WorldWanderer Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Hi everyone, I'd love your recommendations for motorhome friendly, hopefully snow free routes between Lake Como (where we are now) and Calais (where we need to be by 20th Dec). We've been merrily travelling around Europe since June, and whilst we've had quite a few, ahem.. learning experiences, as this is our first ever motorhome, we thought we'd got it all sussed. We reached our most southerly point in Italy last week and sadly decided that it's time to turn back to make it to the UK and our families for Christmas. Our usual planning style is quite relaxed to say the least, we research each country (mostly just after arriving in said country), pop them onto google's My Maps and connect the dots. We've got a lovely batch of dots to connect on the way home, as I said we’re at Lake Como so we were going to nip across the Alps to Switzerland, up through the edge of Austria, join the Romantic Road at Fussen in Germany, heading through the Black Forest for some cake and then up through the East of France leaving the dash to Calais for the final moments. That all seemed fine until we started researching some of the mountain passes into Switzerland and realised many of them are closed for winter by now and there might be snow. Sounds kinda obvious now I write it but we hadn’t accounted for snowy/icy conditions dictating our route so now we’re a bit stuck as to wether we should just go for it assuming the big roads will be ok to drive or whether to chose a route based on it being a sensible non-snowy option (this is not sounding so appealing to me, but then I’m not the driver!) Do you have any recommendations for parts or all of the route? We like wildlife, pretty towns, avoiding tolls if possible, hot springs, a few Christmas markets and I’d like to see some nice gardens as the couple I’ve wanted to see in Italy have been closed. We look forward to your wise words!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Call the family ... say sorry we're snowed in ... see you at Easter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildi Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Rothenburg ob der Tauber (Germany) will be a great place for the Christmas market, there are a couple more walled towns in the area worth a visit https://www.rothenburg.de/welcome/art-culture/highlights/christmas-market/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 You'll have to watch local forecasts as you go. You are presently tucked in below Switzerland, making the most direct route to Calais via Basel, then north into France via Colmar, Selestat, St Die, Nancy, and Reims to Calais. Your potential problem is that the first leg of this route runs quite high, and will take you through the expensive St Gottard road tunnel. It is also mainly toll motorway, but it is fairly direct. The major routes are generally kept clear of snow, so should remain passable even if there is an early dump. However, you'll need a vignette of some sort (depending on the weight of your van) to get through Switzerland, and it would be wise to check Swiss laws on use of winter tyres and carrying chains before setting off. Once into France you'll have to cross the Vosges when you leave the Rhine valley, and this involves the Maurice Lemaitre tunnel between Ste Marie-les-Mines and Frapelle, which has been closed for some time and may, or may not, now have opened to traffic again. Check its usability as I suspect the alternative high level routes may be closed, or restricted, at this time. Your chosen route up through Germany may get you into trouble as, under German law, winter tyres are, I think, already required, or very soon will be. That really leaves you the western route via Turin and Chambery to Lyon, and then north via Dijon and Troyes to Reims. Many of the minor passes on these routes will, as you have already discovered, be either closed, or restricted, by now, and most will have requirements for chains or winter tyres if still open. The Rhone valley is probably least likely to be restricted, but to the east you run into the Vercours, which are high, and to the west the Massif, which is also high, and prone to difficult conditions as it is the first high land the weather hits as it sweeps in from the Atlantic. You really need to stick to the valley route to avoid problems. As I'm sure you know weather at altitude is fickle, so you may pass on any of these routes and see no snow or ice, or see little else! What you can't get around are the laws on use of winter tyres between fixed dates, and the need to carry (and fit as required) chains on certain routes. If it were me, I think I'd go west unless I had winter tyres and was carrying chains. What I can say from experience, is that 3.5 tonnes of motorhome, on summer tyres, on hard packed snow, makes for interesting, and very slow, travel! :-) Good luck, whichever route you take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldWanderer Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Thank you for your in depth reply Brian, that gives us lots of options to think about. The first leg of the route as you've mentioned through the St Gottard tunnel (or over the pass if it's open) is the one we're immediately worried about as it's tomorrows travel and will set us on a path for the rest of the trip. We've checked and we have Michelin Agilis Camping M+S tyres which we've seen are acceptable winter tyres in Germany, and we've just got ourselves some snow chains with the hope of never having to fit them! Do you know of a good forecast service to check if there's snow on the roads? We've never travelled on snowy or icy roads before, and thinking of some of the mountain passes we've been on where it takes all your concentration to squeeze along the road without falling off the edge or scraping on the mountain overhang, adding a slippery surface into the mix seems a bit like a death wish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldWanderer Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Mildi, Wow, that does look magical :-) And they have a route suggestion on their website that includes the Romantic Road which I wanted to see... Route: Füssen, Steingaden, Schongau, Landsberg am Lech, Augsburg, Donauwörth, Nördlingen, Feuchtwangen, Schillingsfürst, Rothenburg o.d.T. Will need to check on the conditions as I don't think sliding about in a 3.5 tonne motorhome will make for a romantic atmosphere!