Skydog1955 Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 Robbo - 2017-10-30 6:01 PM Very pleased to here Skydog1955 has received a very attractive upgrade price for the heavy chassis. Hope the change in spec won't delay the delivery date. It would be interesting to know the permissible front and rear axle loads for the 4400Kg chassis. Well done Skydog1955. Your 11 year old will no longer need to go on a diet. 8-) She'll be pleased about that haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Skydog Returning to your original enquiry, now that the potential payload problem has been very satisfactorily resolved and there will be a several months wait before you take delivery of your Rapido motorhome, I’m going to suggest that you (and perhaps your wife too) start educating yourself about motorcaravanning generally and your Rapido in particular. If ’newbie’ means that you have no caravanning experience to draw on, there’s a good deal of useful information on the Motohome and Caravan Club and Camping and Caravanning Club websites https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/ http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/ and on this website as well https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/ I also suggest you put this book on your Xmas list https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcaravan-Manual-Choosing-Using-Maintaining/dp/0857331248 Motorhomes are complex organisms, and while your dealer should provide a handover explaining how your 696F’s features function, the more familiar you are with the vehicle beforehand the more valuable the handover will be. I’ve trained adults in the distant past and their attention span is rarely great (and I include myself in that observation ;-) ). There is a lot of on-line ‘technical’ information that you can familiarise yourself with in advance of the handover. This may well produce plenty of questions, but at least you will know what you don’t understand. An Owner Handbook for the Ducato base-vehicle can be viewed/downloaded from a Fiat website (example here) https://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/Model.aspx?brand_code=77&id_language=2&id_model=68029060-87d1-471a-9734-d4a5c76e02ee&market_code=EN_EU&cat=lib&part_number=#1 User guides for the Truma equipment are here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/combi_gb/combi_ues_gb.html https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34030_71300.pdf https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/50_000/50050_15200.pdf https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/gasvers_freizeit_gb/duocontrol_cs_gb.html I think the 696F will have a Thetford 300-series fridge-freezer and a Thetford C260 toilet. User-information for such appliances can be found here https://www.thetford-europe.com/product-category/ Apparently a 696F will have a Kenwood multimedia system (not the Pioneer units Rapido has fitted in the past). I don’t know which Kenwood model that will be, but if you can find out you may be able to access user information about it from the Kenwood website http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/car/ (It will undoubtedly be hideously complicated and you’ll probably need the complete user-manual to exploit its full functionality.) There will be other stuff (eg. the cooking equipment) but that’s a start. If it’s practicable, I suggest you inspect your 696F very carefully twice - as soon as it arrives at your dealer’s premises and again at the handover. The first inspection would allow you to visually check that nothing is damaged and that basic things like cupboard doors open and shut properly, and to familiarise yourself with where everything is. Don’t think that Rapido’s quality-control is 100% perfect - it isn’t. The initial inspection might also allow you to get your hands on the motorhome’s full documentation, including Rapido’s User Manual that is not available on-line. You’ll need gas, water and electricity to use the motorhome, which basically will require at least one gas-bottle, a hose to fill the fresh-water tank and a cable to connect to a 230V power-supply. Check with your dealer if they will be providing any of these. (There will be other things you’ll require, but you can deal with those later.) I suggest you treat the handover stage pragmatically and restrain excitement. (Might be wise not to take your child with you for the handover...) Check that you understand the terms and conditions of the Fiat and Rapido warranty (which requires an annual water-ingress check but not an annual ‘habitation service') and have the relevant documentation. Check that you have two sets of Fiat ignition keys and two sets of Rapido keys. Check once again for damage. Ask for the gas, water and electrical systems to be demonstrated. Check how much diesel fuel the dealer is ‘giving’ you - you don’t want to run out on your way home. Keep the five Ps in mind http://www.jenniferbrouwerdesign.com/blog/2011/12/the-5-ps-of-success-%E2%80%93-proper-planning-prevents-poor-performance/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 In all my sales training Derek it was the 6 "P's"! ........ I'll leave it to your imagination? Tee Hee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 There are versions of this adage right up to 12 Ps, but 5 Ps is enough for a ‘family’ forum. There are also multiple-Fs adages (an inoffensive example here) http://www.business2community.com/marketing/5-fs-fantastic-marketing-campaign-0959512#qTRGgx4fsvL8fmAK.97 including one about taking notice of other people’s opinions. I’ve always thought this could be applied to motorhome forums, but it’s far too rude to describe here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-10-31 8:29 AM Skydog Returning to your original enquiry, now that the potential payload problem has been very satisfactorily resolved and there will be a several months wait before you take delivery of your Rapido motorhome, I’m going to suggest that you (and perhaps your wife too) start educating yourself about motorcaravanning generally and your Rapido in particular. If ’newbie’ means that you have no caravanning experience to draw on, there’s a good deal of useful information on the Motohome and Caravan Club and Camping and Caravanning Club websites https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/ http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/ and on this website as well https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/ I also suggest you put this book on your Xmas list https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcaravan-Manual-Choosing-Using-Maintaining/dp/0857331248 Motorhomes are complex organisms, and while your dealer should provide a handover explaining how your 696F’s features function, the more familiar you are with the vehicle beforehand the more valuable the handover will be. I’ve trained adults in the distant past and their attention span is rarely great (and I include myself in that observation ;-) ). There is a lot of on-line ‘technical’ information that you can familiarise yourself with in advance of the handover. This may well produce plenty of questions, but at least you will know what you don’t understand. An Owner Handbook for the Ducato base-vehicle can be viewed/downloaded from a Fiat website (example here) https://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/Model.aspx?brand_code=77&id_language=2&id_model=68029060-87d1-471a-9734-d4a5c76e02ee&market_code=EN_EU&cat=lib&part_number=#1 User guides for the Truma equipment are here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/combi_gb/combi_ues_gb.html https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34030_71300.pdf https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/50_000/50050_15200.pdf https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/gasvers_freizeit_gb/duocontrol_cs_gb.html I think the 696F will have a Thetford 300-series fridge-freezer and a Thetford C260 toilet. User-information for such appliances can be found here https://www.thetford-europe.com/product-category/ Apparently a 696F will have a Kenwood multimedia system (not the Pioneer units Rapido has fitted in the past). I don’t know which Kenwood model that will be, but if you can find out you may be able to access user information about it from the Kenwood website http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/car/ (It will undoubtedly be hideously complicated and you’ll probably need the complete user-manual to exploit its full functionality.) There will be other stuff (eg. the cooking equipment) but that’s a start. If it’s practicable, I suggest you inspect your 696F very carefully twice - as soon as it arrives at your dealer’s premises and again at the handover. The first inspection would allow you to visually check that nothing is damaged and that basic things like cupboard doors open and shut properly, and to familiarise yourself with where everything is. Don’t think that Rapido’s quality-control is 100% perfect - it isn’t. The initial inspection might also allow you to get your hands on the motorhome’s full documentation, including Rapido’s User Manual that is not available on-line. You’ll need gas, water and electricity to use the motorhome, which basically will require at least one gas-bottle, a hose to fill the fresh-water tank and a cable to connect to a 230V power-supply. Check with your dealer if they will be providing any of these. (There will be other things you’ll require, but you can deal with those later.) I suggest you treat the handover stage pragmatically and restrain excitement. (Might be wise not to take your child with you for the handover...) Check that you understand the terms and conditions of the Fiat and Rapido warranty (which requires an annual water-ingress check but not an annual ‘habitation service') and have the relevant documentation. Check that you have two sets of Fiat ignition keys and two sets of Rapido keys. Check once again for damage. Ask for the gas, water and electrical systems to be demonstrated. Check how much diesel fuel the dealer is ‘giving’ you - you don’t want to run out on your way home. Keep the five Ps in mind http://www.jenniferbrouwerdesign.com/blog/2011/12/the-5-ps-of-success-%E2%80%93-proper-planning-prevents-poor-performance/ Invaluable help Derek, thanks a lot. Looks like I've a lot to take in between now and March! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Skydog1955 - 2017-10-31 4:35 PM.................................Invaluable help Derek, thanks a lot. Looks like I've a lot to take in between now and March! Just one thing I'd add, because it seems to catch out quite a few people getting their first motorhome. It isn't clear yet (possibly to you either! :-)) how you will use your van. I'm assuming that the 11 year old means you will be restricted to school holiday times, plus perhaps the odd weekend. I'm also assuming that much of your use will be in UK, and will probably involve campsites with 230V power connection. Nevertheless (and with my apologies if you already know all this! :-)), you will undoubtedly have noted that motorhomes are generally promoted/marketed as having considerable autonomy. You have gas for heating and cooking, you have hot and cold running water, you have a toilet, wash basin, shower, kitchen sink, fridge or fridge-freezer, lighting etc. etc., and it is just like home, except smaller! All true, up to Lord Copper's famous point. :-D Underlying nearly of those home-from-home facilities is a 12V habitation battery. It runs the heater, it (probably) ignites the cooker, it runs the water pump, it (probably) flushes the toilet, it powers the fridge controls, and it supplies the energy for lighting. It is re-charged via a built-in charger when connected to mains, and from the vehicle alternator when driving. In the absence of both of these, the battery discharges until, if you don't keep an eye on its state of charge, it becomes completely flat and nothing works. Most habitation batteries are in the region of 85 - 100 Ah capacity but, as a fairly safe rule of thumb, they should not be discharged below 50% of their rated capacity, or damage (to the battery) results. Many people seem to fall into the trap of running everything until the lights begin to dim, or little red lights begin flashing on the control panel. When that happens, the battery voltage has dropped comprehensively into the damage zone and, the more often the exercise is repeated, the greater the damage inflicted. So, if not connected to mains, don't expect to get more than two to three days out of the battery before re-charging it, don't allow its state of charge to fall below 50%, and do allow the battery time to fully re-charge as soon as possible after it has been discharged. If the battery is to be re-charged while driving, this can mean driving for several hours, depending on its state of discharge when you set out. If by connecting the van to mains (which is generally kinder to the battery), allow it to charge overnight. Then, once you have gained experience of your usage, and seen how the battery performs, you can begin to take liberties but, with the exception of certain battery types, you'll still need to observe that 50% discharge limit, and even where the battery type claims to be suitable for "deep discharge", it will still be wise not to go much beyond 50%, possibly up to 60% but, if you want to keep it in good condition, no further. Battery technology continually evolves, the subject would fill at least one book, and I'm no expert, but if you can stick to the above general guidelines your battery should last you for at least 4 years, assuming, as I'd expect of them, Rapido fit a decent battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-10-31 5:41 PM Skydog1955 - 2017-10-31 4:35 PM.................................Invaluable help Derek, thanks a lot. Looks like I've a lot to take in between now and March! Just one thing I'd add, because it seems to catch out quite a few people getting their first motorhome. It isn't clear yet (possibly to you either! :-)) how you will use your van. I'm assuming that the 11 year old means you will be restricted to school holiday times, plus perhaps the odd weekend. I'm also assuming that much of your use will be in UK, and will probably involve campsites with 230V power connection. Nevertheless (and with my apologies if you already know all this! :-)), you will undoubtedly have noted that motorhomes are generally promoted/marketed as having considerable autonomy. You have gas for heating and cooking, you have hot and cold running water, you have a toilet, wash basin, shower, kitchen sink, fridge or fridge-freezer, lighting etc. etc., and it is just like home, except smaller! All true, up to Lord Copper's famous point. :-D Underlying nearly of those home-from-home facilities is a 12V habitation battery. It runs the heater, it (probably) ignites the cooker, it runs the water pump, it (probably) flushes the toilet, it powers the fridge controls, and it supplies the energy for lighting. It is re-charged via a built-in charger when connected to mains, and from the vehicle alternator when driving. In the absence of both of these, the battery discharges until, if you don't keep an eye on its state of charge, it becomes completely flat and nothing works. Most habitation batteries are in the region of 85 - 100 Ah capacity but, as a fairly safe rule of thumb, they should not be discharged below 50% of their rated capacity, or damage (to the battery) results. Many people seem to fall into the trap of running everything until the lights begin to dim, or little red lights begin flashing on the control panel. When that happens, the battery voltage has dropped comprehensively into the damage zone and, the more often the exercise is repeated, the greater the damage inflicted. So, if not connected to mains, don't expect to get more than two to three days out of the battery before re-charging it, don't allow its state of charge to fall below 50%, and do allow the battery time to fully re-charge as soon as possible after it has been discharged. If the battery is to be re-charged while driving, this can mean driving for several hours, depending on its state of discharge when you set out. If by