12V Failure Elektroblock ET220 Schaudts DT220 problems?

[jak]

I have a 2008 Dethleff Esprit which is fitted with an Electroblock ET220 rectifier and operated via a Schaudt DT220 panel. I laid the van up in late November isolating the battery via the DT220 panel. When I returned to the van in mid March and attempted to reactivate the system I got an error warning on the panel

 

'Er...1

Defect'

The '12V OFF' signal stayed on. I presumed for some unknown reason the 2 year old Exide battery had simply discharged and once on hookup the system would function normally. Alas this has not proved to be the case. I drove 180 miles to Crystal Palace and connected up the 240v to be welcomed with the same error signal on the DT220 panel. Effectively I get the '12v OFF' and 'Er...1' signs. I can after pressing the battery button on the DT220 get the standard sign of the the ouline of a van with Charge! underneath but beyond this the panel is devoid of any information and does not even recognise the fact that there is a 240V connection.

 

All of the 240V plugs function but everything else including the water/heating, refigerator, pump, etc are dead. Thus life on board is pretty desperate.

 

Can anyone cast any light on what is the most likely culperate. My suspicion is the Electroblock ET220 rectifier but any help/hints would be appreciated. Off to purchase a fan heater as the oven is a somewhat less than satisfactory heat source.

[plwsm2000]

jak sorry to hear about your woes.

I have a ET223 EBL and DT220C in my van, and although not identical, they are very similar. I was given an emergency linking connector that basically bypassed the DT220 display unit. It is just a 13way and a 10way connector with a few bits of wire connecting the two. Do you have one of these to help you out of trouble? (you remove two connectors on the EBL and plug this in instead). Its function is just to connect up the habitation battery to the frost protection valve, MS relay 1 and MS relay 2 so that everything is switched on. This is only useful if the DT220 is at fault.

Other than that, I would try disconnecting the hab battery for a few minutes and then reconnect it in case something needs resetting. Obviously disconnect the EHU and solar panels before disconnecting the hab battery.

Could you try asking someone to give the battery a bit of a charge? I am sure that the warden could help.

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Hello Jak, 'Isolating' the battery via the control panel does not do what you probably expect from reading the German translation in the manual. It doesn't isolate the battery.

It isolates the consumers in the van, like lights, Fridge, etc.from the EBL, It doesn't isolate the EBL 220 from the battery.

In this 'isolated' mode the EBL 220, is still connected and can still charge the battery if EHU is plugged in, or via the Solar 3 pin port, etc.

 

 

I am guessing that during storage the battery ran flat to the point of destruction and connecting EHU, blew the charger? See our Battery Charging Faults' webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-charging-faults.php

 

Suggest that before you do anything you replace the battery, this normally fixes the 'Power On' issue, but you will most likely have other damage to the EBL from the duff battery.

 

Double check that you refit the battery clamps the correct way around as the colours are usually different to the UK. Before you remove the old battery, use coloured Red tape to identify the Positive Clamp and Black for the Negative.

 

If a new battery doesn't fix it, come back on here and we will progress to the next step of testing.

 

Allan.

 

 

 

 

 

[jak]

That's odd Alan as I have been doing that for 6 years now! I am away from van but felt sure that is what Dethleffs state to do for close downs of upto 6 months. I suspect I will end up bringing it up north to you soon if I cant resolve it

 

 

[jak]

Thanks Plwsm, I am unsure exactly what is u/s. The hab battery is located under the passenger seat which would need to be removed and is an operation I would prefer not to do on a site. I am just hoping things are not as dire as Alan has portrayed as it will require replacement of a near new battery plus the EBL 220!!! I think all I can do is rough it out without water and heating until the weekend then leg it back to Wales where I can park up and strip it down. Providing the missus hasn't throttled me before that.

[aandncaravan]

Jak, You won't need a new EBL 220, although we do have 4 exchange rebuilt units in stock and two DT220's, as the charger in your existing Schaudt Elektroblock EBL220 will be repairable at £130.

 

Our rebuilt exchange Elektroblock EBL units cost from £220, a bit of a saving on Brownhills £580 for a new unit.

 

 

Is there any way you can check the battery voltage to see if it is dead, as it is possible that the DT220 has suffered some issue, but they are normally very reliable units?

