Air filter

[Pete-B]

 

Evening all, Is it an easy job to remove and replace the air filter on a 2015 Ducato 2.3 bearing in mind I'm no mechanic.

 

Thanks for any help and or instructions.

[Steve928]

It's easy enough as long as the 4 screws that retain the top cover come undone OK. They (particularly the front 2) have a tendency to corrode making it hard to get a good contact with the screwdriver. In the past I've had to saw new slots in them with a bit of hacksaw blade. At only 2 years old though I'd hope that yours would be in good nick still.

 

Remove the 4 screws, lift of the top cover, pull out the old element, clean up the filter canister, in with the new one and top back on.

[witzend]

Does it really need doing after just 2 years. Simple job remember which way old one came out Hoover debris out from bottom when refitting top be sure it goes down even When I first did mine I replaced original screws with stainless ones as original where rusted badly (as already mentioned)

[Derek Uzzell]

witzend

 

Can you recall the specification of the replacement stainless-steel screws you used, please?

 

This Fiatforum thread refers to corrosion of the standard air-cleaner housing fastening screws

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/357024-x250-air-filter-housing-fix.html

 

and suggests that hex-head self-drilling screws be used instead. I note that these are available in stainless-steel

 

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/A2_TappingScrew_SDHexFlg_No.8.html

 

which should prevent any future corrosion problems and facilitate air-filter replacement.

 

Fiat’s scheduled servicing plan for a 2015 Ducato advises that the air-cleaner cartridge should be replaced at 24 months or 30,000 miles, but the Fiat Professional agent who carried out the initial ‘low milieage’ service on my 2015 Ducato at 24 months chose not to replace the cartridge, saying that replacement could be delayed to 36 months. I may well change the cartridge myself (possibly for a K&N one) and replace the original fixing screws as a precautionary measure.

[witzend]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-29 9:22 AM witzend

Can you recall the specification of the replacement stainless-steel screws you used, please?

.

 

Sorry I can't just picked 4 out of a mixed box used one of the old ones for a pattern. I never knew that there was a time set for air filter change but did think service was at 30,000 which is high mileage for a motor home 2 yrs old

[Steve928]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-29 9:22 AM

 

witzend

 

Can you recall the specification of the replacement stainless-steel screws you used, please?

 

I neglected to mention that I'd also changed the screws to SS.

The spec. that I used was No.8 x 1.25" (4.2mm x 32mm) flanged self-tappers in A2 stainless.

[Pete-B]

 

Thanks for all the information, the reason I asked about getting to the filter, and I suppose I should have said is that I recently had mice problems and the garage found two dead in the air filter. They told me it's the first place they check because it's usually the place they head for. They apparently eat at the filter then find they can't get back out so perish in there.

 

I've now put in place traps, poison and even a couple rodent sirens so I'm throwing the big guns at them, but I thought it would be a good idea to check in the filter occasionally.

 

Caught two in the traps during the last week.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Thanks for the feed-back on the fasteners.

 

witzend - 2017-11-29 9:54 AM

 

...I never knew that there was a time set for air filter change but did think service was at 30,000 which is high mileage for a motor home 2 yrs old

 

According to my Ducato Owner Handbook the advised interval for an air-cleaner cartridge change is 24 months or 30K miles, whichever comes first.

 

My Rapido motorhome will be 3-years old in April 2018, but has yet to exceed 10K miles and won’t be used until next March.

 

Although it might be thought unnecessary for a filter to be changed at such a low mileage, in the following thread

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/2015-130MJ-Euro-V-Ducato-Oil-Usage/46995/

 

Nigel (veletron) commented

 

"Just changed the air filter after 16K miles/ about 23 months - utterly filthy. Hate to think what state it would be in after the max 30K miles service interval.”

 

As I haven’t looked yet I don’t know what the condition of my Rapido’s fiter is, nor whether removal of the fasteners will present any difficulty.

[colin]

As I've posted many times, mice I the air filter is a common problem. In my case one of the mice got past the filter and at random was being sucked up to hit the air mass sensor mesh causing the van to go into limp home mode.

It is so common and being going on so long it must rate as a design fault that Fiat can't be arsed to sort. I have fitted a mesh guard to inlet on cross member.

