Cliffy Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Have just been reading the ACSI Blog https://www.eurocampings.co.uk/blog/listing/new-regulations-for-winter-tyres-germany/?aff=8879&utm_source=2018004_EC_NB_EN&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_ec_en We are traveling through Germany to Prague in Mid May and are now concerned that it could still be wintery conditions in the mountains and therefore we would have to stay put until the wintery conditions improved. Your thoughts and views welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Hi Couldn't get more vague than that. Wintery conditions, could get those in June?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Unless involved in a collision in "wintery conditions" and the police are called out, i'd say there's very little to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryrj Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 According to the link, if you have M&S tyres purchased before this year you are ok to use them until 2024. So no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Barryrj - 2018-01-26 10:17 PM According to the link, if you have M&S tyres purchased before this year you are ok to use them until 2024. So no worries. I understood from the ACSI blog that the 2024 deadline was the law concerning the difference M&S tyres and winter tyres not the parameters for the definition of winter. Copied from the blog Winter conditions German law does not refer to winter tyres, but to tyres with winter properties. This covers all-season tyres in addition to winter tyres. The use of tyres with winter properties in winter conditions is mandatory. Winter conditions are defined as: ice, slippery conditions in snow, slush and slippery conditions caused by ice or frost. No fixed period is defined, so there is the possibility of winter conditions in periods other than the traditional winter months. Trailers and caravans are not covered by this regulation as they are not driven but simply towed. The towing vehicle, and also motorhomes for example, must of course comply with the new regulations. Winter tyres in Germany from 1 January 2018 Nothing new so far as regards Germany, but the definition of a ‘tyre with winter properties’ has been modified since 1 January 2018. To meet the new requirements, a minimum tread of 4 millimetres is recommended (1.6 millimetres is mandatory but perhaps Germany will also decide, just as in Austria, to increase this to 4 millimetres), and winter or all-season tyres must have the Alpine symbol shown below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way2Go Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 If you only have the 'M + S' markings, and as long as the tyres were manufactured before 31st December 2017, it is perfectly legal to use them up to 30th September 2024. This is the official statement taken from our German ADAC web site which echos an article I read some time ago :- "What is new is that it is no longer sufficient if the tires are marked with an M + S mark. Rather, § 2 Abs 3a of the StVO now refers to the new § 36 para 4 StVZO, which is why only such tires are considered suitable for winter, with the Alpine symbol (mountain pictogram with snowflake) according to Regulation No. 117 of the Economic Commission United Nations for Europe (UNECE) - Standard conditions for the approval of tires with regard to rolling noise and wet surface and / or rolling resistance (OJ L 218, 12.8.2016, p. While the term "M + S" is not subject to uniform testing criteria, the Alpine symbol of the tire must be compared with a standardized model and withstand uniform test procedures and strict criteria. [/b] Until September 30, 2024, tires with M + S markings are considered suitable for winter if they have been manufactured before December 31, 2017 [/b]. With this very long transitional regime , the legislator wants to avoid financial hardships by allowing tires that have already been produced or purchased to be driven up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Way2Go - 2018-01-27 6:40 AM If you only have the 'M + S' markings, and as long as the tyres were manufactured before 31st December 2017, it is perfectly legal to use them up to 30th September 2024. This is the official statement taken from our German ADAC web site which echos an article I read some time ago :- "What is new is that it is no longer sufficient if the tires are marked with an M + S mark. Rather, § 2 Abs 3a of the StVO now refers to the new § 36 para 4 StVZO, which is why only such tires are considered suitable for winter, with the Alpine symbol (mountain pictogram with snowflake) according to Regulation No. 117 of the Economic Commission United Nations for Europe (UNECE) - Standard conditions for the approval of tires with regard to rolling noise and wet surface and / or rolling resistance (OJ L 218, 12.8.2016, p. While the term "M + S" is not subject to uniform testing criteria, the Alpine symbol of the tire must be compared with a standardized model and withstand uniform test procedures and strict criteria. [/b] Until September 30, 2024, tires with M + S markings are considered suitable for winter if they have been manufactured before December 31, 2017 [/b]. With this very long transitional regime , the legislator wants to avoid financial hardships by allowing tires that have already been produced or purchased to be driven up." It is not the type of tyre I am asking about, what is the period of winter. Is it fixed period or is it or the road condition at the time of driving (icy snow covered etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way2Go Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Please forgive me for trying to be helpful. To answer your snippy comment, ‘wintery conditions’ is when it snows *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Cliffy - 2018-01-27 9:35 AM It is not the type of tyre I am asking about, what is the period of winter. Is it fixed period or is it or the road condition at the time of driving (icy snow covered etc) Is that question not covered within the extract from the ACSI blog you quoted in your posting of 26 January 2018 10:34 PM above? Namely “...Winter conditions are defined as: ice, slippery conditions in snow, slush and slippery conditions caused by ice or frost. No fixed period is defined, so there is the possibility of winter conditions in periods other than the traditional winter months...” Spring in Germany officially begins on 21 March and Summer on 21 June, so mid-May would be two-thirds through Spring and well on the way to Summer. I suppose there’s the possibility that freak weather conditions MIGHT result in high mountain roads becoming icy or snowy in mid-May, but if that happened you’d just have to decide whether to stay put or detour using roads that were unaffected. The risk of wintry conditions affecting normal roads in Germany in mid-May has got to be pretty small though and it’s not something I’d be concerned about if I were in your position. (I notice that changes to European tyre requirements were discussed here in mid-2016) http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Winter-Tyre-Requirements-changing-Europe-/43346/#M504551 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Cliff, weather is weather, and "out of season weather" is always possible. Assuming you would take a logically direct route to Prague, you won't encounter mountains, so the risk of snow/ice in mid-May will be very low. Besides, I assume you'll be using quite a lot of autobahn, which will be the priority roads for clearance, so I doubt you'd get delayed for long. The Germans are well used to snow, and pretty efficient at clearing it. However, if you are travelling on "summer" tyres and you were to encounter either, what would you do irrespective of the German law? Pressing on regardless would be a high risk strategy, as a van running on either surface presents quite a challenge. If it were to happen, I think you'd be wisest to heave-to whatever tyres were fitted. Infringing the law may involve a fine, but infringing the laws of physics could well involve far worse! I'd think I'd be more concerned about delays due to roadworks, than to snow! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 This is what i read. Croatia M+S and 4 mm profile. On ice and 5 cm snow chains. Min requirement. In germany as per 1-1 -2018 : dot code before 1-1- 18 and m+s, be aware that there are also summer tyres m+s and not allowed. The 4 mm profile is still in discussion since michelin declared that there is not proof of track difference between the min 1.6 and 4 mm. Fines 60 euro driver and also the reg owner 75 euro in case he is not the driver. Since we can not predict the weather be prepared as Brian said. Since the brexit there are no eu tables shown for the uk. Source: Adac And the famous dutch ANWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I forget for germany the alpine and snow flake which include a brake test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Thanks for the helpful posts. We do not have a tight timescale so will travel only when the road reports are expected to be good, as suggested. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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