 

[aandncaravan]

Jak, I have been trying to find a DT220 'bypass' plug to send you, to bypass the DT220 display as mentioned above by plwsm2000, but can't find one. However, I remembered I have a 'faulty' DT220 I might be able to send you for diagnostic purposes.

 

There is a fault on one of the IC's on this DT220 that gives confusing voltages and Water tank levels but at least it would allow you to turn your system 'on' and help identify where the fault lies, ruling out the DT220 display?

While voltages and levels would be false readings, it would give you lights, fridge, heating, etc.

 

 

I obviously need this broken DT220 back, even duff ones are valuable and in short supply.

 

Can the site you are on let you use their postal address so that I can send it?

 

 

 

[plwsm2000]

jak,

The emergency jumper cable was supposed to be attached to the manual (if you still have this!). I have attached a photo of my one in case you don't recognise it.

 

Phil

[aandncaravan]

Jak, because you are stranded I have done some testing and the Er 1 Defect is a fault in the DT220 that won't be triggered by just a low voltage battery.

Therefore my original diagnoses on a flat battery is off the mark, I am certain it is a DT220 issue, so if you can find your bypass plug you should be able to restore most functions.

The EBL 220 version is not quite the same as the one for the 231 photo, it is a single plug.

 

Or PM/email an address and we can send this 'faulty' DT220 unit.

 

 

 

[jak]

Alan thanks for this offer at present we are hunkered down in Crystal Palace and will be there until 5/6am Saturday morning when I intend to make a mad dash back to Wales via the M4 hoping to avoid the French going to the Arms Park and Irish/English legging it to Twickenham. This means I will have my first ever dry session at Ronnie Scott's but everything has a price!

 

I gave some slightly incorrect details as the Schaudt is actually a DT220B not the 220. I have checked the Schaudt manual and it definitely says one can isolate the electrical appliances from the battery using the '12v' and 'battery menu' buttons. Following the specified sequence the whole sytem including the DT220B panel closes down. This is what I have done over the past 5 or 6 winters and the system has kicked in each time in early spring late winter - albeit with an alarm to charge. The one thing that has recently changed on the electrical system is the incorporation of a new tracker which I suppose could have placed a larger residual demand.

 

I am unsure of the difference between the DT220 and the 220B and whether I could temporarily replace one with the other. My current thoughts are to get back to the site where I normally park up strip out and check the battery and hopefully re-charge reinstall and see if/how the system functions. So I thanks for the offer but I think its best you hold onto your 'spare' unit for the time being.

 

If the battery is u/s what replacement unit would you recommend. I think my current battery is a ES1200 Exide G110 Marine and Multifit Gel Leisure Battery 110Ah which were in very short supply 2 years ago but I managed to obtain one from Tayna who are actually in your neck of the woods.

 

Whilst probing around in the dark (no lights) I looked at the engine battery compartment and was a bit suprised to not see any evidence of a 2A fuse which I believe is associated with the D-charger. Can you think why this should have been removed. It may actually be there it was dark and its possible I overlooked it as it will be physically far smaller than either the 20A or 40A fuses.

 

Adjacent to the EBL 220 there is another small Schaudt unit with 5 connectors 2 are marked NC and have no connections the other three are wired with white purple and brown cables the middle being marled D+...... I am unable to gain easy access to the panel which is under the drivers seat and have absolutely no understanding of what its purpose is and there is no description in the Dethleff handbook.

 

 

[jak]

Well I will go to France!!! Often wondered what this was for! It is stapled to the French version of the Schaudt manual - I wasn't supplied with an English version. Not quite sure how I can utilise this but I will ponder on it now that we have obtained a fan heater which is far more efficient than an open gas oven door! Thanks Phil

[jak]

Hi Alan/Phil

Thanks for the info I have now located the bypass plug 934.156. Can you advise me how I utilise this as the manual is not too explicit on how to use to bypass the DT panel.

 

I am presuming I disconnect the 230v power supply then remove the existing connections BL10 and BL13 and use the 934.156 connectors to bridge across these two plugs. Once this is done I can repower the sytem and my lights, water, heating etc will be repowered. However I will have no control on the DT220 panel.

 

I do not know what if any life is left in the domestic battery. Will this bypass allow recharging to commence whilst on hook up?

