases 15 mph limits. PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 watty55 - 2017-10-26 6:05 PM It seems a ridiculous system in this country that drivers have to remember that they are in a 30 MPH zone, Better to make it safer and have signs for all speeds. But then you get into a situation such as in Spain, where there are so many speed limit signs, plus other signs such as the start and end of every change in centre white line (overtaking allowed/disallowed) that you barely have time left to look at the road ahead. The Spaniards will sign a change in speed limit that only lasts for 50 metres.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmorris Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 PJay - 2017-10-27 9:55 AM michaelmorris - 2017-10-27 9:48 AM As far as I am aware, the 30mph rule is simple. If there are Street lights the limit is 30 unless there are signs indicating otherwise. This includes dual carriageways, but not motorways. It depends on the spacing of the lights . The closer they are, the lower limit applies (30) Further appart the limit is 40 mph, on suburban roads, unless like in Portsmouth they have 20 mph and in some cases 15 mph limits. PJay I've done a little research and here is what the official government website says https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits Importantly,it doesn't mention a 30/40 mph limit depending upon street light spacings. The street light bit comes in because any area that is street lit is classed as a built up area. The legislation defines when an area is regarded as being street lit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built-up_area_(Highway_Code) If you are entering this area form an area with a higher speed limit it should be signed as 30, but will not normally have repeater signs reminding of the 30mph limit. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Don't forget, Scotland has it's own regulations. https://www.scottishdrivinglaw.co.uk/legal-advice/van-drivers/speed-limit-for-vans/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 StuartO - 2017-10-27 9:47 AM>I would have thought the correct way to sign a ban on lorries over 7.5 tons exceeding 50mph would be to have a "50" within the white circle and "Over 7.5 tons" on a qualifying sign below it, but trust the Scots to do it their own way!Well, how else do you think we can raise revenue from unsuspecting sassenachs? >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 silverback - 2017-10-23 9:39 PM hi all, so i was travelling down the A9 in Scotland, when i came across a sign every 1 mile, it was a red outline round sign white in the middle with 7.5T in the middle, and on a seperate sign underneath it said limited to 50 mph, ok i thought vehicles over 7.5T mam 50 mph was the limit (feel free to say i'm thick if this is wrong) :-D so this is where i'm confused, my van is 4500kg mam and 3.5kg unladen, so my thoughts are under new rules/laws i am limited to 50 mph single carriageway, 60 mph dual carriageway and 70 mph motorways this is my understanding, (again if i am wrong please enlighten me) so this is the problem, if i bat on at 60mph like the sign says i can and the police stop me do i have an arguement that the signs say i can? and another point is i have not seen new signs saying the new rules/laws so could you argue that you were doing what the signs say or am i supposed to know these new rules/laws? thoughts invited :-D B-) Jonathan Your reduced speed limits are not because your van has a MAM of 4,500kg, it will be because it weighs more than 3,050kg unladen. This unladen weight speed limit is unique to motorhomes. Those lower limits (30, 50, 60, 70) always apply to your van unless lower speed limits (i.e. 40 MPH) are signed. Since the limit you saw on the A9 referred to 7.5 tonne and above goods vehicles it did not apply to your van. (However, there is a typo somewhere because you say above "if i bat on at 60mph like the sign says i can", but elsewhere you said the sign below the 7.5 tonne limit sign read "Limited to 50 MPH". Where was that 60 MPH limit?) Goods vehicles are subject to the same limits as your van if under 7.5 tonnes MAM, but to 30, 50, 60, and 60 in England and wales, and 30, 40, 50 and 60 in Scotland, if over 7.5 tonnes MAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 no typo Brian, bit of a mis understanding, i was trying to say....if i was to drive at 60 mph as if i was 3050 kg unladen and the plod pulls me over and i told them that i could do that cos i am under 7.5 T (pleading ignorance about the new limits for my size of mo ho) god i'm even confusing myself now! (lol) would i get a fine, but some one above has said that i would not be able to do that cos in law ignorance is no defense Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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