steveandlisa Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Hi folks, We have been motorhomeing for about five years now and have learnt a lot from experience, past mistakes and good advice given ;-) My question is should we use gas or electric to heat the hot water boiler system (?) Now, we have always used electric when on hook-up for the boiler and fridge, well we paid for it in the site fee`s so why not. But I have now read somewhere that you should use gas for the running of heaters, heating elements and fridges and that the electrical provisions for these appliances are mainly for back-up should gas not be available 8-) All views and advice appreciated thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 One point I would make most van heating systems the gas side is more powerful then the electric, the combi 6000 has 6 kW heat on gas 2 kW mains, my Alde heating is similar. The reason is although a lot of uk sites provide 16 amp hook up not all do and many continental site are as low as 3 amps. Depending on available supply I would prioritise as battery charger first, then fridge, hot water, heating,electric hot plate, Most hot plates are around 800 watt, heating on many systems can be adjusted from 1 kW upwards. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Using electricity for hot water is OK on a "might as well, you're paying for it" basis but it has limited power, so if two of you want to shower, it makes sense to switch the gas on as well, to provide the power you need for the time you need it. As a Truma engineer explained to me at a Show, our 12 year old truma system (I forget the model number) is designed primarily as a blown air heater so if you are using it to make hot water when the heating is not needed, you have to play a bit clever. By all means leave the electric water heater on overnight but half an hour before you want two shower switch to duel fuel AND five minutes before the first shower switch to 60 degrees water temperature, even though you only want 40 deg water. This is to ensure the Truma burners/heater element are engaged and drawing power, so that as water is drawn off, the Truma will already be actively heating the water. After you've showered, you switch the truma back to 40 degreees and electricity only. For fridges I think it's different because our frdige has always coped on electricity alone, even in hot climates, so if we're on EHU we run the fridge on electricity only, all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 steveandlisa - 2018-01-25 10:28 PM ...But I have now read somewhere that you should use gas for the running of heaters, heating elements and fridges and that the electrical provisions for these appliances are mainly for back-up should gas not be available 8-) All views and advice appreciated thanks. As a generalistion, if a motorhome’s heating appliance has the capability to heat water via 230V as well as via gas, the 230V capability will be the less powerful and, consequently, will heat the water more slowly. For example the gas-burner of a current Truma “Ultrastore Rapid GE” gas/230V water-boiler has an ouput of 1500W, whereas the maximum output of its 230V heating element is 1300W. The gas-burner of a current Truma “Combi (E)” gas/230V combination air/water appliance has an output of 2000W in ‘water heating mode’, whereas the maximum output of its 230V heating elements is 1800W. Going back in time to Truma’s C3402/C4000/C6002 gas/230V combination air/water heaters, their gas-burner output in water-heating mode was 2000W, but their 230V ‘heating collar’ was just 450W. If you still own a 2007 Swift Bolero, I believe it will have a Truma C6002EH gas/230V combination air/water heater with a gas-burner output of 2000W in ‘water heating mode’ and with 230V heating elements that produce 900W or 1800W. So heating water via gas will be quicker than via 230V. As StuartO has suggested, to get the best out of Truma 230V/gas combination air/water heaters when obtaining hot water for showering requires the user to appreciate how these heaters function and theitr limitations. But if a suitable 230V supply is available free of charge, it would be perverse not to make use of that supply to run a fridge and/or a heater with a 230V water-heating capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Alde has three electric elements the max is 3000 watts, not 2000 watts A dometic fridge element on 230 volts takes 24 hours to reach temperature. They never can compete whit propane gas. Have two botlle gas lockers refill, or a `12o ltr gas tank somewhere a side the chassis whit a comfortable re fill neck. The alde waterpump make some noice but is adjustable in speed, but can make you wake up at night. what abou the truma? The eberspacher and truna diesels the same, but i like their noise saying they are in charge like on a cruise ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Not all Alde heaters have a 3000 watt capability, mine is 1000 or 2000 (2012 Elddis Aspire) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcobird Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 So it is assumed the heater is more powerful on gas, does this mean it is more expensive to run on gas. Is it cheaper to run the heater on gas, electric or a mixture of both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 We almost exclusively use sites with electric hookup so we use that to fuel the water heater as we have paid for the electricity. Never experienced any problem with the electrical supply being insufficient to fuel the water heater. Depending on the size of the electrical supply It may not be possible to use this to fire up the water heater and the space heater at the same time so we make sure we only have one of them running at a time - never been a problem. Just out of interest we spent £35 on gas over a period of 3 years for 193 nights which is hardly worth bothering about as an expense. This is for the cooker only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Barcobird - 2018-02-26 5:20 PM So it is assumed the heater is more powerful on gas, does this mean it is more expensive to run on gas. Is it cheaper to run the heater on gas, electric or a mixture of both? I was told (fairly recently) that campsites in Spain often metered 230V usage and, consequently, it could be cheaper to use gas for motorhome heating instead. It’s not possible to resolve an equation with more than one variable and the relative ‘expense’ of heating via electricity or gas (or both) will depend on the variable price of the electricity and