flicka Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-01-11 9:10 PM NCC guidelines and to meet the criteria layed down in the C&G motorcaravan service engineer examination includes: Chassis: checking for corrosion, security of fittings and corner steadies (where fitted). body to chassis fixings, body to cab joint. Tyres, condition and age. Road lighting and reflectors. External lighting inspection for water ingress. (list edited by Flicka) D. Dave I am sure that some elements of the NCC list would be part of the Vehicle Service inspection list, especially the Tyres & Road Lights. This could appear that the NCC guidelines can be interpreted as promoting the Vehicle owner gets charged twice for the same items (i.e. Vehicle and Habitation service provider) I don't dispute that the items should be checked, but I only want to pay once and especially for anyone with any van over 3 years they will be included as part of the MOT ? Flicka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Hi Flicka, tyres and road lighting are vital to the safety of the vehicle on the road and only take a few minutes to check, say 15 minutes for all tyres and lights. As they are items that can become faulty and possibly dangerous I think it is perfectly right that they should be checked. Peter, I understand what you are saying but being VAT registered does not make a workshop reputable or competent. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 With our McLouis the first habitation service and damp check after six months were free. Although we bought in Sapin the guarantee is multi lingual so I assume a McLouis bought anywhere would have the same cover. Our McLouis dealer then charges 100€ for subsequent damp check/habitation service combined. My Fiat garage charges 27€ per hour + IVA (Spanish VAT) 16%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 peter - 2007-01-11 11:47 PM One of our local caravan and motorhome dealers charges £65.00 per hour for labour. Thats absolutely outrageous. I couldn't believe it when I saw it on their board. Are they are preying on the fears of the mechanically ignorant?. What a scandalous state of affairs. PeterYes, it is expensive. However, I don't know what you pay local to you for garage labour, but ours locally is comparable. Don't forget that, whereas the inspection is all labour, the charge has to cover much more than just the cost of the inspector's actual pay. It has to cover all the outgoings on the business as well: cost of premises, rates, heat and light, insurances, holidays, etc, etc.If you get the skilled operatives that are neded, with low and extra low voltage electrics knowledge, gas system knowledge, and fridge knowledge, you either have to have a single, multi skilled individual, or a small team. In either event, those operatives won't sell their skills to an employer for less than the market rate - why should they?If the work is done cheaply by people without those skills, it is a waste of money. It would be better to resort to DIY, at least that's cheap!The problem with the warranty conditions is that whether they are, or are not, unfair contract terms, a defect is primarily the liability of the seller. A warranty is offered by a manufacturer, under UK law, in addition to one's statutory rights, and one has no legal right to such an agreement. It seems few UK dealers will undertake warranty work on 'vans they did not sell, whatever the warranty says. They generally claim the reimbursement from the manufacturer does not cover their actual costs, so, unless they got the profit from the sale they won't play, and one can't actually force them to. One's recourse, one way or another, therefore has to be to the dealership from which the 'van was bought. Now, if you haven't had the habitation inspections carried out by an approved dealership, in accordance with the warranty conditions, imagine your reception when you are driven back to the original seller with a warranty fault. He'll just think you've cut him out to go somewhere cheaper so, especially if he can claim he'd have spotted the problem during a "proper" habitation check, I think you'll struggle. He'll know the manufacturer will probably walk away from his end of the deal because the warranty terms heven't been complied with, so he'll now be stuck with the full repair cost and no reimbursement. That may not be how it should be, but it does seem to reflect human nature and, to some extent, commercial logic. You'd probably get the repair sorted out eventually, but I'd guess eventually would become the order of the day! If for no other reason, just to teach you a lesson! These vehicles are so expensive, and are bought to use not to park in dealerships, so is it really worth forfeiting use of a £40k motorhome to save, maybe £50, or even £100, on a hab check?I agree it isn't good, it just seems to be where we are. However, it'll take a brave and rich motorhomer to pursue this present state of affairs to its logical, legal, conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Brian Kirby - 2007-01-12 1:14 PMpeter - 2007-01-11 11:47 PM One of our local caravan and motorhome dealers charges £65.00 per hour for labour. Thats absolutely outrageous. I couldn't believe it when I saw it on their board. Are they are preying on the fears of the mechanically ignorant?. What a scandalous state of affairs. PeterYes, it is expensive. However, I don't know what you pay local to you for garage labour, but ours locally is comparable. Don't forget that, whereas the inspection is all labour, the charge has to cover much more than just the cost of the inspector's actual pay. It has to cover all the outgoings on the business as well: cost of premises, rates, heat and light, insurances, holidays, etc, etc.If