connecting the van to mains (which is generally kinder to the battery), allow it to charge overnight. Then, once you have gained experience of your usage, and seen how the battery performs, you can begin to take liberties but, with the exception of certain battery types, you'll still need to observe that 50% discharge limit, and even where the battery type claims to be suitable for "deep discharge", it will still be wise not to go much beyond 50%, possibly up to 60% but, if you want to keep it in good condition, no further. Battery technology continually evolves, the subject would fill at least one book, and I'm no expert, but if you can stick to the above general guidelines your battery should last you for at least 4 years, assuming, as I'd expect of them, Rapido fit a decent battery. Thanks Brian I had considered this, hence the additional battery and 120W solar panel purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Skydog1955 - 2017-10-31 4:35 PM ...Invaluable help Derek, thanks a lot. Looks like I've a lot to take in between now and March! The dealer that you will be buying your motorhome from will be making a healthy profit from the transaction, and Rapido won’t be selling the vehicle at a loss. I suggest you ask the dealer to ask Rapido to provide as a goodwill gesture now a copy of the User Manual for the 696F model, so that you can familiarise yourself with the basics before the vehicle turns up next Spring. The Manual will be particularly useful for a ’newbie’ as it summarises much of the information I’ve referred to above and includes (or at least my Manual does) a separate model-specific insert that shows where all the equipment is. Rapido’s Manual is adequate, but its not a glossy leather-bound 500-page colour-photo publication and each copy won’t have cost a fortune to produce. So Rapido ought to be prepared to provide a freebie copy for a customer if the dealer asks nicely. Regarding Brian’s comments, Rapido fits as standard Banner “Energy Bull” 100Ah batteries and this link will identify some earlier forum discussions/arguments that refer to this Banner product. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=energy+bull&author=derek+uzzell&days=&Submit=Search More reading I’m afraid, but the vital thing is that you be aware from square one that “Energy Bull” batteries are NOT ’sealed for life’ and that the user needs to keep a close eye on their electrolyte-level. (Also that unscrewing the battery’s cell-caps for maintenance can prove diffficult.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-01 7:45 AM......................................More reading I’m afraid, but the vital thing is that you be aware from square one that “Energy Bull” batteries are NOT ’sealed for life’ and that the user needs to keep a close eye on their electrolyte-level. (Also that unscrewing the battery’s cell-caps for maintenance can prove diffficult.) Then it will also be worth clarifying whether the second battery and solar panel will be dealer fit, or factory fit. This can be a little "glossed over" in the paperwork. If the former, it will also be worth checking that the battery will be of the same type as the original (ideally same size, make, chemistry and within a month or two, age), and also that the solar charger is fully compatible with the mains charging unit supplied by Rapido. Not all dealers get these right (though things fitted by Rapido should be correct), and non-paired batteries can result in diminished performance, while incompatible solar chargers can result in over-charged batteries and, consequently, shortened battery life. Sorry to be the perpetual Jerimiah! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 When I ordered my 2015-model-year Rapido there was a £120 factory-option to specify a “box and cabling for a 2nd habitation battery”. This comprised a shallow ’tray’ (in metal I think) with some retention straps, plus electrical cabling to connect the 2nd battery to the original one, but the 2nd battery had to be purchased separately. From model-year-2016 onwards the option was revised to a “second living-area battery” and - as a weight addition of 27kg is quoted - I assume one now gets a combination of tray, cabling and battery. What I don’t know, though, is the option’s asking-price. Although it’s probable that Skydog will have chosen Rapido’s 2nd-battery factory-option, as there’s nothing in Rapidio’s documentation about a solar-panel system being a factory-option, that’s likely to be a dealer fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1. Best advice we got (from our dealer) was go and book yourself on a campsite close to home for a couple of nights to try things out and make sure you know how everything works. We did this and also my wife came along in the car as backup in case we were short of anything. We were - a hosepipe with the right connector on it for filling the water tank. We also found that we didn't remember how everything worked after the dealer's handover but were able to call them for advice. 2. Buy the absolute minimum in terms of accessories. This helps keep the payload down and means you will soon learn what is essential for you needs and to make life more amenable while travelling. You can generally find places on your travels where you can buy most things you need. 3. Talk to other motorhomers you meet while camping. They will give you good advice about good places and campsites/aires to visit and are generally very forthcoming in helping sort out technical problems (as are campsite staff in some cases). 