the variable price of the gas. The guy who told me that the gas option was cheaper in Spain had an Auto-Sleepers motorhome with an LPG tank, so (presumably) he’d be paying less for autogas than if he were using bottled-gas. And when a 230V supply is free, cheap or expensive, the comparative financial advantages of using electricity or gas for heating shift around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 "I was told (fairly recently) that campsites in Spain often metered 230V usage and, consequently, it could be cheaper to use gas for motorhome heating instead. " We found that many German & Austrian sites were charging either a daily rate of about €3 for a defined amount of electricity (5 kWH IIRC) , or metering it at around €0.60 per kWH last year. Usually used gas only on the Ultrastore water heater on sites / stellplaetze that charged like that, as Autogas is cheap (only had one fill-up of an 11kg bottle for 54 nights usage last year. Diesel space heating though !). Usually used it electric only on UK sites & continental sites that didn't itemise the electric usage seperately. I have not found much difference in capability on the Ultastore between gas only or electric only, with both modes capable of supplying two showers back-to-back. Gas + electric together does give a noticable reduction in the time it takes to heat a tank full from cold, as you would expect. Nigel B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 We mainly use sites, with EHU, so use that for fridge/ hot water . Cooking I use the elec plate mostly and gas if I need more than one hob, at the same time. I use electric kettle, but make sure not to have the water heater on and kettle(1KW) at the same time , just to be sure. The water heats very quickly on our van via elec.Don't use the shower as we use camp ones! We use 1/2 tank of gas , at most in a year, as we mainly are in the sun, so heating if required is also electric. (don't have to bother with taking the vent cover off. if we use ehu!) PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcobird Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-02-26 6:35 PM Barcobird - 2018-02-26 5:20 PM So it is assumed the heater is more powerful on gas, does this mean it is more expensive to run on gas. Is it cheaper to run the heater on gas, electric or a mixture of both? I was told (fairly recently) that campsites in Spain often metered 230V usage and, consequently, it could be cheaper to use gas for motorhome heating instead. It’s not possible to resolve an equation with more than one variable and the relative ‘expense’ of heating via electricity or gas (or both) will depend on the variable price of the electricity and the variable price of the gas. The guy who told me that the gas option was cheaper in Spain had an Auto-Sleepers motorhome with an LPG tank, so (presumably) he’d be paying less for autogas than if he were using bottled-gas. And when a 230V supply is free, cheap or expensive, the comparative financial advantages of using electricity or gas for heating shift around. What about if we take the variables out of the equation and for the purpose of this exercise assume that both gas and electric are free, what would be the most economic on usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Barcobird - 2018-02-27 9:18 AM What about if we take the variables out of the equation and for the purpose of this exercise assume that both gas and electric are free, what would be the most economic on usage? If they are both free what is the point of your question? Anyway with the electric option costing around £450 that buys a lot of gas also electric elements prone to regular failure therefore the heater is more reliable on gas. I have never bothered to have the electric option in any of my vans can't see the point, far cheaper to run on gas especially if you are using Autogas. We rarely ever use EHU can't see the point of paying up to €5/day for something I don't need, we hardly ever use sites anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcobird Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 lennyhb - 2018-02-27 9:40 AM Barcobird - 2018-02-27 9:18 AM What about if we take the variables out of the equation and for the purpose of this exercise assume that both gas and electric are free, what would be the most economic on usage? If they are both free what is the point of your question? Anyway with the electric option costing around £450 that buys a lot of gas also electric elements prone to regular failure therefore the heater is more reliable on gas. I have never bothered to have the electric option in any of my vans can't see the point, far cheaper to run on gas especially if you are using Autogas. We rarely ever use EHU can't see the point of paying up to €5/day for something I don't need, we hardly ever use sites anyway. The point of the question ?? I am hooked up to a friends electric and have no way of working out our usage and he just wants a couple of beers. Not wishing to take advantage if it’s giving the electric a hammering I will run the heater on gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 It tickles me how little gas some people use. We are currently on our way back from 8 weeks snowboarding in Switzerland and, on top of 2 weeks free electric, we have burnt our way through eight 10.5kg bottles of Vitogaz and five 11kg refills of lpg. Prices £36 and £18 respectively. At least you get a 100% refund on the CHF55 bottle deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Barcobird - 2018-02-27 10:23 AM The point of the question ?? I am hooked up to a friends electric and have no way of working out our usage and he just wants a couple of beers. Not wishing to take advantage if it’s giving the electric a hammering I will run the heater on gas. Based on the technical data for your motorhome’s heater, you should be able to make a reasonably accurate estimate of its 230V electricity usage. Once you’ve got that figure, you could ask your friend to calculate from his electricity tariff information how much you ‘owe’ him for using his 230V power supply. Otherwise, as you’ll know how long you’ll be using your friend’s power and whether your 230v usage is high or low, you should be able to make an educated guess whether the overall cost to your friend will be “just a couple of beers” or significantly more. You own a big posh motorhome - either treat your friend generously or don’t piggy-back on his 230V power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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