Your 5 top tips for new MH owner

[RubyExsis]

Best wishes with the new motorhome, Skydog.

A technical guru, I am not .

But there are some very wise and experienced 'motorhomers' on this forum, who's advice I would generally rate above most salespersons and dealers .

At the very least carefully revisit the detailed spec and options with the dealer to be on the safe side.

Then enjoy your van to the full at every opportunity.

[StuartO]

My top tips to a newcomer planning to order a new MH are:

 

1. Anticipate learning from your first time choice and try to avoid lsoing too much money when you decide to replace it after a year or two.
2. Enquire carefully into the payload of your chosen MH and don't assume that the manufacturer's figure is what you will have available.
3. Think carefully about the weight of accessories before you fit the ones which will become permanent attachments, such as wind-out awnings and roof air conditioning, and try to do wihout them to start with, to retain flexibility.
4. Remember that there are many ways to enjoy motorhoming and the KISS principle applies to discovering the optimum for you, which it will take you time to discover.

5. If you think that staying in UK, using CAMC and C&CSites, always being on EHU and being tucked away watching television after 7pm is what will appeal to you, save yourself the investment in a MH and stay in top class hotels instead; you won't have to cater for yourself or even make the beds - and it will be considerably cheaper.

[colin]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 9:09 PM

 

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-10-28 6:10 PM

 

On The 365.L chassis made by fiat you can have also 3850. Same as a alko 38L bolted to fiat36.5 L. Or the fiat heavy.

Hi Monique

How is that?

 

Front axle 1.85t+rear axle 2t= 3.85t

The problem esp on a longer MH is it's the rear axle that becomes overloaded before you get anywhere near 3.85. As per the other thread you might also upgrade the rear axle by fitting air suspension and high load index tyres, but for me the solution is to start with the best option.

[Derek Uzzell]

The Fiat Ducato ‘light’ chassis on which a Rapido 696F is normally built has a maximum permitted overall weight and maximum permitted front and rear axle loadings of, respectively, 3650kg, 1850kg and 2000kg.

 

Rapido also offers the 696F model on the ‘light’ chassis with the same 1850kg/2000kg axle-loading maxima, but with the maximum permitted overall weight reduced from 3650kg to 3500kg.

 

The 696F model can also be specified on a Fiat Ducato ‘heavy’ chassis, when the maximum permitted overall weight and maximum permitted front and rear axle loadings will be, respectively, 4400kg, 2100kg and 2400kg.

 

Rapido specifies a 696F’s ‘mass in running order’ weight to include allowances for a 75kg driver, one 13kg (French) gas-bottle, 20 litres of fresh-water and a 90%-full fuel tank, and with a +/-5% build-weight tolerance. That weight value will relate to a basic-specification 696F and any factory-fitted options (eg. drop-down roof bed, gas oven, 2nd leisure battery, 150 motor instead of the 130, Comfort-Matic transmission, 16” wheels) will add to the running-order figure.

 

It’s likely that a standard-specification 3500kg 696F will be tight on payload and on the rear-axle load-maximum and, although opting for the 3650kg variant will assist with payload, this won’t help with the axle loading.

 

Rapido does not offer a Ducato ‘light chassis’ model with a maximum overall weight above 3650kg. Fiat will not authorise 3rd-party uprating (eg. by SVTech) beyond 3650kg, and choosing to have this done should be expected to result in the Fiat warranty being compromised.

 

The £3070 supplement quoted by Skydog’s dealer for choosing a 696F on a Ducato ‘heavy’ chassis may be correct, but needs looking at in more detail. This is because a Ducato ‘heavy’ version of a 696F includes within its standard specification certain things that are cost-options on the Ducato ‘light’ version. For example, a ‘heavy’ 696F has as standard the 150bhp motor, ESP/traction+ and 16” wheels, all of which are cost-options on the ‘light’ version. So, the difference in overall price between a standard-specification ‘heavy’ 696F and a ‘light’ 696F with an augmented specification may not be as much as it first seems.

 

Rapido will order from Fiat a chassis to match a buyer’s demands and it needs emphasising strongly that, once that order gets into the Fiat system, changing it may not be practicable. So if Skydog decides that having a 696F on a Ducato ‘heavy’ chassis would be a good idea (and it would) the original order needs changing without delay.

[crocs]

It's extremely difficult tracking down a Rapido price list but, comparing prices offered at dealers for 2018 delivery, the 150bhp engine seems to add c£1300 to the standard cost. So, that should be deducted immediately from the £3070 difference if that also includes the engine upgrade. But, as I said, Rapido seem to hide their price list so difficult to be certain.

