Ducato 2.8jtd engine noise...

[benr8440667]

Hello everyone. Im new to the forum and I really hope that someone can help me. A few years ago (2013) a gentleman called Rich (tracker) posted on this forum about a problem with his ducato jtd motorhome - he experienced a ‘pinking’ type noise under specific engine conditions. This thread was back in 2013 and never really solved the issue. I am re- posting the same sort of issue five years later on in the hope that some new information may surface. I have just contacted Rich and he informed me that he had never got to the bottom of it and infact sold the van. Incidentally I have exactly the same symptoms with my 2003 ducato 2.8 jtd based motorhome. There is a pinking/light squeal type noise under load between 2000rpm and 2500rpm. It dissapears instantly when you take your foot off the throttle and doesnt seem to be there when outside of this rev range. It gets louder the more load you put the engine under. gear makes no difference other than the fact that you mainly notice it in 5th as this puts the engine at 2000-2500rpm under load most often during normal uk driving. Invairiably i change into fourth a lot when i encounter the slightest gradient rise, and subsequent engine load increase, to increase the revs above 2500rpm and thus get rid of the horrible noise! This obviously uses more fuel! I have tried to get to the bottom of it for the last two years i have had the van but had no success. it appeares to be related to fueling/combustion but thats just a guess really. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could let me know if they have any ideas regarding a sollution to this problem. It is a constant worry that it will break down and strand me and the kids somewhere! Thanks in advance and kind regards, Ben, Swanton Morley, Norfolk.

[euroserv]

Hello Ben,

 

I got your pm but decided it might be more use to others if i post my reply here...

 

This noise fits perfectly with a problem we had with 2 or 3 Ducato 2.8JTD's in around 2003-2004. The noise varied from an exaggerated whoosh, the likes of which some small turbo diesels make, and a repetitive rapping noise which you could mistake for the sort of pinking (pre-detonation) that old and worn petrol engines used to make if they were either badly timed or you were using dodgy fuel.

 

It took a lot of time to get to the bottom of but when we finally removed an exhaust manifold we found that one of the gaskets had been installed incorrectly when the engine was built. It was folded over on itself and the noise that we had been hearing was the flapping of part of the gasket and air rushing past it. There was also some visible soot around the manifold that showed where the gasses had been escaping.

 

Removing a manifold is difficult enough to do in situ, on an engine that is only 2 or 3 years old but at the age yours is, the manifold studs will be corroded and the risk of breaking one or more is very high. Removing broken studs with the engine in place will be virtually impossible. If my diagnosis is correct, i would advise leaving it alone for now because while it is annoying, it won't do any harm but if it gets worse, the best way to attack it is with the engine out. To remove and refit an engine is a 15-20 hour job.

 

BTW the other most common noise on a 2.8JTD is a knocking sound when you put the steering on full lock and is caused by the cam belt slapping on the plastic cover. This is always caused by the incorrect installation of a spacer between the engine and cam cover and can lead to the cover being worn through. The belt also gets worn too, so if you hear this after having your cam belt changed; take it back soon! We took an engine apart and replaced steering pumps and gears before figuring out what it was!

[benr8440667]

Hi Nick

Can I just say that I am overwhelmingly impressed with my initial experiences on this forum. Its so great that people like yourself are prepared to give up their precious time to help out complete strangers like myself. I have spent a lot of time over the last year or two trying to work this out- called various supposed specialists who didnt inspire confidence atall. However When Rich (tracker) mentioned you as the expert on these matters, well he wasnt wrong. Your theory about the exhaust manifold gasket seems to really fit and i am confident you have hit the nail on the head! When looking around the engine bay i have noticed a lot of soot at the back of the engine which i thought was an exhaust leak of some sort so that fits well with your theory. Also as you say, and Rich also mentioned- reliability doesnt seem to be an issue. Again this fits. I totally think that you have diagnosed my problem correctly and I am in your debt. I shall just lt drive it and not worry unless it gets worse as you suggest. Many thanks for sharing your knowlage and expertise with myself and the rest of the forum. I am really enjoying being involved in the forum already!

[laimeduck]

euroserv - 2018-02-22 BTW the other most common noise on a 2.8JTD is a knocking sound when you put the steering on full lock and is caused by the cam belt slapping on the plastic cover. This is always caused by the incorrect installation of a spacer between the engine and cam cover and can lead to the cover being worn through. The belt also gets worn too, so if you hear this after having your cam belt changed; take it back soon! We took an engine apart and replaced steering pumps and gears before figuring out what it was!

Nick hello

Very Interesting this! I do get this knocking ( I think only when on full RH lock?) and in my ignorance thought it was the CV joints or equivalent. 

I had the cambelt changed about 6 years ago at 18,000 miles and am now nearer 38,000,  but have only heard the noise very occasionally over the last 18 months?

Is there something I can easily look at to check if it is a spacer on the cam cover or if it might indeed be a CV or equivalent.

Again, in my ignorance I decided that to prevent the noise, I simply would not use full lock!

Thanks 

Jeremy

[euroserv]

You may see some plastic dust or even the belt wearing through the cover. If it has not gone through, sometimes you can get away with removing it, rotating the spacer and putting it back but if it has warped or worn through it will need to be replaced. The belt may or may not be damaged enough to worry about.

[Tracker]

Certainly I would never have suspected exhaust manifold gasket as the cause, but having had my memory jogged I did have one fail on a Talbot Express Petrol Talisman many years ago.

I can't recall what gave it away as it all seemed quite normal when standing still and only made a noise under load but it was a real pain to replace it with the engine in situ, and that was well before all this extra Eurocrud under the bonnet.

[benr8440667]

... Interestingly I replaced the timing belt on my van when I bought it and i was surprised to find that part of the cover was missing. I assumed that some sloppy mechanic had cut it off to make it easier to re-fit but perhaps it was because of a rubbing issue. who knows? Fortunatley it doesnt rub now, full lock or otherwise. I also have noticed that some moron mechanic has cut various sections out of the bell housing (presumably during some clutch change shenannigans- muppets!!)

[benr8440667]

(P.S. Rich- Thats interesting that you have experienced another exhaust manifold gasket issue that made a noise under load. Seems to be a symptom of it doesnt it)