you get the skilled operatives that are neded, with low and extra low voltage electrics knowledge, gas system knowledge, and fridge knowledge, you either have to have a single, multi skilled individual, or a small team. In either event, those operatives won't sell their skills to an employer for less than the market rate - why should they?If the work is done cheaply by people without those skills, it is a waste of money. It would be better to resort to DIY, at least that's cheap!The problem with the warranty conditions is that whether they are, or are not, unfair contract terms, a defect is primarily the liability of the seller. A warranty is offered by a manufacturer, under UK law, in addition to one's statutory rights, and one has no legal right to such an agreement. It seems few UK dealers will undertake warranty work on 'vans they did not sell, whatever the warranty says. They generally claim the reimbursement from the manufacturer does not cover their actual costs, so, unless they got the profit from the sale they won't play, and one can't actually force them to. One's recourse, one way or another, therefore has to be to the dealership from which the 'van was bought. Now, if you haven't had the habitation inspections carried out by an approved dealership, in accordance with the warranty conditions, imagine your reception when you are driven back to the original seller with a warranty fault. He'll just think you've cut him out to go somewhere cheaper so, especially if he can claim he'd have spotted the problem during a "proper" habitation check, I think you'll struggle. He'll know the manufacturer will probably walk away from his end of the deal because the warranty terms heven't been complied with, so he'll now be stuck with the full repair cost and no reimbursement. That may not be how it should be, but it does seem to reflect human nature and, to some extent, commercial logic. You'd probably get the repair sorted out eventually, but I'd guess eventually would become the order of the day! If for no other reason, just to teach you a lesson! These vehicles are so expensive, and are bought to use not to park in dealerships, so is it really worth forfeiting use of a £40k motorhome to save, maybe £50, or even £100, on a hab check?I agree it isn't good, it just seems to be where we are. However, it'll take a brave and rich motorhomer to pursue this present state of affairs to its logical, legal, conclusion.Youre all rich in the South so it's O/K. Us up above Watford gap are the paupers of this nation so have to watch the pennies. :D I'll have you know that some of us D.I.Yers are very competent. I don't know what all the fuss is about habitation checks. It's not exactly brain surgery is it?. In my humble opinion it's mostly based on fear. Or are the converters so incompetent that their work has to be checked every year. Personally I give my van a quick once over every time we get in it, and have installed a bubble tester in the gas supply line and can see in an instant if there are any leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Now, now, Peter. Any more of that talk and I'll have to remind how much we have to pay for our hovels down here, while you all live in mansions with a couple of acres bought for half the price!!No, DIY maintanance isn't difficult, provided you know what you're doing. However, not everyone does, and paying for a proper job is the next best alternative. No other implication intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwsmith Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Clive asks in an earlier post-"Whoever put in the Pace box should be stumping up to put this right! C. Is that your piccy then? "I think it looks like Hayley Mills to me or were you her double Michele? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 peter - 2007-01-12 8:44 PM and have installed a bubble tester in the gas supply line and can see in an instant if there are any leaks. Peter This sounds like a good idea to me, could you give some details, please. What are they called, Where to get them ? Regards Flicka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 flicka - 2007-01-13 9:45 AM peter - 2007-01-12 8:44 PM and have installed a bubble tester in the gas supply line and can see in an instant if there are any leaks. Peter This sounds like a good idea to me, could you give some details, please. What are they called, Where to get them ? Regards Flicka Ah yes, but the hard part is finding a shop to get the bubble for the tester from, you used to be able to get them in days gone by along with the long stands but I suspect no more .... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertractorman Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Do you want to borrow one out of my bath, when I rub the elbow grease off. :$ :-( David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Always found the easy way to secure a bubble was with a sky hook, liberaly coated with elbow grease of course. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 flicka - 2007-01-13 9:45 AM peter - 2007-01-12 8:44 PM and have installed a bubble tester in the gas supply line and can see in an instant if there are any leaks. Peter This sounds like a good idea to me, could you give some details, please. What are they called, Where to get them ? Regards Flicka You can get one from here. Used a lot on boats as a leak is usually catastrophic with nowhere for gas to drop out of habitation. http://www.chandleryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Gas_Leak_Detection.html Ignore the silly posts above. This is a serious thread. :D (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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