[Barryd999]

1. Make sure you get a proper hand over and video it or make notes to make sure you know how everything works both when off hookup and on hookup. You will cock it up on your first night alone somewhere

 

2. Regarding hookup.. Make sure the van is totally self sufficient to go off grid which is what motorhoming is all about IMO, not tied to some campsite and EHU umbilical cord. So make sure all your stuff can run on 12v. 12v chargers for laptops, tablets, 12v tv etc.

 

3. Re above, consider solar panels

 

4. For more independence and ease of travel especially in mainland Europe consider refilable gas LPG tanks or bottles (Gaslow is what I have)

 

5. As already said, dont rush out and buy every accessory under the sun until you find out what you really need and what you dont. Our requirements are all different. I have a rule that if its not used in a month or two its removed.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Reluctance to publish UK prices is common to many continental manufacturers at present. In most cases this is due to Brexit uncertainties causing fluctuations in the value of the £, meaning that future Sterling values cannot reliably be forecast.

[malc d]

My tips would be not to go too far, or for too long on your first trip - and don't buy a load of extras recommended by others until you find that YOU actually need them.

 

Enjoy !

 

;-)

[Skydog1955]

Thank you all for your very helpful advice, much appreciated.

A quick update on the payload issue. The deal I have already includes for 16" alloys (£660) and ESP & traction control (£530) therefore based on the price the numbty at the dealer quoted me yesterday for the heavy chassis/150hp upgrade at £3070 should equate to an additional cost of £3070 - £660 - £530 = £1880, and that's the figure I'll push back to the sensible salesguy I ordered from.

[Alanb]

globebuster - 2017-10-28 10:20 AM

 

Never buy a new van as your first van

 

Never buy a new van as your second van

 

Contemplate buying a new van as your third van

 

Check the payload on every prospective purchase

 

Always have a decent sized external locker

 

 

We did our research, and broke the first rule 26 years ago.

 

Many years later, after more extensive research we broke the second rule.

 

May not survive long enough to consider the third rule.

 

Our choice of smaller, manouverable, and parkable vehicles resolved payload issues.

 

Yes we would have liked more external storage than that given by a generous gas bottle locker on our first vehicle, but we resolved this by making some internal improvemente.

 

We did not regret our choices, of Pilote R390, and IH Tio R

 

My OH suggests a sixth point, namely adequate kitchen workspace. Some vehicle layouts do seem to skimp in this area.

 

Alan

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-29 12:00 PM

 

Thank you all for your very helpful advice, much appreciated.

A quick update on the payload issue. The deal I have already includes for 16" alloys (£660) and ESP & traction control (£530) therefore based on the price the numbty at the dealer quoted me yesterday for the heavy chassis/150hp upgrade at £3070 should equate to an additional cost of £3070 - £660 - £530 = £1880, and that's the figure I'll push back to the sensible salesguy I ordered from.

I think I'd leave him to tell you how much it would cost to take the specification you already have, and transfer it onto the heavy chassis - taking into account that you have already specified at least some of the items that are tied into the chassis upgrade, and then either show you the calculation, or a price list, so that you have a clear idea of where the money is going. In short, let him do the work, and justify it. You may, for example, find that the 16" alloys you have presently specified are unsuited to the hubs on the heavy chassis. However, I also think I'd stick with the ESP and traction control, which may prove useful.

[Robbo]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-29 12:00 PM

 

Thank you all for your very helpful advice, much appreciated.

A quick update on the payload issue. The deal I have already includes for 16" alloys (£660) and ESP & traction control (£530) therefore based on the price the numbty at the dealer quoted me yesterday for the heavy chassis/150hp upgrade at £3070 should equate to an additional cost of £3070 - £660 - £530 = £1880, and that's the figure I'll push back to the sensible salesguy I ordered from.

 

I would be inclined not to mention the £1880, to avoid possibly shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I can't imagine a chassis upgrade would cost £1880. More like low £1000+, if that. The additional materials to produce a heavy chassis are probably less than £200 (pure guestimate). It could be that the heavy chassis is not normally requested, so it commands a higher premium price tag (ie. Rapido probably buy the light chassis in bulk at a discount, as most European sales are for the 3500Kg chassis, mainly because of EU driving licence restrictions).

 

First, ask the question, and then introduce your £1880 figure, if their figure is higher.

