Motorhome Insurance Problems

[alistair]

We are New Zealanders and will be travelling to the UK in April to begin five months motorhoming in the UK and Europe. Through the magic of the internet, we’ve bought a 1998 Autosleeper Duetto 2.5TD and it is currently being stored for us by the vendor. Buying the van has proven to be the easy part. We now have to insure it. I have contacted a huge number of brokers and insurers, and all but two have told me that they will not insure anyone who is not a permanent resident of the UK. Some just refer to this requirement in general terms, while others specify the permanent residency to have been for a specific minimum period (nine months in one case, three years in others, and even one since birth). I have found only two companies that offer insurance to non-residents, and they seem to cater for tourists who are in the UK for a short time, buy a vehicle to tour in while they are there, and sell it on their departure. The premiums from these companies are more than twice what a UK resident would pay, there are no no-claim discounts, and policies last a maximum of 12 months, at which time the application process has to completely start again. The policies are very good and both companies are very professional and helpful, but the premiums are expensive.

 

At the end of our time in the UK this year, the van will be going into a secure storage facility for us to do it all again in 2008, and on for a few years, health and cashflow permitting. We both have clean NZ driving licences (held for more than 40 years), we have UK bank accounts (for more than 30 years, since we lived in the UK for a couple of years), and have a permanent contact address in the UK (friends). While we’re back in NZ each UK winter, the van will be in secure storage and not on the roads or parked in a driveway so will be less of an insurance risk than many owned by permanent residents. We want an insurer for the medium to long term and feel that our intentions make us more like UK residents than tourists, from an insurance risk point of view. All this has been conveyed to every insurer or broker I have approached.

 

I have asked many insurers and brokers why non-residents are discriminated against in this way, but none have responded, other than to say “it’s the rules”. Is there anyone in the insurance industry who can explain why this discrimination exists? Does anyone know of an insurer that does not have the “permanent resident” requirement? We have not completed the change of ownership so the van is still covered by the vendor’s insurance, but we will shortly be insuring it ourselves, and are not happy about having to accept the high cost of tourist insurance. I also wonder how permanent motorhomers are treated by insurers as they are no longer permanent residents of the UK. Can anyone advise?

 

Sorry for the long post, but I had to get it off my chest! Any comments welcome.

 

[Mel E]

I'm afraid you've hiot a problem that many Ozzies and NZers before you have hit. I have no problem getting insurance in Oz for an Oz-registered vehicle, but you do anywhere in the EU.

 

On any UK insurance application form (or website) you will be asked if you are a UK resident. Even if you do meet the requirement - say, after 3 months - you will not get a No Claims discount as you have no claims history here.

 

I can only suggest that you talk to one of the three top Motorhome Brokers, all of whom advertise in MMM, and make sure you speak to one of the principals or at least an experienced member of staf (i.e., not a young lady with a headset!). These are Comfort Insurance, Bakers of Cheltenham and Safeguard. If they cannot help you, it is unlikely that anyone else will be able to.

 

It would also help to know what premiums you have been quoted (send a PM if you'd prefer to keep it private).

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Mel E

[Philman]

Hi Alistair, would it not be possible to take out the insurance in New Zealand? When UK residents take their MH abroad they would normally insure in this country before going. I don't think they would go to, say, Germany and try to take out insurance.

 

Phil.

[Randonneur]

We are having a similar problem at the moment only with a car registered in the UK. We are thinking of buying a small s/hand car for when we fly back, but because we are French residents (not French Nationals) nobody will touch us, our only solution is for our Son to insure the car (he will be using it in our absence) and insure it any driver. Then hopefully there won't be a problem. Before we moved to France I had a French registered Fiesta which we used in the UK on and off for 18 months and tried to get the car insured in the UK and nobody wanted to know even the Insurance Company that had insured my previous car and I had maximum no claims. I insured it in France and there was no problem about leaving it in the UK. And they say that the European Union is about having the same or similar rules in each member state, from our experience the UK is lagging behind.

[Brian Kirby]

I met a New Zealander this spring in Pompeii who was doing exactly what you propose, even down to the secure storage.  However, it was only a passing chat so I have no contact detals.  We talked briefly about insurance, and I'm sure he said there was a firm called Downunder insurance (or similar) that could arrange this at a price.

If you have relatives in UK, I wonder how long you would need to "stay" with them to cover the insurance, and possibly registration and taxation restrictions?

Hope this helps.

[Brian Kirby]

Randonneur - 2007-01-10 2:55 PM We are having a similar problem at the moment only with a car registered in the UK. We are thinking of buying a small s/hand car for when we fly back, but because we are French residents (not French Nationals) nobody will touch us, our only solution is for our Son to insure the car (he will be using it in our absence) and insure it any driver. Then hopefully there won't be a problem. Before we moved to France I had a French registered Fiesta which we used in the UK on and off for 18 months and tried to get the car insured in the UK and nobody wanted to know even the Insurance Company that had insured my previous car and I had maximum no claims. I insured it in France and there was no problem about leaving it in the UK. And they say that the European Union is about having the same or similar rules in each member state, from our experience the UK is lagging behind.

