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Oversteer


weldted

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weldted - 2018-03-04 2:42 PM

 

New shocks on order!!

I'm too late with this, but did you consider researching adjustables?

 

They are now being asked to damp a higher load than the standard design foresaw, and the spring compliance will have been altered by the addition of the air bellows, so some adjustment may be beneficial.

 

I see both Koni and SPAX are still going. Don't know if either produce a suitable product, but a chat to their technical bods would probably give an answer. Bit of a wild card, but who knows?

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Brian Kirby - 2018-03-04 5:37 PM

 

...I see both Koni and SPAX are still going. Don't know if either produce a suitable product, but a chat to their technical bods would probably give an answer. Bit of a wild card, but who knows?

 

I’m very doubtful that adjustable rear dampers would be marketed for the Peugeot Boxer chassis Ted’s Elddis is built on, nor for similar Fiat Ducato or Citroen Relay chassis. Being essentially ‘white vans’ under the skin, there's little incentive for owners to try to fine tune the settings of what is a relatively crude leaf-sprung rear suspension design, so little potential profit in marketing user-adjustable units.

 

‘Heavy duty’ non-adjustable rear dampers are advertised

 

https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/steering-suspension/suspension/shock-absorbers/fiat-ducato-peugeot-boxer-citroen-relay-rear-gas-shocks-1362556080.html

 

and Koni FSD dampers are available (at a price!) for Ducato and, presumably, Boxer - but these are also not user-adjustable.

 

http://www.autostyle.nl/catalog_en/koni-fsd-rear-shock-absorber-for-fiat-ducato-250-290-based-campers-2006-8805-1057.html

 

VB Airsuspension’s website mentions being able to offer anti-roll bars and and reinforced shock absorbers, but no technical details are given.

 

https://www.vbairsuspension.com/en/cat/20/special-parts.html

 

As I understand it, all Ted did when his motorhome’s maximum overall weight was uprated from 3700kg to 3850kg was to fit 225/70 R15 tyres to the rear wheels (replacing the original 215/70 R15 tyres) and replace the rear ‘bump stops’ with air-bellows units.

 

The three attached photos show the bump-stops and two ways to address an increased rear axle-loading - fitting helper springs (non adjustable) or air-bellows (user-adjustable). I can’t see what replacing the bump-stops on Ted’s motorhome would realistically achieve as, if the vehicle’s rear end then drooped (as one might anticipate it would) that would hardly improve the motorhome’s handling. It might be worth trying purely as an experiment, but the likelihood is that the present ‘scary’ oversteering would just become ‘terrifying'.

 

The purpose of the air bellows is to address a situation where the bump-stops are permanently ‘squashed’ when the motorhome is fully loaded, and to allow the driver to adjust the vehicle’s rear-spring rate and ride height. In his posting of 3 March 2018 10:30 PM above Ted described the procedure he followed when fitting the ‘semi-air’ system and mentions fully loading the motorhome and then adjusting the air-bellows’ inflation-pressure to return the rear ride-height to its vehicle-empty distance.

 

There’s no point batting on about Al-Ko chassis as Ted’s 2012 Elddis motorhome does not have one. It is built on a Peugeot Boxer “Tempo Libero” chassis and, although this may well equate to a Fiat Ducato ‘camping car’ chassis, there’s no certainty that’s so. The Tempo Libero chassis is mentioned in the following link, but no significant technical information is provided.

 

https://tinyurl.com/czt4vxr

 

755785991_rearsuspension.jpg.32eb3ab76816f245a48f31ce1d7941cd.jpg

194634757_helperspring.jpg.a99e44f89c983fdfcd6fe35ff1f17da5.jpg

588232287_airibellows.jpg.2217a7ad05a22aa642ec2c9611da7d2b.jpg

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A air bellow like alko or Vb on the rear can lift one tons l/R on the rear. At just one bar pressure, about their ride height. Use a profi to fit this. All DIY i seen on this forum is not allowed in belgium, unless you are a COP eu certified fitter.. Stay away from your underbody on suspension and do not touch it.. Just study how to change a tyre.
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  • 1 month later...
snowie - 2018-04-21 4:09 PM

 

weldted - 2018-03-04 2:42 PM

 

New shocks on order!!

 

It’s a long time ago now, but I’d be interested to know If you have solved the problem and are using your van safely now; hope so, sounded scary

Regards, Snowie

 

Snowie,

 

Welded posted on this thread about tyres http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/mixed-tyres/49182/#M562800

That he has changed his front tyres to match the rear and cured his understeer.

 

Keith.

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Many thanks for everyone's input have got it a lot better but not 100% but will look into it further on return to UK. Re Roly, the MRI scan showed no brain damage, it is now two months on other than a weakness in his back legs he is doing fine, he has tablets to help increase oxygen to the brain but is still running like a two year old.
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Hi Tracker, it still remains a bit of a mystery, everything was checked by two garages in France.I fitted new heavy duty shocks on the rear and went from new 225/75/r15 rear and 215/75/r15 front which had only done 7000 miles to 225 all round. Great improvement but not 100%. Wondering if rear springs may be weak but thought the semi air fitted would aliviate this to a degree, or possibly the fronts. Van has now covered 34,000 and spent most of its life running at or near max weight. Though not driven hard? Further investigation when back in UK next month. Thank you for your enquiry Ted
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weldted - 2018-04-21 11:16 PM

 

Many thanks for everyone's input have got it a lot better but not 100% but will look into it further on return to UK. Re Roly, the MRI scan showed no brain damage, it is now two months on other than a weakness in his back legs he is doing fine, he has tablets to help increase oxygen to the brain but is still running like a two year old.

 

Glad Roly is better, must be a huge relief to you.

Can you let me know what pills he is on as I too could do with a boost!

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