 

Since you've already specified 16" wheels, the other option is to retrofit semi-air suspension to the rear axle which should boost your permissible rear axle load, possibly to 2240Kg. However, you need to check with SV Tech before considering this option. The fitment of semi-air suspension and paperwork should be less than £1000.

[crocs]

Brian Kirby - 2017-10-29 11:04 AM

 

Reluctance to publish UK prices is common to many continental manufacturers at present. In most cases this is due to Brexit uncertainties causing fluctuations in the value of the £, meaning that future Sterling values cannot reliably be forecast.

 

I think you might be right Brian. So they could just publish it in Euros and let us make our own conversion. Better that than working in the dark.

[crocs]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-29 12:00 PM

 

Thank you all for your very helpful advice, much appreciated.

A quick update on the payload issue. The deal I have already includes for 16" alloys (£660) and ESP & traction control (£530) therefore based on the price the numbty at the dealer quoted me yesterday for the heavy chassis/150hp upgrade at £3070 should equate to an additional cost of £3070 - £660 - £530 = £1880, and that's the figure I'll push back to the sensible salesguy I ordered from.

 

I thought you said that you had already specced the 150bhp engine? If so, the £1300 for that needs to be deducted from your calculation also. But, as others have said, never be the one to offer first in a negotiation. Ask the dealer to break down the price for the spec you want and negotiate from there.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

How much is that a little ride height higher in fact for 16 inch? And what is the definition of the ride height for a RV vehicle? The fiat pull is now called 36.5L by the germans instead of 35L thanks to our plate discussion. AL-KO can bolt on their 38L to the fiat above but again the 3850 kg figure appears instead of 38.5L.Any way the wind blows on the fiat light and can be used to 3850. And all the wheels and tyres listed in their homlogation papers including m+s tyres.In case your payload does not match go for the heavy. Or in case of b-licence go for a van whit large payload.

[Guest pelmetman]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 8:01 AM

 

Hi all, just ordered our first MH, what would be your 5 top tips for a newbie?

 

1.....Wine

 

2.....Corkscrew just in case they're not screw tops

 

3.....Open and enjoy B-) ........

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

crocs - 2017-10-29 3:55 PM

 

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-29 12:00 PM

 

Thank you all for your very helpful advice, much appreciated.

A quick update on the payload issue. The deal I have already includes for 16" alloys (£660) and ESP & traction control (£530) therefore based on the price the numbty at the dealer quoted me yesterday for the heavy chassis/150hp upgrade at £3070 should equate to an additional cost of £3070 - £660 - £530 = £1880, and that's the figure I'll push back to the sensible salesguy I ordered from.

 

I thought you said that you had already specced the 150bhp engine? If so, the £1300 for that needs to be deducted from your calculation also. But, as others have said, never be the one to offer first in a negotiation. Ask the dealer to break down the price for the spec you want and negotiate from there.

 

Although a UK Rapido price-list may not be available on-line and pricing is not included in Rapido’s advertising brochure or technical documentation, there should be no difficulty obtaining a UK price-list from a UK Rapido dealership.

 

The cost of a new Rapido motorhome starts with a price for the basic-specification model to which the prices of ‘equipment packs’ can be added. An equipment pack comprises a number of items (heated mirrors, passenger air-bag, cruise control, etc., or a reversing-camera system, entrance-door flyscreen, Remis cab-blinds etc.) and the cost of the pack will be significantly less than the total price of the items had they been specified separately. Some items (motor upgrade, fog-lights, different upholstery, uprated heater, etc.) can be chosen individually and each will have a defined price.

 

The 2018 696F “Premium Edition” model is part of Rapido's 6F range, but (as will be seen from this link)

 

http://www.rapido-motorhome.co.uk/rapido_novelties_premium-edition_rapido-696f-premium-edition.phtml

 

has an enhanced specification. Several expensive items that would be in add-on ‘packs' for other 6F models become standard for a 696F. As the 696F is unique in Rapido’s 6F range, although it should be apparent from Rapido’s technical documentation what comes as standard with this model and what is a cost option, some care needs to be taken when choosing between a 3500kg/3650kg ‘light’ version or a 4400kg ‘heavy’.