Would you not be able to either a) buy, tax and insure a lhd car in France, then take it to UK, but with just two trips back to France per year (one for the Controle Technique), so that it isn't in UK for more than 6 months at a stretch, or b) buy a rhd car in UK, take it to France and then re-register, tax and insure it in France as above?

Finally, unless you spend extended periods in UK, how about hiring?

[alistair]

Thanks for the comments.

 

Mel E: I emailed the three companies you mentioned (amongst others) some time ago and received the standard response. I also tried writing to Saga in the hope that a letter would reach a different desk, but same result. I'm reluctant to comment on quoted premiums, but the lower of the two tourist premiums is more than three times what the present owner of the van is paying. He gets no-claims discount which I would not get initially, but my premium would be about twice his basic premium, and I have no prospect of it being reduced by future no-claims discounts.

 

Philman: I discussed with my NZ insurer the possibility of insuring it here. No luck. They have no knowledge of the UK insurance industry and vehicle repair costs, and it wouldn't be worth their while (or mine) to do the research. Another problem is that as third-party insurance is compulsory in the UK, any insurance taken out here would have to be accepted by the authorities in the UK, and I doubt that that exercise would be easy.

 

Randonneur: A difference with me is that I am trying to insure a UK registered vehicle in the UK, but it's interesting that a UK national as I presume you are has had problems.

 

Some (not all) companies also require the insured to have held a full UK driving licence for at least 12 months (for some it's 3 years). This requirement seems odd as a NZ licence can be legally used in the UK for up to 12 months. Also, in NZ, insurance companies are interested in driver's licence details only when a claim is made as it is only then that the licence is relevant. This seems sensible as they have the ability to decline a claim if the driver does not hold a legal licence, regardless of the licence status of the owner of the insured vehicle if he or she is not the driver at that time.

[alistair]

Thanks for your comments Brian. Downunder Insurance is one of the two companies I have found that offer tourist insurance, each with premiums that reflect the short-term nature of most such arrangements. Good policies and good to deal with, but expensive for long-term cover.

 

We don't have UK relatives, but have a number of friends. The term "permanent resident" is not defined by most of the insurers, but one company tried to clarify it by saying it meant that our "primary residence" had to be within the UK. Even if we had relatives whose address we could use, we couldn't declare that this was our primary residence. Any stretching of the truth could negate the isurance in the event of a claim.

[michele]

Alistair ,

Please try safeguard as suggested . I can imagine your and randoners annoyance . crazy really that's what you get for being honest citizens /people. Safegard are one of the bigger Companies I know they read this . Please tell them that you have posted on the forum and members suggested them . It's all business they like that .

 

Above all I hope you get it sorted No wonder people get into fraud buying dogy driving licences when this kind of thing happens to them .

 

They say honesty pay's makes me wonder ? (^)

[Mel E]

Alistair,

 

I did say 'talk to them' not 'email them'. You'll get much more help if you phone them because a conversation can suggest alternatives, consider what is said, and so on. It only costs 5p a minute to call the UK from NZ (at least, that's what I paid 3 years' ago), so get talking. You'll find the principals at all three companies I mentioned will be helpful - even if they cannot help themselves.

 

Otherwise your only solution is as follows:

 

1. I assume you have family or close friends in the UK.

 

2. Re-register the motorhome in the UK putting them down as the 'Registered Keepers'. This does NOT, in the UK, give them any rights of ownership, but, for most insurers, a vehicle's registered keeper has to be the lead driver on the insurance.

 

3. Then get them to insure it for any driver over 35 years of age (this is a lot cheaper than 'any driver').

 

You can check before you start whether the insurance company would have any problems with the insured lead driver lending it to some family/friends from NZ, but my guess is that it'll work. If they require a UK driving licence, then you'll just have to take the test as the quickest way of getting one - but be aware that the basic UK licence now only permits you to drive vehicles up to 3500 Kgs max loaded weight.

 

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Let us know

[maggyd]

Hi alistair I will make this short and sweet .While emptying our waste water last year a fellow countryman of yours came over to chat and was telling me the problem that he had insuring and Im sure if I remember right he said he managed to get fixed up with the Norwich Union . Hope you manage alright Good Luck.

[Brian Kirby]

Alistair

You may fine this link useful http://www.magbaztravels.com/content/view/340/27/ .  I know they're Auzzies and not Kiwis, but the problem seems that same.

[alistair]

Thanks to all for suggestions and comments. That's an interesting link, Brian. Quite a (dare I say it) saga. It's not clear to me how they got around the permanent resident requirement, but it obviously worked. The comments from the insurance industry person explained a few things, but doesn't make the requirements any more sensible.

 

I'll persevere with contacting insurers - perhaps I'll wear someone down eventually! Meantime, I look forward to more comments and suggestions on this forum.