 

When I need to move I am presuming I can simply remove the 240v supply and then remove bridging connector and replug up the Eltroblok 220-2 (note this is actually EBL 220-2 not a 220. I am consistent in my oversights!)

 

I need to close down the 12V and drain the system as it is forecast to freeze this weekend.

 

I have to go to town now so will pick up messages later this evening. At least the van is warmer now and there appears to be light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks again for your terrific support. It is re-assuring these days to know a sense of community still exists. I trust I can repay you both sometime.

[aandncaravan]

Jak, We use 'DT220' as a generic term covering all the models, including the C.

 

 

The manual does indeed tell you that 'Battery Isolation' process isolates the battery, but it then goes on to say that in this mode it will draw 4Ah from the battery each month.

You can't draw 4Ah a month from a battery that isn't connected, so something doesn't add up.

 

The manual states.

 

"2.8.1 Closing down for up to 6 months

Fully charge the living area battery before closing down the system.

The living area battery is then protected against total discharge. This only applies if the battery is intact. Once shut down, the system requires approx. 4 Ah per month.

Disconnect the living area battery from the 12V power supply if the motorhome is not used for a longer period (during the winter for example). For this, the system has a battery cut-off mechanism that isolates the living area battery from the vehicle"

 

It is confusing.

 

 

The section following the above section, 2.8.2, stipulates removal of the Battery clamps to isolate the battery, which is a strange thing to suggest if the DT 220 does it?

 

It states -

".2.8.2 Shutdown period longer than 6 months

Fully charge the living area battery before closing down the system.

Disconnect the living area battery from the 12V power supply (see Section 2.8.1).

Remove the clamps from the battery poles".

 

I think the German to English translation loses something somewhere?

 

If you look at the EBL 220 wiring diagram in your info pack (right at the back) you will see that the DT220 opens two main relays, but all that does is isolate the consumers from the EBL. You will see the batteries (both Starter and Habitation) are permanently wired.

I think the sentence in 2.8.1 where it says, "The living area battery is then protected against total discharge" is really meant to say,

"The living area devices are then isolated from discharging the battery"

 

 

As a further demonstration that the DT220 doesn't isolatate the battery, you will see that after carrying out Section 2.8.1 you will still be able to connect EHU and use a multimeter to watch the voltage at the Habitation battery rise to 14.3v.

This obviously wouldn't be possible if the batteries really had been isolated from the EBL.

 

 

The documentation is also misleading for the other Elektroblocks, like the EBL 99, where the manuals indicate that operating a rocker switch "isolates the battery", when all that happens is relays open to isolate the consumers from the EBL.

All the EBL's remain permanently connected to the batteries with some resultant drain, unless you manually remove the battery clamps.

 

 

When using the Emergency Plug to bypass the DT 220 the manual states, .

"In the event the DT 220 control and display panel is defective, the

electroblock can continue to be used if the emergency plug is inserted into

BL. 10 and BL. 13".

 

I would suggest you disconnect EHU/charging before doing this.

 

This should give you a working EBL 220 but no display.

You only need to remove the plugs when the vehicle goes into extend disuse, as it is obviously 'On' so will discharge the battery slowly.

 

The DT220 has no impact on any charging, Mains, Alternator or Solar so these will continue to function as before.

 

 

[plwsm2000]

jak,

I have not had the need to use the emergency jumper (yet!), but I would unplug the EHU and then pullout BL13 and then BL10. When you pull out BL13, this will remove power to the DT220. BL10 is for the frost protection valve (and other things) and I guess this will open and needs resetting after you plug in the emergency cable. (You might want to try plugging BL13 back in again in case the DT panel just needed a reset)

 

When BL13 is connected with the emergency cable, this should energize MS relay 1 and 2 which is the same state as if you had switched the 12V on from the DT panel.

 

On my cable as as you can see from the photo, there are 4 wires connected together - 3 on BL13 (+12V from hab. battery, MS relay 1 and MS relay 2) and 1 on BL10 (frost protection valve). There is no connection on BL10 to enable the pump (pin 2). I am not sure if there is another way of switching the pump on?

 

I might try this and maybe fit a switch on the emergency cable to activate the pump.