[Derek Uzzell]

If you are suggesting that Fiat vehicles are uniquely (or particularly) vulnerable to mice getting into the air-cleaner unit, that’s clearly not the case

 

https://tinyurl.com/ycb4hro8

 

Some 55 years ago a pal of mine bought an MG MGA sports car and, although its heater-fan operated and the water hoses connected to the heater got hot, no heat entered the car. The previous owner had kept the vehicle in a barn on a farm and the ‘box’ that enclosed the heater matrix was stuffed with debris where mice had nested.

 

A few years back my elderly neighbour told me that the overflow from the water tank in his house’s roof was dripping. As in my own house the tank was plastic with a tightly-fitted lid, except the lid on my neighbour’s tank had not been properly clipped in place. When I removed the lid to access the tank’s ball-valve, the gelatinous bodies of half a dozen dead mice were lying in the bottom of the tank. The roof-tank supplies the house’s hot water system and the cold water taps in the upstairs bathrooms. I fished out the dead mice and my neighbour (unconcerned that he had been cleaning his teeth with the roof-tank’s water) said “Don’t tell my step-daughter about this when she visits, as she hates mice!"

[colin]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-30 7:21 AM

 

If you are suggesting that Fiat vehicles are uniquely (or particularly) vulnerable to mice getting into the air-cleaner unit, that’s clearly not the case

 

 

No I'm not saying the Ducato is unique in that respect, what I am saying is that is very susceptible to mice in the filter due to position of intake and made the more so than maybe many other vehicles because motorhomes tend to spend longer periods out of use in winter. Fiat actively advertise the Ducato as being designed as a base for MH's, but as the garage in post across have said, it is a common problem in these vans, even my local small garage (which mainly works on cars) have found this problem on 3 vans now.

[Alanb]

colin - 2017-11-29 6:22 PM

 

As I've posted many times, mice I the air filter is a common problem. In my case one of the mice got past the filter and at random was being sucked up to hit the air mass sensor mesh causing the van to go into limp home mode.

It is so common and being going on so long it must rate as a design fault that Fiat can't be arsed to sort. I have fitted a mesh guard to inlet on cross member.

 

 

I am slightly puzzled here. I followed Colin's previous posts on this matter, and checked the air filter on my 2.8 JTD, which has been vacuumed clean in all pleats several times, and is now due for replacement.

Bothe the original filter and the replacement have expanded metal mesh grills either on the inner or outer surfaces. I would have thought that this mesh,particulatly the external one was an effective mouse barrier.

 

Do the filters on later engines lack this mesh?

 

Alan

[colin]

No steel mesh on later filters.

p.s. photos on this thread. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/One-for-Nick-Eddie-and-all-Filters-vs-Mice/31373/

[witzend]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-11-29 2:25 PM

My Rapido motorhome will be 3-years old in April 2018, but has yet to exceed 10K miles and won’t be used until next March. .

 

That's less than my yearly mileage I give mine a full service every year and have cleaned air filter each time changing it at 3 years when it started to look a bit tired it'll be due again next year

[Pete-B]

 

Evening, Just a quick update, first of all thanks for all the information and advice. I managed to get the four screws out on the filter top this morning and all looks clean inside, no signs of the little perishers. Mind you I've now got four traps under the bonnet primed with peanut butter and one of those vermin siren thingies and a poison box under the van so with any luck I may have seen the last of them this winter (fingers crossed), but I will stay observant.

 

Until I can replace the screws with SS Hex Head I smeared the threads of the old ones with copper grease so hopefully they should come out easy next time.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[Derek Uzzell]

Although Steve928 says above that he used No.8 x 1.25" (4.2mm x 32mm) flanged self-tappers in A2 stainless, I believe the diameter of the threaded part of the original screws is larger than 4.2mm.

 

I obtained some of these

 

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Self-Drilling-Screws/Self-Drilling-Screw-Hex-Flange-No.8x32-A2-Stainless.html

 

They do ‘hold’ OK, but I think these (with a thread diameter of 4.8mm) might be closer to the originals

 

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Self-Drilling-Screws/Self-Drilling-Screw-Hex-Flange-No.10x32-A2-Stainless.html

 

Difficulty removing the air-cleaner top’s fxing screws is discussed on a German website dedicated to Ducato hints and tips and the stainless-steel replacements that are recommended are these

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-Pieces-TRESPO-screws-9086-4-8x38-Flathead-Wood-Stainless-steel-VA2/401445409080?epid=2235404911&hash=item5d7802d138:g:wagAAOSw-0xYh1dE

 

(Note the delivery charge.)