 

Let’s assume a buyer of a 696F ‘light’ model wishes to upgrade the vehicle’s standard specification to include ESP/Traction+, a 150bhp motor and 16” alloy wheels. (The 696F comes with Fiat 15” alloy wheels as standard, but opting for 16” wheels will still cost substantially more.) However, if the 696F is to be in ‘heavy chassis’ format, ESP/Traction+, a 150bhp motor and Fiat 16” alloy wheels (a different design to the 16” ‘light’ ones) are now standard. In fact, if the cost of opting for a ‘heavy’ 696F, as opposed to a 3650kg light’ 696F having ESP/Traction+, a 150bhp motor and 16” alloy wheels, is ‘only’ around £3k, the ‘heavy’ version looks like a bit of a bargain.

 

Skydog1955 will know how the cost of his current order for a Rapido 696F ‘light’ is structured and, for a realistic finacial comparison between that deal and the price of a 696F ‘heavy’, I believe it would be better for the price of the latter to be calculated from scratch rather than complicating matters by subtracting the cost of ‘light’ options that will not be relevant to the ‘heavy’ version.

[crocs]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-30 8:05 AM

 

crocs - 2017-10-29 3:55 PM

 

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-29 12:00 PM

 

Thank you all for your very helpful advice, much appreciated.

A quick update on the payload issue. The deal I have already includes for 16" alloys (£660) and ESP & traction control (£530) therefore based on the price the numbty at the dealer quoted me yesterday for the heavy chassis/150hp upgrade at £3070 should equate to an additional cost of £3070 - £660 - £530 = £1880, and that's the figure I'll push back to the sensible salesguy I ordered from.

 

I thought you said that you had already specced the 150bhp engine? If so, the £1300 for that needs to be deducted from your calculation also. But, as others have said, never be the one to offer first in a negotiation. Ask the dealer to break down the price for the spec you want and negotiate from there.

 

Although a UK Rapido price-list may not be available on-line and pricing is not included in Rapido’s advertising brochure or technical documentation, there should be no difficulty obtaining a UK price-list from a UK Rapido dealership.

 

The cost of a new Rapido motorhome starts with a price for the basic-specification model to which the prices of ‘equipment packs’ can be added. An equipment pack comprises a number of items (heated mirrors, passenger air-bag, cruise control, etc., or a reversing-camera system, entrance-door flyscreen, Remis cab-blinds etc.) and the cost of the pack will be significantly less than the total price of the items had they been specified separately. Some items (motor upgrade, fog-lights, different upholstery, uprated heater, etc.) can be chosen individually and each will have a defined price.

 

The 2018 696F “Premium Edition” model is part of Rapido's 6F range, but (as will be seen from this link)

 

http://www.rapido-motorhome.co.uk/rapido_novelties_premium-edition_rapido-696f-premium-edition.phtml

 

has an enhanced specification. Several expensive items that would be in add-on ‘packs' for other 6F models become standard for a 696F. As the 696F is unique in Rapido’s 6F range, although it should be apparent from Rapido’s technical documentation what comes as standard with this model and what is a cost option, some care needs to be taken when choosing between a 3500kg/3650kg ‘light’ version or a 4400kg ‘heavy’.

 

Let’s assume a buyer of a 696F ‘light’ model wishes to upgrade the vehicle’s standard specification to include ESP/Traction+, a 150bhp motor and 16” alloy wheels. (The 696F comes with Fiat 15” alloy wheels as standard, but opting for 16” wheels will still cost substantially more.) However, if the 696F is to be in ‘heavy chassis’ format, ESP/Traction+, a 150bhp motor and Fiat 16” alloy wheels (a different design to the 16” ‘light’ ones) are now standard. In fact, if the cost of opting for a ‘heavy’ 696F, as opposed to a 3650kg light’ 696F having ESP/Traction+, a 150bhp motor and 16” alloy wheels, is ‘only’ around £3k, the ‘heavy’ version looks like a bit of a bargain.

 

Skydog1955 will know how the cost of his current order for a Rapido 696F ‘light’ is structured and, for a realistic finacial comparison between that deal and the price of a 696F ‘heavy’, I believe it would be better for the price of the latter to be calculated from scratch rather than complicating matters by subtracting the cost of ‘light’ options that will not be relevant to the ‘heavy’ version.

 

Yes, I would also start from scratch and, hopefully, that's what Skydog 1955 will do before he starts to negotiate. I think what people are doing is to try and help Skydog 1955 understand that switching to a 'heavy chassis' might not be nearly as expensive as he first thought. It's a pity Rapido don't publish a price list online as it would make it a lot easier to compare.

[Derek Uzzell]

I’m not sure if an ‘itemised’ 2018 UK price-list is currently available on-line for any French motorhome manufacturer.

