Nick Miller Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I am lucky to be able to give my motorhome a run during the winter months.It gets at least a trip to Tesco (40 mile return) once a week. So i return home with what might be a reasonably full vehicle battery. I plug it in to my home electrics and can see via a polarity checker that electricity is entering the van.Also the refrigerator works.I now leave it plugged in all the time. The leisure battery was checked recently and found to be in good order. I have a van Bitz battery mate and this has the green light illuminated for a few days and then it turns to red and i know i have a problem. The engine battery is a brand new Varta sealed unit.Connected to this are the radio which doesn't have a twenty minute shut off so its always on (the on/off button is constantly illuminated), a reversing camera ( i remove the screen but the camera leds still glow in the dark) & a van Aaken smart Box.The original alarm was removed (at my request ) by the supplier.There is now no electrical security system.I prefer a Clutch Claw. So what might be causing the engine battery to fail.Even with the battery mate in place.When touring there are no problems (never say never).Presumably because the alternator is keeping the engine battery topped up. So any ideas what might be the cause of my problems?Off to see an Auto electrician on Tesday but any pointers would help. Failing this i will have to travel 250 miles to appear on Dave Newell's Web Cam. Thanks N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I would be tempted to disconnect the negative terminal from the engine battery, connect an ammeter (milliameter) between the neg post and the removed and see just how many milliamperes are being taken by whatever. Then with the meter in place one by one remove fuses to find which one is responsible for the current. What one does next depends on what you find at this stage. Dave is about the same distance to me. Where are you? Good luck Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Further to Clive's comments, I read somewhere recently there is a power down procedure before disconnecting the vehicle battery if you have a fairly modern engine. Its something to do with a switching off sequence from ignition switch onwards, even leaving your driver window open so the cab lights don't come on to re-awaken the ECU when switching off the ignition. It all sounded a bit complicated just to change the vehicle battery. I have had a spin around the internet but have not located the artical yet, when I find the article I will post it. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 NickAm I correct in thinking the mains charger does not charge your starter battery? If it does not, any items, such as even the battery mate, will cause some discharge. It may only be small, but it will be continuous and, over several days, can run a battery flat. The 20 mins switch off on the radio turns off the radio when it is playing, it does not isolate the radio. It seems odd the radio "on" button stays illuminated with lights and ignition "off", I have not seen this before, but it may be the type of raido you have. However, I'd suspect the radio since there is a drain to maintain the station preset memory and, in a lot of radios, the anti-theft circuit that you have to re-set if you disconnect the battery.Do as Clive suggests and attach a meter to see what is being drawn, then pull the fuses one by one to see what is drawing it. Won't solve the problem, but at least you'll know what is causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 If your radio is coded, make sure you know before you disconnect the battery. How do you know the Battery Mate has not gone duff? check it's output on a Multimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The other thing that you might like to try i, if your van is plugged into the electricity supply most of the time, is a Trickle Charger. We have just acquired one for a friend of ours who has a Land Rover Discovery and only uses it to tow his caravan which isn't very often and the rest of the time its in the garage. Even if he doesn't lock, it the cars system puts the alarm on after a few minutes and its discharging the battery. This was found because of the purchase of a new battery thinking that the old one was faulty when in fact it was OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 We had a Disco, after being left to sulk while we holiday'd with the motorhome for 4 weeks it was touch and go if the Disco would start on our return. In the end I always put it on charge on our return for a few hours before trying. Most cars and motorhomes are the same unless you do something positive to overcome the problem. For us its an 80 watt solar panel on the roof and a bridging fuse linking the two batteries when the vans parked up. The bridging fuse system works just as well enabling the built in regulated charger in the van to keep both lesiure and starter batteries topped up during lay up. I may have said this B4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Halfords have some chargers that can be permently left connected to a battery and supply a top up charge when needed. Cost is about £18 comes with crocdile clips and a cable that can be permently connected to a battery and quick fix end . Rated at 0.75 amps ( I don't know if this a powerful enough to charge and maintain charge) ANY COMMENTS WELCOME ;-) I have a Rapido which has a rather French (Bless them) approach to electrics. No RCB but circuit breakers instead. BUT the charging system does ( in theory) allow me to charge the leisure battery then when it is cahrgesd it will switch to charge the Starter Battery. It is rather similar to the VanBitz system in reverse. Both batteries are getting a little old (about 3 years old) and it would seem that the leisure battery does not get to a voltage where the system will switch over to charge the Van battery to any great degree. Maybe this is what is happening to your battery ? The voltages are set low to prevent gassing of the batterys, so I guess they sit there and start to sulphate up from day one. I read some where that most Lead acid batterys need a voltage of 14.5 volts to kick start the charging cycle, this can drop to 13.5 volts on trickle charge to maintain the battery. It you carry out an Internet search on "Advice charge lead battery" there is some quite mind boggling stuff to wade through. Does not seem as easy as connect the crodile clips and forget ! Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Miller Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Thanks for all your ideas.I will go into the garage clothed with a reasonable cover of knowledge. I will isolate the radio.Standard Peugeot issue i think but perhaps rewired by a willing amateur.Code to hand. I am suspiscious of the 'battery mate''s performance but as that is under the seat next to the leisure battery it will have to be left to a specialist. Removal of the driver's seat comes under my'' age defeated'' heading. Will report back when the problem has been resolved. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Nick, Have you checked the electrolyte level in the batteries? If you simply plug in to the van's built-in charger, you will have problems if left plugged in long term, since the charger does not switch itself off when the battery is full but continues to apply a small charge that will eventually gas the battery dry. I know - I learned this the hard way with my first motorhome. The only way to leave it on permanent charge is to buy a proper battery charger from an auto electrical dealer - one that monitors the charge in the battery and switches itself on and off as necessary. You can plug this - using its crocodile connectors - onto the leisure battery and a battery mate should then also maintain the van battery. But a much simpler way (and cheaper) is to use the method Clive has described: connect an 8 amp wire between the positive terminals of leisure and van batteries, with a 5 amp fuse in the line. ======= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Our Auto Sleeper has a radio isolation switch which bypasses the 20 min shut off. If it is left in the on position the radio on/off switch glows just as you say and the vehicle battery is flat in 8 days. If the switch is left in the off position the radio on/off switch does not glow and the vehicle battery is fine. It seems incredible but there clearly is a reasonable current drain when the radio is in this sleep mode (on/off switch glowing). I guess you need an additional switch somewhere to completely turn the radio off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Nick, I'm a bit concerned about your camera staying powered "i remove the screen but the camera leds still glow in the dark)" when everything is switched off (or should be). I would normally take a camera's power supply from an ignition controlled feed. My suspicicon is that there are several things causing your discharge which is higher than the small current being fed over by the battery master. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Further to my previous entry re the Halfords Maintnence charger. I have purchased one and it seems to do what it says on the Tin ( or plastic packaging ) Charges up @ 14.5 volts initially and then sits at about 13.2 volts whilst on the maintenace charge. I have not taken any amperage readings yet. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Well Nick, what did the auto electrician say? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Miller Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Dave............. (or is that George, perhaps Terry...) I think you know that you are right. But if the Battery Mate has not been able to fulfil its purpose it was not money well spent.This thought however pre judges the situation. Radio now disconected and i will get young Mathew of ATM Bedford to eventually wire it to the leisure battery in accordance with your instructions.Sorry i am so far South that i can not call into you for the work.But you do your business little harm by your helpful attitude. Now rebooked Friday at 11am for the camera to be wired into the ignition and fuses checked a la (le) Clive. I will return. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Thanks for the update Nick. Its worth bearing in mind that the battery master is only designed to trickle a small current over to the engine battery and if the drain is higher than the current the battery master can handle then your battery goes flat. This does not mean that the battery master is faulty or not fulfilling its purpose but it does mean that you have an exceptional drain on the engine battery. Please keep us up to date. D (or is it G or even T? Or even G&T?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Miller Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Issue not really resolved to day.Nice workshop.I espied a Porsche,BMW and Jaguar.So must know car electrics inside out. Battery losing @.25 amp. Not radio or camera. Manager seemed a little reluctant to proceed further without ''havin'it in for a few hours.Mmmm Motorhome!!Might take ages to find the problem.'' This accompanied by storm force sucking in and blowing out of air through the teeth. So its Northwards at the start of February.Dave Newell or one of his aliases will check out the problem. *******Dave forgot to mention on phone....can we wire radio into leisure battery and if time a habitation check.So will need Thursday Night & Friday Night at Severn Gorge.********* Thanks to all who offered help & advice. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hi Nick, no problem with the Hab inspection and rewiring the radio, all in a days work. Campsite's booked for the two nights. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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