4. If you're going to stay somewhere for a few nights make sure you've got all the provisions (food and drink, toiletries, etc) to last you before you set up camp. otherwise you'll have to decamp and drive somewhere to get them, which can be annoying, though isn't the end of the world. I also take a bike with panniers so can cycle to the nearest supermarket if necessary. 5. If you're going abroad get an ACSI membership. This will save you loadsamoney and pays for itself in no time. It also allows you to research campsites in advance of stopping to let you see what's on offer, e.g. campsite restaurant and bar, campsite near a lake or river, good for walks/cycling, close to a town, close to public transport. Any you can do this using the books they provide, or online via ther website, or by a donwloadable app for your phone/tablet (doesn't require network once downloaded but you need to download the maps for the countries you're visiting in advance). Good luck, and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Good advice... If it’s practicable it would be a good idea to stay the night of the hand-over-day on a campsite close to the vending dealership. I recall the owner of a new Auto-Sleepers motorhome telling me he was glad he had done this, as the morning after hand-over-day the vehicle would not start (starter-battery inexplicably flat) and the rear lights no longer functioned (modifications to the wiring-loom needed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-11-01 2:45 PM Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-01 7:45 AM......................................More reading I’m afraid, but the vital thing is that you be aware from square one that “Energy Bull” batteries are NOT ’sealed for life’ and that the user needs to keep a close eye on their electrolyte-level. (Also that unscrewing the battery’s cell-caps for maintenance can prove diffficult.) Then it will also be worth clarifying whether the second battery and solar panel will be dealer fit, or factory fit. This can be a little "glossed over" in the paperwork. If the former, it will also be worth checking that the battery will be of the same type as the original (ideally same size, make, chemistry and within a month or two, age), and also that the solar charger is fully compatible with the mains charging unit supplied by Rapido. Not all dealers get these right (though things fitted by Rapido should be correct), and non-paired batteries can result in diminished performance, while incompatible solar chargers can result in over-charged batteries and, consequently, shortened battery life. Sorry to be the perpetual Jerimiah! :-D Just to add to Brian's point about clarifying whether the solar/2nd battery will be dealer or factory fit please also check the type and specification of the all important solar charge regulator. Our Hymer had a solar arrangement fitted from new by the first owner (carried out by the supplying dealership) and I was surprised to find that it comprised a poor quality, inappropriate solar charge regulator connected directly to the batteries rather than (as Hymer advises) via the solar input port on the Schaudt Electrobloc vehicke charger. I have since been able to rectify this following very good advice gained from this forum and now have a Votronic MPPT charge controller wired directly into the Electrobloc. The difference in effectiveness is amazing and, I hope, will prevent unnecessary damage to the Electrobloc. Good luck with your purchase and welcome to the forum. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 To help you with Brian's excellent advice on not discharging the battery below 50%, I attach a chart from Yuasa that lists the voltages corresponding to various discharge levels. Note that different technology batteries have different voltage ranges. If you have the Banner Energy Bull batteries fitted, then use the 'Conventional' column. Typically 12.1v, but I wouldn't discharge a Banner that low, I would try and keep above 12.2v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Another thing to put on Skydog’s Xmas-list then - a digital multimeter. I have a Signstek VC97 multimeter that is adequate for my requirements and looks very similar to the product in this advert https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proster-Multimeter-Capacitance-Resistance-Transistor/dp/B00EYYJQOO Some alternatives here http://www.pyracantha.co.uk/top-8-best-multimeter-for-professionals-home-use-detailed-reviews/ http://www.bestadvisers.uk/multimeter?s=go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-03 1:37 PM Another thing to put on Skydog’s Xmas-list then - a digital multimeter. I have a Signstek VC97 multimeter that is adequate for my requirements and looks very similar to the product in this advert https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proster-Multimeter-Capacitance-Resistance-Transistor/dp/B00EYYJQOO Some alternatives here http://www.pyracantha.co.uk/top-8-best-multimeter-for-professionals-home-use-detailed-reviews/ http://www.bestadvisers.uk/multimeter?s=go Thanks Derek, multimeter on order from Amazon. Thanks to everyone for all the wonderful advice...keep those tips coming you lovely people :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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