 

Good luck

 

Phil

[plwsm2000]

Allan,

I think the 4Ah/month must be drawn by the DT220 when it is "Off". I think I read somewhere that the DT220 still keeps track of time and remembers certain setting so it must still be doing something in the "off" state. Even so, 4AH/mth is about 5mA continuous which seems very high to me. Perhaps BL13 should be unplugged as well?

 

Just to add to my previous post - On my setup, the 12V feed to the emergency cable is via a 2A fuse mounted close to the battery (next to the main fuse). This is also used to monitor the battery voltage.If nothing happens, it might be worth checking the 2A fuse is ok.

 

Phil

[jak]

Phil/Alan

Thanks once again guys I have used the bypass - we now have lights and a fridge so the old girl is back sweating over the hob as I type.

 

You are quite correct about the pump Phil it is still non functional and at present moment we can managed without as we are relatively close to a tap and have a kettle. The heating appears to function but without a water pump I am not going to risk using it as the newly acquired fan heater from the warden is fulfilling the purpose.

 

I did try re-connecting the original plugs before introducing the bypass and the bathroom lights flashed on part way through the reconnection which threw me somewhat but once fully inserted the Panel still gave the original error and the lights all stayed off so not sure what happened there.

 

I will eave the bypass in position until we return to base this weekend and then reconnect the DT220 B and see if it functions correctly whie the system is still warm so to speak.

 

 

[plwsm2000]

jak,

Glad you are almost back to normal and thanks for confirming the pump operation - I'll go ahead and modify my emergency cable just in case I need to use it myself in the future.

 

All I will do is to add a small toggle switch from pin 2 of BL10 to the other wires (to pick up 12V power from BL13 pin 10). This should allow me to disable the water pump when it is not needed. Of course the normal pressure switch will still control the pump on/off - the new switch just enable/disables the pump in the same way as the DT panel does. The switch only needs to be low current as is just drives a relay in the EBL that powers the pump via a EBL fuse.

 

I think this is an oversight by Schaudt - a motorhome without water is no fun!.

 

Enjoy the rest of your break.

 

Phil

[jak]

Phil you are right a motorhome without water is not much fun. Are you suggesting that by connecting a wire from pin 2 BL10 to pin 10 BL13 it will power up the pump circuit? If so that would be a very logical thing to do. The warden on the site I am on would probably be interested in such an option. Indeed so would I if one had the tools and material at hand to undertake it. Is the switch essential or a simple luxury?

 

I briefly re-activated the DT 220 panel this morning after 14 hours charge but it is still giving a defect error so either the 2 year old Exide marine battery is u/s or the Schaudt panel is faulty.

[plwsm2000]

jak - 2018-03-15 11:49 AM

Are you suggesting that by connecting a wire from pin 2 BL10 to pin 10 BL13 it will power up the pump circuit?

 

jak. It should do, but I am only going on the schematic in the manual and haven't tried it myself yet. I have emailed Udo at Schaudt to confirm this. According to the schematic, the pump is enabled from either BL10 pin 2 or BL11 pin 2 (BL11-2 is not connected in my van). If needs to be connected to the other wires on the cable.

 

The switch was intended just as precaution. When we leave the van, we disable the pump just in case a leak develops and the pump empties the water tank inside the van. I was told this during the handover but it may also be in the manual.

 

I may have a couple of crimps spare (Lumberg 3111.01L) that I can send for when you get home. Just pm me your address if you want a couple.

 

 

Phil

[jak]

Thanks for the offer Phil I will bear it in mind. We left London just after midnight Friday/Saturday avioding most of the weekend snow. I managed to return to the van thismorning following the thaw, removed passenger seat and was relieved to find the battery voltage measuring 12.81volts after 4 days lay up.

 

The 2 amp blade fuse is OK so the problem seems to be the Schaudt DT220 panel which I suspect could be a bitch to resolve. A trip to north Wales, to see Alan, seems to be on the cards as the panel is fully encapsulated into the Dethleff bodywork and I woud be reluctant to attempt removal without detailed instructions for fear of damaging the unit.

 

You mentioned contacting Udo regarding powering up the pump - has he responded? It seems a very sensible option to me as the van is virtually fully functional with the pump functioning as well. Without water its a total pain.

 

Jak