 

When I was considering buying a Rapido in late-2014 I had an itemised French-language Rapido price-list for the forthcoming 2015 model-year, but naturally the prices on that list were in euros.

 

I knew that, if I bought a Rapido, it would be the 640F model and, as I had Rapido’s 2015 model-year brochure and technical documentation, I was aware of the 640F options that were available and could decide which of those I would probably choose to specify. I asked Highbridge Caravan Centre (the nearest Rapido agent to where I live) to send me a price-list and that’s what they did. In fact, having concluded the deal in October 2014, by the time the motorhome was delivered in April 2015 the agreed price had reduced somewhat due to a sterling/euro variation.

 

In 2014 opting for the 150bhp motor over the 130bhp one cost £1160, while the ‘heavy’ chassis option was priced at £2240. But the £2240 price included the 150bhp motor and ESP/Traction+ (£460 otherwise) and, of course, the ‘heavy’ chassis had as standard uprated brakes/suspension, 16” wheels and gearing to match.

 

The critical thing (and it does not just apply to Rapidos) is to be able to assess the likelihood of a motorhome model exceeding its weight maxima - something that a ’newbie’ to motorcaravanning may well overlook unless forewarned.

[Skydog1955]

Hi All

Thanks for all the good advice regarding payload, thanks to you all I have managed to rectify the one issue I would have had, I have upgraded to the "heavy" chassis (additional 40kg) saving me the potential overloadiing issues later down the line. Due to having already purchased the 150bhp engine + ESP + 16" alloys the additional upgrade cost is minimal (just over £400) and certainly worth it for the piece of mind.

[colin]

Well that's a good outcome, it's still unlikely you'll be able to utalise the full 4.25t MAM(I think that's the new figure?), but it should give you a good payload without overloading the rear axle which was very likely on the light chassis.

BTW a belated welcome to the world of motorhomes(and all the pitfalls it has) :D

[crocs]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-30 2:17 PM

 

Hi All

Thanks for all the good advice regarding payload, thanks to you all I have managed to rectify the one issue I would have had, I have upgraded to the "heavy" chassis (additional 40kg) saving me the potential overloadiing issues later down the line. Due to having already purchased the 150bhp engine + ESP + 16" alloys the additional upgrade cost is minimal (just over £400) and certainly worth it for the piece of mind.

 

That's a result!

[Brian Kirby]

Skydog1955 - 2017-10-30 2:17 PM

 

Hi All

Thanks for all the good advice regarding payload, thanks to you all I have managed to rectify the one issue I would have had, I have upgraded to the "heavy" chassis (additional 40kg) saving me the potential overloadiing issues later down the line. Due to having already purchased the 150bhp engine + ESP + 16" alloys the additional upgrade cost is minimal (just over £400) and certainly worth it for the piece of mind.

Well done. You'll never be able to compare heavy with light on the same van, but I'm reliably informed that the maxi chassis has a number of worthwhile features in addition to the increased axle loads and MAM, especially "beefier" wheel hubs and brakes, but also that it is generally a more "planted" drive than the light chassis. At £400, I reckon that really is good value.

 

I don't know why manufacturers piddle around with a chassis that is stretched to its limits and gives barely sufficient payload, on their larger vans. Were it to become necessary, it can easily be down-plated to 3,500kg MAM - though you'd really struggle with payload at that weight, so it's a £400 win-win!

[Robbo]

Very pleased to here Skydog1955 has received a very attractive upgrade price for the heavy chassis.

 

Hope the change in spec won't delay the delivery date.

 

It would be interesting to know the permissible front and rear axle loads for the 4400Kg chassis.

 

Well done Skydog1955. Your 11 year old will no longer need to go on a diet. 8-)

[Derek Uzzell]

I said earlier in this thread that the maximum axle-loadings for a 2018 Rapido motorhome built on the 4400kg Ducato ‘heavy’ camping-car chassis were 2100kg (front-axle) and 2400kg (rear-axle) but the rear-axle loading may well be 2500kg.

 

This article

 

http://www.motorhomefulltime.com/vehicle/fiat-ducato-come-4x4

 

says

 

"The current generation of Ducato, the sixth, called the X290, boasts the highest total ground weight in the segment (up to 4400 kilograms on motorhome version or 4250 kilograms on the van version), in addition to the highest loads on the front axle (up to 2100 kg) and rear axle for vehicles with single-wheel rear axles (up to 2500 kilograms) and the highest payload. It is also available with air suspension on the rear axle.”