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 While Brians suggestions seem ok he is very pessimistic with his snow levels in early December. Nothing in the Vosge to worry about or the Black Forrest. Even St Gottard, tunnel not pass, will be fine, very much doubt you will need chains. Romantic road again nothing high enough to bother you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 With others ably suggesting names and vehicle limitations, my first thought on a suitable route was aim for the Atlantic coast then head north. All weather is unpredictable and you should not assume anything. You have to decide which is most important ... meeting your family or admiring the winter scenery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldWanderer Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 We checked the weather on the routes and have decided to head to Füssen to start the Romantic Road. We’re heading up the East side of Switzerland now and whilst we’ve seen lots of snow (as picture attached) the roads have been clear of snow and ice thankfully. Thank you for all of your suggestions, and we welcome any more for the rest of the route :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 WorldWanderer - 2017-12-03 8:22 PM Thank you for your in depth reply Brian, that gives us lots of options to think about. The first leg of the route as you've mentioned through the St Gottard tunnel (or over the pass if it's open) is the one we're immediately worried about as it's tomorrows travel and will set us on a path for the rest of the trip. We've checked and we have Michelin Agilis Camping M+S tyres which we've seen are acceptable winter tyres in Germany, and we've just got ourselves some snow chains with the hope of never having to fit them! Do you know of a good forecast service to check if there's snow on the roads? We've never travelled on snowy or icy roads before, and thinking of some of the mountain passes we've been on where it takes all your concentration to squeeze along the road without falling off the edge or scraping on the mountain overhang, adding a slippery surface into the mix seems a bit like a death wish! OK. So route via Fussen? Head for Lecco, then turn left (north) up the side of Como (SS36) towards Piantedo and Chiavenna, then right onto SS37 and the Swiss border at Castasgena (border post - Switzerlans in in Schengen but not EU). From Castasgena take Swiss road 3 to Silvaplana, right to Swiss 27 to Celerina, and keep on along 27 to Zernez and the Austrian border near Martinez (where there seems to be no border post) and on to Austrian B184 via Pfunds, Prutz, and Landeck. When approaching Fleiss, don't take the Reschenstrasse, which is part of the Austrian toll motorway network, but keep right onto the L76 down the Inn valley to Landeck, and then right onto B171 for Zams (avoiding the A12, which is toll), Imst, and B189 Nassereith, B179 (Fernpass) to Lahn, Reutte, and the Grenztunnel to Fussen in Germany. The only advice I can give for weather is ask at the campsite if they have a good forecast, and then look for Swiss and Austrian local forecasts. Most of the route is along valleys, and deep snow should not be a problem, but it's early winter, it's the Alps, it's at some altitude, and winter weather in mountains can be fickle. We got hit by about two feet of snow at Fussen in April one year, and the last time we came back along this route in October there was a snowy drizzle falling that was just beginning to show one the road. Not really slippery, but the surface was being made greasy. Should be a quite spectacular drive if clear. Enjoy! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldWanderer Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 We checked the weather on the routes and have decided to head to Füssen to start the Romantic Road. We’re heading up the East side of Switzerland now and whilst we’ve seen lots of snow (as picture attached) the roads have been clear of snow and ice thankfully. Thank you for all of your suggestions, and we welcome any more for the rest of the route :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-12-03 7:34 PM Your chosen route up through Germany may get you into trouble as, under German law, winter tyres are, I think, already required, or very soon will be. . I think it's from the 1st Nov but at the moment they don't need to be winter tyre just M&S rating. You can still drive on summer tyre but if you cause a traffic hold up its a €60 fine or an accident €80 fine. If you are heading for Fussen why not go through Austria via the Brenner then the Fern passes good road don't go very high and kept clear and free, there is a Autobhan through the fern pass as well but coming from the south your are unlikely to accidentally end up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 rupert123 - 2017-12-03 10:17 PM While Brians suggestions seem ok he is very pessimistic with his snow levels in early December. Nothing in the Vosge to worry about or the Black Forrest. Even St Gottard, tunnel not pass, will be fine, very much doubt you will need chains. Romantic road again nothing high enough to bother you. This is from the Var, today, in Provence-Alpes-Cote'D'Azur, so in the southern Alps. It's early winter, Henry, in the Alps. Stuff happens! :-) http://tinyurl.com/y9p7wewg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yes but not talking about the southern alps and nothing high enough to worry about. Look at the snow levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Well, did you see World Wanderer's picture posted today, here: http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/get-attachment.asp?attachmentid=13299 Very pretty, but it's down to road level now so, given a bit more snow, or a bit more altitude? The forecast on the French site for the Var is for more. Como to Fussen is only a couple of hundred miles so, as long as they didn't get delayed at the Italian/Swiss border, they should be out of the mountains by now. BTW, do you take your van when you go skiing, Henry? Looks as though you might be in for a good year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldWanderer Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 We’ve arrived safe and sound despite our first snowfall driving the motorhome, we don’t get snow like that in Dorset! Whilst we saw lots of snow, the route was cleared apart from our final leg up through the south of Germany on the 12 to Kempten where we turned off, which didn’t seem to be recently gritted and was pretty scary at times. Wouldn’t recommend that stretch for anyone travelling in a motorhome during snow. We did pass a truck on our side which had skidded from the other side of the road onto the metal railings which was pretty sobering. Thanks again for everyone’s suggestions, when you’re newbies like us all ‘firsts’ seem scary, but now we’ve got our first snowfall under our belt! Just got to survive the night now and learn how to dig ourselves out in the morning!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 What a difference a day makes! :-D It wasn't snowing when we stopped, this was just one night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 No, never take it Brian, campers and snow with all the gear far to much trouble. We rent a chalet and invite friends out, what they pay usually pays our costs and they get cheap accommodation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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