 

The advantage of sticking to the design of the original screws is that, as the upper part of the screw is unthreaded, there will be no potential for the screws to ‘bind’ in the holes in the air-cleaner’s top through which they pass. If screws with full-length threading are employed, running an appropriately sized drill-bit (I used a 4.5mm bit) through the holes will obviate this risk.

[Pete-B]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-12-05 8:18 AM

 

Although Steve928 says above that he used No.8 x 1.25" (4.2mm x 32mm) flanged self-tappers in A2 stainless, I believe the diameter of the threaded part of the original screws is larger than 4.2mm.

 

I obtained some of these

 

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Self-Drilling-Screws/Self-Drilling-Screw-Hex-Flange-No.8x32-A2-Stainless.html

 

They do ‘hold’ OK, but I think these (with a thread diameter of 4.8mm) might be closer to the originals

 

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Self-Drilling-Screws/Self-Drilling-Screw-Hex-Flange-No.10x32-A2-Stainless.html

 

Difficulty removing the air-cleaner top’s fxing screws is discussed on a German website dedicated to Ducato hints and tips and the stainless-steel replacements that are recommended are these

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-Pieces-TRESPO-screws-9086-4-8x38-Flathead-Wood-Stainless-steel-VA2/401445409080?epid=2235404911&hash=item5d7802d138:g:wagAAOSw-0xYh1dE

 

(Note the delivery charge.)

 

The advantage of sticking to the design of the original screws is that, as the upper part of the screw is unthreaded, there will be no potential for the screws to ‘bind’ in the holes in the air-cleaner’s top through which they pass. If screws with full-length threading are employed, running an appropriately sized drill-bit (I used a 4.5mm bit) through the holes will obviate this risk.

 

Thanks for that Derek, I will look into it.

[Pete-B]

 

Just in case anyone is interested, Spalding Fasteners do the Hex Head self drilling screws in SS and you can find them on E Bay.

 

They do a pack of 5 of (8 X 4.2 X 32mm) for £1.96 with free P&P.

" " " " " " " (10 X 4.8 X 32mm) for strangely less @ £1.88 with free P&P.

 

I ordered mine on Monday and got them this morning pretty good service.

 

Hope this helps.

[Derek Uzzell]

Pete

 

I assume you got your fasteners via the ebay advert

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A2-Stainless-Steel-Hex-Flange-Head-Self-Drilling-Screws-DIN7504K-No6-No14-/372086715418?var=&hash=item953d2e905b

 

Spalding Fasteners’ own website indicates that the price of an individual Size 10 fastener is 13p, while a Size 8 fastener costs 15p. The minimum pack size is 5 fasteners, but there’s also a minimum ‘cart price’ of £1 and postage would be charged as well.

 

Ordering via the ebay advert (with postage included) seems simplest if just a few fasteners are required, and I don’t think these fasteners will be found cheaper elsewhere.

[Pete-B]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-12-06 2:08 PM

 

Pete

 

I assume you got your fasteners via the ebay advert

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A2-Stainless-Steel-Hex-Flange-Head-Self-Drilling-Screws-DIN7504K-No6-No14-/372086715418?var=&hash=item953d2e905b

 

Spalding Fasteners’ own website indicates that the price of an individual Size 10 fastener is 13p, while a Size 8 fastener costs 15p. The minimum pack size is 5 fasteners, but there’s also a minimum ‘cart price’ of £1 and postage would be charged as well.

 

Ordering via the ebay advert (with postage included) seems simplest if just a few fasteners are required, and I don’t think these fasteners will be found cheaper elsewhere.

 

Yep, got them through their E Bay shop, nice company to deal with. I did email them with my thanks, I feel when you do get good service it does good to complement it. They did thank me and said they'd be happy to refund me for the first lot if I sent them back, but they'll always come in useful at sometime.