michele Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Please Friends van totally flat brand new going to Brownhills tommorrow Kept in storage .....FLAT . Will we be able to start it with our Genny 2KW PE20 ? I know our van would not start with a jump from our VW . Any help please as waiting to take the jenny but a bit far to waste time. If it won't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Michelle, It will start with a jump from your VW if: 1. You've got decent copper jump leads. 2. You leave the leads attached for about 10 minutes to get something into the van battery before trying to start it. All the genny will do is put charge into your battery. It will not output enough power to 'fire up' a starter motor. So leave the genny connected overnight and the problem should be solved. Or pop out to your local auto dealer and buy a proper battery trickle charger that senses battery voltage and switches itself off when the battery is fully charged to avoid gassing it. Cost about £25 to £30, but it seems like you need one for the future anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Mel E , Thankyou I never explained it's in the middle of a storage place Flat as a pancake . In London, should be in Newark now . The Genny info was just to see if it we could take it and we have a battery trickle charger . Going now to see if we have a result . Thank you for your quick response and helpful information. Regards Michele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Well tried off the VW no good although the VW has 680 and the Autotrail only has 650 ampage Would another camper do it. Generator running now trying to get a quick charge Big battery charger connected to the van trying to get enough charge onto the van as possible ,so that when we come to jump it again it might jump to life this time . What are we doing wrong .Anyone. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hi Michele, when you are trying to jumpstart it, you must keep the other car engine running while you are trying to start the flat one, and keep the engine revs up a bit and the van should start, if it's not turning over then I think you have another problem. Is the flat one a diesel or petrol? Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Philman, Thankyou all sorted it obviously just needed a really massive boost. It's on it's way to Newark now as we speak. Thank you for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I've been considering buying one of those free-standing batteries that you plug into the mains and carry around to jump start your vehicle if you find yourself in Michele's position.Some of them have a car cigar-lighter output, so if I'm overnighting without mains I presume that I can run the TV etc. from it without fear of discharging the leisure battery.This is a typical one http://tinyurl.com/u2l9mHas anyone any advice or suggestions for an even better one?Thanks in advance to all you techies out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolh Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 we bought one - not at all impressed! They are neither one thing or another.... When we had vehicle battery problems, despite being fully charged would not turn over the 2.5l diesel engine! only lasted about an hour and a half with the 12v tele plugged in, it is now sat in the shed unloved and unwanted! Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hi Frank, No experience of them, I was considering one myself, but to advise you they are selling them in Makros for £14.99 + vat if you do decice to go for one. After the last post I am even more undecided, at least you get a no quibble 28 day take it back with Makro. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Let's face it - for £15 or so, you're not likely to get anything that will jump start a 3.5 tonne van battery, are you? After all, what you're buying is simply another battery, and it's going to be a pretty small one at that price. My advice is: don't bother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hello everyone Frank friends of ours have had major problems with their van . To much to mention it has now come to major crux time. The van was due to go back today for repair and to put all the things that are wrong right . They went to collect it from storage on the out skirts of Essex today and dead. I have a question perhaps you people might know? Our VW would not jump our M/H when flat the battery is 680 volts what ever it's called to tecno for me . Today when arriving at the van they done as Mel E suggested . They then wondered why will the VW not do this one either and on investigation the van M/H is only 650 Amps Volts battery. Why would the VW not do it ? This is a horrible situation to be in this has also happened to me at the stables I used to jam in up against a wall hidden by all the horse boxes. The horse box managed to jump start it again though. Is it to do with size or the fact that you just need more because it is totally flat ?... I wonder ? So today they ended up using the Genny Honda (big one) plugged to it for an hour just to give it enough boost to get it going it worked . We have a giant battery charger but we were not in a position to allow it to charge because as stated it had to go back today Michele Ps have noticed like the VW they are not the easiest battery to get at . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 The emergency jump start units you describe are only any good if the vehicle battery is discharged to the point where it will not quite turn the engine over fast enough to start it. If the engine battery is so flat that it will not turn over the engine then these units are no good at all, the flat battery will just soak up the charge from it but still be too flat to start the engine. Having said that they do have thier uses, especially if you get one with a built in compressor for tyre inflation. Every one I have seen has a cigar type socket on it so it can be used to run a TV, lapotp via 12V-*Volt converter, phone charging via inverter etc. All without touching your leisure battery capacity. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Dave , I have to confess and as you are aware I know nothing of any of this techno stuff Toy's for boy's I say . In saying that some lady's totally understand everything I am lazy to the extent that I am so worried about getting the kid's sorted I never seem to have additional time to see what it is that hubby is doing . Water gas ect ect. So I ask in ignorance this is why I love the site so much as although I cannot talk the stuff I do like trying to understand . And in the past it has been quite nice to say to my Hubby oh so& so said on the forum ........ It has helped us greatly even today when the wife my friend was waiting I told her about the habitation checks , here goes Don't you just get an inverter for what you have suggested . I know someone will laugh and as I type even I am laughing at the thought that I am probably way off line and I have made you all read this rubbish so sorry just incase *-) :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-01-14 5:28 PM The emergency jump start units you describe are only any good if the vehicle battery is discharged to the point where it will not quite turn the engine over fast enough to start it. If the engine battery is so flat that it will not turn over the engine then these units are no good at all, the flat battery will just soak up the charge from it but still be too flat to start the engine. Having said that they do have thier uses, especially if you get one with a built in compressor for tyre inflation. Every one I have seen has a cigar type socket on it so it can be used to run a TV, lapotp via 12V-*Volt converter, phone charging via inverter etc. All without touching your leisure battery capacity. D. Dave, thank you for that. I was hoping that you'd pick up this thread as I knew that you'd have the definitive answer. Presumably size comes into it as well? The Makro one for instance may not be as powerful as the Maplins' one that I posted a link to. Perhaps Machine Mart or some other firm may do a larger one?If, as has been suggested above, I were to attach this kind of battery to the flat vehicle battery and leave it for a few minutes so as to top up the vehicle battery slightly, would that help when it came to turning over the engine?I'm tempted to buy one just for the extra leisure battery facility but it would be nice to know that it can also be used to start the engine in an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Frank , A Genny Honda 2 kw PE20 took an hour that was really flat . Now as explained below I know nothing . Does this mean that if it's that flat then what you are intending on buying won't do the trick either ? Or the Genny is not the right tool ideally ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Michale was the VW connected to other vehicle and with engine running for 10+mins, if not it is not unsual for you not to be able to jump start, I have had same problem with a vectra and astra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Colin , yes it was and yes it was running for 10 minutes.... It done the same with ours outside on the drive . The VW is the biiger battery . weird. Just had a phone call 18.59 they made it ok M/H parked in he correct bay But would not turn off . Had taken the key out of the ignition shut the door and thought funny the engines still running . After putting the key in and messing around for a while he managed to stop it . So for a M/H that did not want to start it didn't want to stop either . All in a day's work A ... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 if his van would not stop then he should have put hand brake on, pressed hard on footbrake and popped it in gear, then let out clutch - it'f have stopped then. Pnce had this problem on a motorhome when the cut off for the fuel wouldn't work and fuel kept getting down to the bores. Was the only thing that would stop it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Oh, well another one for the Newark team to mend.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Forger cheap "emergency starting batteries". Not worth a candle. Just get a set of lorry size jump start leads made out of 35mm sq welding cable. As has been said the "donor" vehicle needs to be on fast tick over for ten minutes at least if the flat battery is totally pancake. Also if it is that flat its probably significantly weakened anyway. Good luck at Newark. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Clive , Will another M/H obviously similar engine size jump start it more readily ? because you are more likely to get assitance from another M/Homer . I asume you have to rev the engine ? *-) any clues if it was to happen again we could try with our Bessie thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sax Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hello Frank and others on this thread, Last year while feeling flush I obtained a gadget much as you describe at Halfords. It does everything you describe plus a bit more if I remember rightly. I keep it in the bottom of the wardrobe of my Auto sleeper permanently, just follow their instructions to top up the charge monthly. It is manufactured by Ring Electronics and cost in the region of £70. It has jump started commercial Transits, cars (both diesel and petrol) and a couple of motor caravans (2.5 and 2.8) in the past.I also use it to power a laptop as Dave does via a 12v inverter which I can set to17V. An Evesham TV is also no problem. I would not be without it. It is heavy to lug about but a good standby at times of power cuts to provide power/light indoors as well. Hope this helps other posters on this thread. Best wishes, sax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I've got four 17 A/H gel standby batteries in a plastic box that I use in an emergency. Low self discharge rate and got e'm for nought as they were ex emergency lighting batteries. I've used the to start my 3 Ltr Toyota Supra , no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 As I said earlier, if the starter battery is only partially discharged, i.e. to the point where it just doesn't crank the engine fast enough to start it, then one of these units, even a cheap one, will usually do the trick. Most of them have a 17AH battery inside but if you think of it as water you might understand it a little easier. Your engine battery is the equivalent of, say, a hundred litre tank, your jump start pack is a 17 litre tank. Your engine battery is partially drained, say down to 75% (75 litres in this analogy) but 80 is needed to start the engine. Connect up your emergency "tank" of 17 litres and you now have enough in the tank to start. But if the engine "tank" is down to 50% (50 litres) then your emergency tank of 17 litres won't fill it up enough (50+17 = 67 which is less than the 80 required). By connecting jump leads from another vehicle and then starting it you will refill the "tank" after a while. As others have said you need to run the donor engine with the jump leads connected for several minutes at a fast tickover to top up the empty tank to the required 80%. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Thank you Dave, that is a really useful analogy. I now understand exactly what is what and rather than a heavy spare battery I'll invest in a good pair of jump leads. I won't get the extra leisure battery but I can live with that.And of course I won't be carrying the extra weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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